Has the 70th week of Daniel begun?

[abcdef]

2 hours ago, The Light said:

I see nothing about a covenant confirmed for one week. What am I missing?

Maybe you would agree that Gal 3:17 says that Jesus confirmed the covenant. You are right that it doesn't say, "One week".

But then one might wonder, "How did Jesus confirm the covenant", and "How long did it take Jesus to confirm the Law of Moses covenant"?

Jesus confirmed the covenant with Israel by His death, resurrection, and the establishment of the kingdom of Israel that began on Pentecost, that time was 3 1/2 years from the beginning of the 70 weeks.

The covenant with Israel was broken by Israel, not by God, when Israel rejected the kingdom 3 1/2 years later. Then the gentiles were allowed in. 

------

I ask you, "How long did it take for Jesus to confirm the covenant with Israel?

When Israel rejected the confirmed covenant, didn't that end God's protection over the people of Israel, the temple, and Jerusalem so that Rome made them desolate?

 

2 hours ago, The Light said:

Galatians 3

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Can you explain how the 430 years fits in? 

The Law of Moses was a covenant with Israel for 430 years.

Within that covenant was the promise of a new and better covenant.

It was this promise of a new covenant that Jesus confirmed.

So in one sense, the new covenant was an extension of the Law of Moses since the new covenant was a promise in the Law. So in bringing a new covenant, Jesus was confirming the promises in the Law.

 

2 hours ago, The Light said:

The 7oth week did not begin in the 1st century.

Dan 9:25 says that Jesus comes after the first 69 weeks, that would be the beginning of the 70th week when He begins His ministry.

It means that the 70th week began in 30 AD and lasted until the gentiles entered the kingdom in 37 AD.

 

2 hours ago, The Light said:

How can the 70th week be complete when those of the 12 tribes have not been regrafted.

I don't think Dan 9 says anything about the 12 tribes being regrafted, do you see something there that does?

 

2 hours ago, The Light said:

The 144,000 from the 12 tribes are the first fruits

I agree that the 144,000 are firstfruits, but what are they the firstfruits of?

They are redeemed from the earth Rev 14:3. This means that they were sinners but are saved/redeemed from sin by the blood of Jesus.

This shows that they were people on earth and are already in heaven with Jesus and John in 96 AD.

It can only be that they were resurrected with Jesus in 33 AD.

That makes them the first fruits of the resurrection with Jesus.

 

2 hours ago, The Light said:

of those that will be regrafted into the olive tree.

Where does it say that the 144000 will be regrafted?

And regrafted into, what?

 

2 hours ago, The Light said:

That cannot happen until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in........pretrib rapture.

The fulness of the gentiles has already happened. It happened when Jerusalem was restored in 1967.

 

2 hours ago, The Light said:

Rom 11

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

 

2 hours ago, The Light said:

And yet when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, part of Israel will have their blindness removed.

Part of Israel has had their blindness removed. There are many children of Israel who have had their blindness removed and accepted Jesus.

It has been happening since 1967 when Jerusalem was restored to the control of Israel. 

The fullness of the gentiles has nothing to do with the 70 weeks.

--

[abcdef]

2 hours ago, The Light said:

I see nothing about a covenant confirmed for one week. What am I missing?

Maybe you would agree that Gal 3:17 says that Jesus confirmed the covenant. You are right that it doesn't say, "One week".

But then one might wonder, "How did Jesus confirm the covenant", and "How long did it take Jesus to confirm the Law of Moses covenant"?

Jesus confirmed the covenant with Israel by His death, resurrection, and the establishment of the kingdom of Israel that began on Pentecost, that time was 3 1/2 years from the beginning of the 70 weeks.

The covenant with Israel was broken by Israel, not by God, when Israel rejected the kingdom 3 1/2 years later. Then the gentiles were allowed in. 

------

I ask you, "How long did it take for Jesus to confirm the covenant with Israel?

When Israel rejected the confirmed covenant, didn't that end God's protection over the people of Israel, the temple, and Jerusalem so that Rome made them desolate?

