Has the 70th week of Daniel begun?

[The Light]

On 12/11/2024 at 9:57 AM, JoeCanada said:

The 1st earthquake is at the 6th seal:

"I looked when He broke the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake ....and every mountain and island were moved out of their places"

The next earthquake is at the 7th trumpet:

"There were flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder and an earthquake and a great hailstorm"                                                                                                                                                                                                           The final earthquake is at the 7th bowl:

There is an earthquake at the 6th seal.

Then there are earthquakes at the 7th trumpet and 7th bowl........both of which happen in the 7th seal...........one year Day of the Lord........wrath of God.

On 12/11/2024 at 9:57 AM, JoeCanada said:

 

So, as a person can see, there is a progression to the severity of the judgments. They are not the same, they intensify and other elements are added.

I know. You can see that with all the trumpets compared to the bowls. The bowls are more intense. And both happen in the 7th seal, Day of the Lord.

On 12/11/2024 at 9:57 AM, JoeCanada said:

Scripture shows a consecutive judgment of seals, followed by trumpets, followed by bowls. 

Scripture does not show a concurrent judgment of seals, trumpets and bowls, happening at the same time.

No. Scripture shows the first six seals occur and are followed by the 7th seal Day of the Lord.

In the seventh seal, Day of the Lord we get two views of events that happen in the 7th seal which are the trumpets and bowls. The bowls are more intense and yet both the trumpets and bowls happen during the 7th seal.

I'm not sure why you don't see that when kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord at the 7th trumpet, Jesus has returned and set up the millennial kingdom. It is the time of judgment where the dead that remain in the earth are raised. Armageddon is over....wrath is over..........and Christ sets up His kingdom on the earth.

When you are reading Rev 13 and 14 you are back in the 1st 6 seals. Christ has already set up His kingdom on the earth. When you are reading Revelation 15 you are in Revelation 7. When you are reading Revelation 16 you are in the 7th seal.

On 12/11/2024 at 9:57 AM, JoeCanada said:

 

 

[Triton57]

13 hours ago, The Light said:

I guess you are unaware that you are proving my point. You are showing that one day is sometimes one year........as in the Day of the Lord is one year long. 

As for the acceptable year of the Lord..........that has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the Day of the Lord as the day of the Lord is a year of wrath and vengeance.

Additionally, the Day of the Lord begins at the sixth as we can see in Isaiah 34 and Revelation 6

4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

8 For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

Revelation 6

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

We both agree that the wrath of God comes just after the seventh seal, which is just after the sixth seal. More specifically, I believe the sixth seal and His coming are likely tied to Yom Teruah and so from the sixth seal to the first trumpet would likely be a matter of 9 or less days before the beginning of the wrath on Yom Kippur.

We both agree that the bride is caught up before the wrath of God and at the same time Israel will remain on the Earth as depicted in Revelation 7.

We both agree that the Messianic Kingdom cannot begin until after the wrath is completed, and indeed we see Armageddon coming after the completion of the wrath of God where Yeshua destroys the gathered armies and has no more who try to come against Him. He has taken the kingdoms of this world and will establish His kingdom from a much different Jerusalem that was just utterly destroyed.

So it seems to me that where we differ is pretty much just the length of the day of the Lord. You point to Isaiah 34:4 as the sixth seal and Isaiah 34:8 as the day of the Lord's wrath "and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion" indicating that the wrath lasts for a year.

So in your view, when within the 70th week does the sixth seal take place?

Quote

So again, your contention that the acceptable year of the Lord happened when Christ came has absolutely nothing whatsoever to with the Day of the Lord........when the Lord returns for one year of vengeance when the 7th seal is opened.

Now you have change from the acceptable year of the Lord to the acceptable day TO Lord. Neither has anything to do with the Day of the Lord.

I simply misunderstood your reference to Isaiah 61. My quote of Isaiah 58 was a point about the year of jubilee being referred to by Christ in the first century, not anything to do with comparing a day to a year. You stated:

Quote

The day of the Lord is one year.

Isaiah 61

2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

The day of the Lord is vengeance and destruction. It is dreadful. Does that sound like any part of the millennial kingdom?

Your point is the day of the Lord is one year and then you posted a passage about the acceptable year of the Lord and the day of vengeance of our God.

I thought you were connecting the year of the Lord to the future day of vengeance of our God, which I was pointing out was fulfilled and so the year reference there didn't seem valid to put in the timing of the future wrath since Yeshua said it was fulfilled in the first century, that's all. I apologize for misunderstanding your point.

Edited December 14, 2024 by Triton57

[Triton57]

13 hours ago, The Light said:

In the seventh seal, Day of the Lord we get two views of events that happen in the 7th seal which are the trumpets and bowls. The bowls are more intense and yet both the trumpets and bowls happen during the 7th seal.