 

2 hours ago, The Light said:

Galatians 3

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Can you explain how the 430 years fits in? 

The Law of Moses was a covenant with Israel for 430 years.

Within that covenant was the promise of a new and better covenant.

It was this promise of a new covenant that Jesus confirmed.

So in one sense, the new covenant was an extension of the Law of Moses since the new covenant was a promise in the Law. So in bringing a new covenant, Jesus was confirming the promises in the Law.

 

2 hours ago, The Light said:

The 7oth week did not begin in the 1st century.

Dan 9:25 says that Jesus comes after the first 69 weeks, that would be the beginning of the 70th week when He begins His ministry.

It means that the 70th week began in 30 AD and lasted until the gentiles entered the kingdom in 37 AD.

 

2 hours ago, The Light said:

How can the 70th week be complete when those of the 12 tribes have not been regrafted.

I don't think Dan 9 says anything about the 12 tribes being regrafted, do you see something there that does?

 

2 hours ago, The Light said:

The 144,000 from the 12 tribes are the first fruits

I agree that the 144,000 are firstfruits, but what are they the firstfruits of?

They are redeemed from the earth Rev 14:3. This means that they were sinners but are saved/redeemed from sin by the blood of Jesus.

This shows that they were people on earth and are already in heaven with Jesus and John in 96 AD.

It can only be that they were resurrected with Jesus in 33 AD.

That makes them the first fruits of the resurrection with Jesus.

 

2 hours ago, The Light said:

of those that will be regrafted into the olive tree.

Where does it say that the 144000 will be regrafted?

And regrafted into, what?

 

2 hours ago, The Light said:

That cannot happen until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in........pretrib rapture.

The fulness of the gentiles has already happened. It happened when Jerusalem was restored in 1967.

 

2 hours ago, The Light said:

Rom 11

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

 

2 hours ago, The Light said:

And yet when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, part of Israel will have their blindness removed.

Part of Israel has had their blindness removed. There are many children of Israel who have had their blindness removed and accepted Jesus.

It has been happening since 1967 when Jerusalem was restored to the control of Israel. 

The fullness of the gentiles has nothing to do with the 70 weeks.

--

[douggg]

The covenant to be confirmed for 7 years is the Mt. Sinai covenant.    As required by Moses in Deuteronomy 31:9-13 on a 7 year cycle.

The confirmation will be a big speech by the Antichrist, as the new king of Israel, thought to be messiah, following the Gog/Magog event.

The big speech will be from the temple mount and will focus on that God gave the land of Israel as the children of Israel as theirs forever.      The Antichrist may also announce the rebuilding of the temple at that time.

The 7 years are in Ezekiel 39:9.

 

 

 

[abcdef]

2 hours ago, douggg said:

The covenant to be confirmed for 7 years is the Mt. Sinai covenant.    As required by Moses in Deuteronomy 31:9-13 on a 7 year cycle.

The confirmation will be a big speech by the Antichrist, as the new king of Israel, thought to be messiah, following the Gog/Magog event.

The big speech will be from the temple mount and will focus on that God gave the land of Israel as the children of Israel as theirs forever.      The Antichrist may also announce the rebuilding of the temple at that time.

The 7 years are in Ezekiel 39:9.

The context of Dan 9:25-27 shows the events are happening in the time surrounding the arrival of Jesus the Prince and the 30 AD-70 AD period.

The events mentioned are the 69 weeks, the arrival of Jesus after the 69 weeks at the beginning of the 70th week, the confirmation of the covenant, the death of Jesus, the end of the 7 years, and the desolation of Jerusalem.

All of those events took place in the 1st century and were related to the arrival of Prince Jesus in 30 AD.

Since they are all in the time surrounding the arrival of Jesus in 30 AD, to try to make them future takes them out of the context. 

--

[douggg]

28 minutes ago, abcdef said:

The context of Dan 9:25-27 shows the events are happening in the time surrounding the arrival of Jesus the Prince and the 30 AD-70 AD period.

The events mentioned are the 69 weeks, the arrival of Jesus after the 69 weeks at the beginning of the 70th week, the confirmation of the covenant, the death of Jesus, the end of the 7 years, and the desolation of Jerusalem.

All of those events took place in the 1st century and were related to the arrival of Prince Jesus in 30 AD.

Since they are all in the time surrounding the arrival of Jesus in 30 AD, to try to make them future takes them out of the context. 

--

Jesus arrived in Jerusalem in John 12-15, as the king of Israel messiah.   4 days later was crucified.

Jesus did not spend 7 years confirming the covenant of Daniel 9:27.   

 

[abcdef]

51 minutes ago, douggg said:

Jesus arrived in Jerusalem in John 12-15, as the king of Israel messiah.   4 days later was crucified.

 

51 minutes ago, douggg said:

Jesus did not spend 7 years confirming the covenant of Daniel 9:27.   

Gal 3:17, says that Jesus confirmed the covenant.

I'll ask you, how much time did Jesus take while confirming the covenant?

[douggg]

2 hours ago, abcdef said:

 

Gal 3:17, says that Jesus confirmed the covenant.

I'll ask you, how much time did Jesus take while confirming the covenant?

One day, the day he redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us, the day that he was crucified.

Galaatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

 

[The Light]

14 hours ago, abcdef said:

Maybe you would agree that Gal 3:17 says that Jesus confirmed the covenant. You are right that it doesn't say, "One week".

But then one might wonder, "How did Jesus confirm the covenant", and "How long did it take Jesus to confirm the Law of Moses covenant"?

Jesus confirmed the covenant with Israel by His death, resurrection, and the establishment of the kingdom of Israel that began on Pentecost, that time was 3 1/2 years from the beginning of the 70 weeks.

The covenant with Israel was broken by Israel, not by God, when Israel rejected the kingdom 3 1/2 years later. Then the gentiles were allowed in. 

I would think that Israel rejected the Messiah at His crucifixion, not 3 and a half years later.

14 hours ago, abcdef said:

------

I ask you, "How long did it take for Jesus to confirm the covenant with Israel?

When Israel rejected the confirmed covenant, didn't that end God's protection over the people of Israel, the temple, and Jerusalem so that Rome made them desolate?

I don't think we are talking about the same covenant. The covenant that the Antichrist will confirm is a specific 7 year covenant with many.

14 hours ago, abcdef said:

 

The Law of Moses was a covenant with Israel for 430 years.

I am not understanding the 430 years. The covenant was made around 1446 BC? I don't see how the 430 years fits in. Of course the scripture say 430 years so that's a fact.........but I am not getting it.

14 hours ago, abcdef said:

 

Dan 9:25 says that Jesus comes after the first 69 weeks, that would be the beginning of the 70th week when He begins His ministry.

It means that the 70th week began in 30 AD and lasted until the gentiles entered the kingdom in 37 AD.

I don't agree with this. The 70th week occurs in the end times when people run to and fro and knowledge is increased.

14 hours ago, abcdef said:

 

I don't think Dan 9 says anything about the 12 tribes being regrafted, do you see something there that does?

Daniel 9 says that 70 weeks are determined upon the people of Daniel. During the time of the end, the dragon will seek to destroy the woman Israel, but she will be in a place of protection for 3.5 years. At that time the dragon will go after the womans seed who are the 12 tribes across the earth.

14 hours ago, abcdef said:

 

I agree that the 144,000 are firstfruits, but what are they the firstfruits of?

They are the first fruits of the second harvest. The fathers of Israel were supposed to be the first fruits of the first harvest, but they served Baalpeor and then would not be the first harvest. The Gentiles will become the first harvest. The fig tree has two harvests.

Hosea 9

10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

14 hours ago, abcdef said:

They are redeemed from the earth Rev 14:3. This means that they were sinners but are saved/redeemed from sin by the blood of Jesus.

They are redeemed for the earth and are the first fruits of the second harvest.

14 hours ago, abcdef said:

This shows that they were people on earth and are already in heaven with Jesus and John in 96 AD.