I suppose in my view, each time a seal, trumpet, or bowl is mentioned, an event happens.

Revelation 8:1-2
And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets. ...

It sounds then like in your view that the seventh seal contains the seven trumpets, thunders, and bowls, that the whole of the rest of God's wrath is the event of the seventh seal?

Given that the seven seals are keeping a scroll closed and that scroll would seem to contain the judgments written on it, I can see how one might consider the seventh seal to be the final event that brings about everything after.

Revelation 5:1-5
And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

So Yeshua was worthy to open the book, which required loosing the seven seals to do so.

Ezekiel 2:8-10
But thou, son of man, hear what I say unto thee; Be not thou rebellious like that rebellious house: open thy mouth, and eat that I give thee. And when I looked, behold, an hand [was] sent unto me; and, lo, a roll of a book [was] therein; And he spread it before me; and it [was] written within and without: and [there was] written therein lamentations, and mourning, and woe.

The apparent purpose of the scroll Yeshua opens would seem to have a parallel here.

Revelation 10:1-2, 8-11
And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow [was] upon his head, and his face [was] as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire: And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and [his] left [foot] on the earth, ... And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go [and] take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth. And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take [it], and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey. And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter. And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings."

We see before the wrath comes in Revelation 7 that the harm and wind to the earth and sea is held back before the seventh seal is opened. It's interesting that this angel with the little book is standing on the earth and sea that will be harmed by the wrath of God. Furthermore, John is told to eat it and it will be sweet in his mouth but bitter in his stomach. This always makes me think of the initial pleasure we feel when justice is served, but once we digest what that means in terms of the severity of God's wrath, it's sweetness turns to bitterness.

This idea of judgement and the scroll or book written on both sides containing lamentation and woe that is sealed would seem to be complimented by the idea of Yeshua's garment sprinkled with blood at His return to establish His kingdom and conquer the armies gathered. They got that way because He was the only one worthy or able to carry it out.

Isaiah 63:1-6
Who [is] this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this [that is] glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save. Wherefore [art thou] red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat? I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people [there was] none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment. For the day of vengeance [is] in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come. And I looked, and [there was] none to help; and I wondered that [there was] none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me. And I will tread down the people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my fury, and I will bring down their strength to the earth.

That scroll written on both sides full of lamentation and woe was sealed and only able to be opened by one worthy to carry out the judgements contained therein. Yeshua's own arm of strength brought salvation and upheld him in His wrath and He treaded the winepress alone.

However, it was all seven seals that were accomplishing the same thing, keeping the scroll written on both sides closed. And it was only the ability to open the scroll once all the seals were broken that brought the wrath. The wrath was not contained in the one of seven seals keeping the scroll closed, the wrath was contained in the contents of the scroll itself.

Each of the six previous seals were broken, then something happened. In the case of the seventh, there was silence in heaven for about 1/2 hour. In my view, that was the event, the quiet before the storm. It was after that the seven angels were handed their trumpets, presumably to begin declaring the lamentations and woes written in the book that is now opened by the only One worthy to carry it out.

[The Light]

9 hours ago, Triton57 said:

 

So in your view, when within the 70th week does the sixth seal take place?

 

Now that's a very good question.  

The 6th seal will likely begin on the Feast of Trumpets on the 5th day of the 7oth week.

[Triton57]

13 hours ago, The Light said:

Now that's a very good question.  

The 6th seal will likely begin on the Feast of Trumpets on the 5th day of the 7oth week.

Do you mean the 5th day or the 5th year, or perhaps you refer to the day for a year? The 5th day would leave 6 years after the 1 year of wrath and even the 5th year would leave another year after the wrath is complete before the 70th week is completed.

Given the 70th week's completion of Daniel 9:24 in regards to Daniel's people, what would remain to be completed in the 6 or 1 day/year of the 70th week in your view?

[The Light]

6 hours ago, Triton57 said:

Do you mean the 5th day or the 5th year, or perhaps you refer to the day for a year? 

Yes, a day for a year.

6 hours ago, Triton57 said:

 

The 5th day would leave 6 years after the 1 year of wrath and even the 5th year would leave another year after the wrath is complete before the 70th week is completed. 

Yes, the 5th year will leave another year after wrath.

6 hours ago, Triton57 said:

 

Given the 70th week's completion of Daniel 9:24 in regards to Daniel's people, what would remain to be completed in the 6 or 1 day/year of the 70th week in your view?

The feasts of God are a shadow of things to come. The Church must be raptured and that will occur after the 70th week begins. Then the Feast of Trumpets will happen at the sixth seal where the 12 tribes across the earth is raptured and then the 1 year wrath. That would leave the day of atonement.