It can only be that they were resurrected with Jesus in 33 AD.

That makes them the first fruits of the resurrection with Jesus.

The 144,000 are redeemed from the earth in the future.

14 hours ago, abcdef said:

 

Where does it say that the 144000 will be regrafted?

And regrafted into, what?

Revelation 7

2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

Romans 11

24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

14 hours ago, abcdef said:

 

The fulness of the gentiles has already happened. It happened when Jerusalem was restored in 1967.

 

14 hours ago, abcdef said:

 

 

Part of Israel has had their blindness removed. There are many children of Israel who have had their blindness removed and accepted Jesus.

It has been happening since 1967 when Jerusalem was restored to the control of Israel. 

You are confusing the times of the Gentiles with the fullness of the Gentiles.

Luke 21

24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Romans 11

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

14 hours ago, abcdef said:

The fullness of the gentiles has nothing to do with the 70 weeks.

--

The fullness of the Gentiles will occur in the 70th week.

[abcdef]

8 hours ago, douggg said:

One day, the day he redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us, the day that he was crucified.

Galaatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Gal 3:13, Yes Jesus, redeemed us from the Law when He was crucified on that day.

 

8 hours ago, douggg said:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Gal 3:14, Another reason that He was crucified was to bring the gentiles into the kingdom for salvation through faith.

----

Rom 15:8, "Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

It wasn't just being crucified. It was confirming all the promises to the fathers. 

Being born at the correct time, starting His ministry at the right time, performing all the miracles, resurrecting from the dead, bringing the kingdom, and bringing the gospel to the gentile nations. 

All of these things were necessary to confirm the promises to the fathers. 

If even one thing was left out, a prophecy that was unfulfilled, it would make the promise false. So all the prophecies fulfilled were confirming the promises to the fathers.

 

V. 9, And that the Gentiles might glorify God for His mercy as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name." 

Even the gentiles entering the kingdom was a confirming of the Law, because the Law was prophecy that the gentiles would enter the kingdom.

Without the fulfillment of the promises (Jesus comes at the beginning of the 70th week), the cutting off in the middle of the week, the resurrection, the establishment of the Pentecost kingdom by Jesus, and the gentiles entering in, the covenant would not be confirmed.

So from the beginning of the 70th week until the end of the week the covenant was confirming the promises to the fathers and the Law.

If one prophecy was unfulfilled, it would mean that the covenant was not confirmed.

So the confirmation of the Law and promises to the fathers took 7 years to completely be confirmed, not just one day on the cross.

At the end of the 7 years the majority of Israel broke the covenant and the gentiles entered into the kingdom.

--

[abcdef]

34 minutes ago, The Light said:

I would think that Israel rejected the Messiah at His crucifixion, not 3 and a half years later.

I can agree with you that Israel rejected Jesus at His crucifixion. The rulers of Israel rejected Jesus.

The general population expected that Jesus would be their king in a material would at that time. One example might be the triumphal entry into Jerusalem some days earlier. 

Then the rulers came at night and arrested Him when the people were sleeping. They were not aware of it until later.

---

The crucifixion is not the reason that Jerusalem fell to the Romans.

It was because the majority of Israel rejected the new covenant that began on Pentecost.

After Pentecost even those leaders of Israel who rejected Jesus at the trial and crucifixion could have repented and been baptized. They would have been saved, received God's blessings, and salvation. But they didn't and fought against the gospel kingdom to the point when they began killing Christians.

By their lies the majority of Israel rejected the kingdom, began attacking the kingdom, which led to the desolation of Jerusalem and the temple.

Had Israel accepted the Pentecost gospel kingdom, Jerusalem and the temple might not have been destroyed and remained standing to this day. 

The abomination of desolation was the rejection of the new gospel covenant.

As a consequence of that rejection, Roman armies under Titus desolated the city.

-----

When Israel was faithful, God's protection was over the children of Israel and Jerusalem. 

When Israel was unfaithful, God withdrew His protection over the city and brought gentile armies to attack the children of Israel and Jerusalem as seen many times in the OT.

When God withdrew His protection over Jerusalem, it was like heaven departing like a scroll being rolled up. (Rev 6:14)

 

34 minutes ago, The Light said:

I don't think we are talking about the same covenant. The covenant that the Antichrist will confirm is a specific 7 year covenant with many.

If the Dan 9:25-27 prophecy takes longer that 70 weeks, then it can not be true.

You are extending the time of the 70 beyond 1900 years which is making the promise false.

There is no language in the text the indicates any timeline gap.

 ---

The prince is Jesus. Jesus/God brought the armies of Rome and destroyed Jerusalem and the temple.

The thought would be that the people of the Prince are the Roman armies under the command of God/Jesus. Under the command and directed by God's will the Roman armies are the people of the Prince Jesus/God.

Titus destroyed the city as the Antichrist, but only was able to because of the will of Jesus/God withdrawing His protection over the city.

 

34 minutes ago, The Light said:

I am not understanding the 430 years. The covenant was made around 1446 BC? I don't see how the 430 years fits in. Of course the scripture say 430 years so that's a fact.........but I am not getting it.

Exodus 12:40-41

 

34 minutes ago, The Light said:

I don't agree with this. The 70th week occurs in the end times when people run to and fro and knowledge is increased.

Dan 12:4, I'm going to agree with you, in part.

The "end" in Dan 12:4 is the end of the prophecies in Dan 11 & 12.

Persia, Greece, and the Roman Empire's scattering of Israel in 70 AD ish Dan 12:7 are what it is talking about.

The running to and fro has always happened, but is not a confirmation that the passage is about our modern times. In Roman times it also seemed that people were traveling farther and faster due the Roman road system.

As for the increase in knowledge, it could be seen as an increase in spiritual knowledge of God. Jesus did reveal God to Israel and the gentile nations by his teachings and by the gift of the Holy Spirit.

So the verse doesn't confirm that it is about our modern times, but points to a time when Michael, Jesus the Prince, comes to reveal God and that was at the beginning of the 70th week, 30 AD.

 

34 minutes ago, The Light said:

Daniel 9 says that 70 weeks are determined upon the people of Daniel.

The 70 weeks are 490 years. Not over 1900 years. If the 70 weeks goes beyond 490 years then it is false.

 

34 minutes ago, The Light said:

During the time of the end, the dragon will seek to destroy the woman Israel,

The dragon is the 4th beast of Dan 7 and the iron of the statue in Dan 2, the Roman nation.

Rome has attacked the children of Israel since 63 BC.

According to Dan 12:7, the time of the end begins when the people of Israel are scattered into the gentile nations. That happened in the 70 AD ish time period. 

One thought might be that the little scroll that was sealed until the scattering of Israel is the 7 sealed book of the Revelation. That scroll was opened in 96 AD ish by Jesus in front of John. Dan 12:4 & 9.

Since the 7 sealed book was opened in 96 AD, it means that all the prophecies of Dan 11 & 12 had been fulfilled and the time of the end had begun already.

 

34 minutes ago, The Light said:

but she will be in a place of protection for 3.5 years. At that time the dragon will go after the womans seed who are the 12 tribes across the earth.

The Roman dragon beast nation, Dan 7, did chase Israel into the gentile nations in 70 AD ish.

It wasn't 3 1/2 years, it was 1900 years ish, showing that the 3 1/2 times is not years, but symbolic of the time when Israel is scattered in the gentile nations.

 

34 minutes ago, The Light said:

They are the first fruits of the second harvest. The fathers of Israel were supposed to be the first fruits of the first harvest, but they served Baalpeor and then would not be the first harvest. The Gentiles will become the first harvest. The fig tree has two harvests.

Hosea 9

10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

They are redeemed for the earth and are the first fruits of the second harvest.

The 144,000 are redeemed from the earth in the future.

Revelation 7

2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

Romans 11

24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

 

You are confusing the times of the Gentiles with the fullness of the Gentiles.

Luke 21

24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Romans 11

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

The fullness of the Gentiles will occur in the 70th week.