Max Lucado - Grace is just Christ in us!

[Vine Abider]

23 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

I am not sure that I can agree with that by studying the scriptures all around and not on something that can be taken out of context.  

This is not what Jesus and his disciples said. Definitely not this way. Not as you have put it forwards. In some way but not in this way. 

Two verses showing grace = Christ coming to us.

“And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen His glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.”  ‭‭John‬ ‭1‬:‭14‬ ‭ESV‬‬

“For from His fullness we have all received, grace upon grace. For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.”  ‭‭John‬ ‭1‬:‭16‬-‭17‬ ‭ESV‬‬

And another equates grace to the Lord in our spirit: "The Lord be with your spirit. Grace be with you." 2 Tim 4:22

[Your closest friendnt]

2 hours ago, AdHoc said:

There are two givings of the Holy Spirit. The first is based on faith and was realized on resurrection day (Jn.20:22). This was the indwelling Spirit for LIFE spoken of in John 7:39. The second is based on water Baptism (Act.2:38) and is for POWER to minister (Lk.24:49, Act.1:8). It was given on Pentecost to fulfill Joel. The One for LIFE is INSIDE a man (pleroo - Gk.) and the Spirit for POWER is UPON the christian like a policeman's uniform. the Greek for this is "pletho" and mean "furnished" or equipped".

There are four areas that will enjoy the ministry of the gospel - Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria and the uttermost parts of the earth. But false teachers would abound and so the Lord wanted to establish a precedent. He would connect the giving of the Holy Spirit FOR POWER with Jerusalem and the Apostles. Pentecost was attached to the Apostles, but not Samaria. So before the Holy Spirit was given for POWER, even though they had been Baptized in Jesus' Name, the Lord wanted the Apostles identified with its giving. Then a second problem arose. At Cornelius' House the sequence was reversed because Peter was resisting relations with the Gentiles. The dispute was hot and heavy in Chapter 10, but the giving of the Holy Spirit sealed God's purpose. But a precedent had been set that contradicted Acts 2:38 - that is, Baptism FIRST and then receiving the Holy Spirit.

So God allows Apollos to bring the wrong Baptism. The result ... no Holy Spirit. Then Paul arrives and corrects this by Baptism in the name of Jesus. The number 12 is given to show the total number of God's people. That is, the events at Cornelius were, and remain, an exception for ever. The rule was re-established. Baptism in the name of Jesus FIRST and then the "furnishing" of the Holy Spirit would come - and all this by an Apostle.

In this way the giving of the Holy Spirit for POWER was forever attached to Jerusalem and the Apostles and the events at Jerusalem forever. No Tibetian Guru, or South American voodoo priest could ever claim that he had started things. Not even Rome can claim that.

John 20:21-22 NIV  21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.” 

This event took place not the first but the second time Jesus stands amongs them right after the resurrection and after Jesus said as the Father has sent me I am sending you. And with that he breathed on them and he said received the Holy Spirit. 

Thomas was not among them but Jesus also sent Thomas. 

We do not see that it happened again for the best days till the time of his going to the Heavenly Father.  

The point Jesus made is that he sent that He is the one to sent them and He breathed in them of his Spirit. 

Jesus meant something by saying those words before he breathed on them. 

He said that I am sending you as the New MAN in Christ not as a man under the Law in the Sinai Covenant. 

He also was saying to them that the Father has made him Lord over those who believe in me and Judge over them that they are accountable to him and not to the Father. 

In this event we see how Jesus informed us about the end of the old system of the Jew and Gentile, this is about the old is out and the New has began, exactly what he had promised to Nicodemus. 

That from now on their inheritance is in Him. They are in the Born from above Nation of God in Jesus Christ. 

Later he told them that He can't baptized them in the promised Holy Spirit because He does not have it yet. That the Father has not given it to him yet. 

That He must leave and go to the Father first. That as long as He remains with them the promised Holy Spirit cannot come to earth. 

After his ascension Jesus said that the Father will sent the Holy Spirit in his name. 

In the Day of Pentecost we see that happening for the first time. 

This is why the prophetic was foretold that this will happen with fire. As we see the Gospel of Jesus Christ was spread with the fire of the Holy Spirit. 

This is why Jesus told his disciples "do not do anything on your own, abide on the vine and in my words wait for the power from above. 

The Gentiles were uncircumcised. This is why Peter said that after what happened can everyone forbit to baptized uncircumcised Gentile believers. 

Peter with his actions he followed the guidance of the Holy Spirit and he understood that Circumcision is not in the way. For the Jews it was for a cultural thing a community acceptance. 

An unbelieving Rabbi under the Law performs the Circumcision on Christian children. This is because the Jewish faith it requires for the doing of the traditions without the confession of faith as in the Christian faith where confession of faith in Jesus Christ is everything. Is above all.

[Your closest friendnt]

3 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Two verses showing grace = Christ coming to us.

“And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen His glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.”  ‭‭John‬ ‭1‬:‭14‬ ‭ESV‬‬

“For from His fullness we have all received, grace upon grace. For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.”  ‭‭John‬ ‭1‬:‭16‬-‭17‬ ‭ESV‬‬

And another the equates grace to the Lord in our spirit: "The Lord be with your spirit. Grace be with you." 2 Tim 4:22

Jesus invites everyone in the world to believe in him as they are. Jesus Christ wants people to believe as they are. Jesus Christ accepts their faith in him as they are. Maybe the religious Christian groups they do not but Jesus Christ does. 

John in chapter one verse 14th gives his witness and the witness of the other disciples that from the beginning Jesus was full of grace to the people before the Cross. That he was forgiving and reached out to the lost sheep of Israel that he went to them to where they were to healed them and forgive their sins. 

We have seen His glory as the only Son of the Father. Which was in the works Jesus was doing. He was the truth Son of God because in the prophetic was foretold that they will know the truth Son of God by the works he will do.

Jesus told the people if there is something that confused you, set it aside and believe in me because of the works that I do.

This is why many they said that we believe in him because of the works he does in response to the scribes who were reason why Jesus is not the Anointed one.

Jesus said to the disciples of John to wait and that day he healed all kinds of sick people all day. And he said to John's disciples to go and tell John about what they witness. 

Nicodemus said that you are the Son of God who was to come because the works you do testify about you. As it was written in the prophetic about the one God had promised to send.  John said everything Jesus did even before the Cross it was his love for the people all of them. Without any burden on them and without looking on their background without any prejudice. Full of grace before the Cross. 

And full of grace to all.

In contrast to the Law of Moses.  

Jesus Christ in his love took the chastising for our sins in his body.

God loves us so much by making Jesus the Propritiation for our sins. 

 

[BibleStudent100]

18 hours ago, missmuffet said:

I have seen some things from Max Lucado that I have liked.

I had never heard of this preacher and I went to youtube to watch a little of his ministry.  He seems like a very kind and loving pastor.

[Vine Abider]

Another great verse showing that grace = Christ in us: "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit."  Phil 4:23

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, Vine Abider said:

Another great verse showing that grace = Christ in us: "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit."  Phil 4:23

Paul did not say that Jesus Christ has make his abode in your hearts. 

Paul is making a simple greeting that the grace of Jesus Christ be with you. 

The favor of Jesus Christ be upon you.

And how does the grace of Jesus Christ may be with us.

The grace of Jesus Christ, the help of Jesus through the Holy Spirit to help us to grow and become strong in the faith and in the knowledge of his will for us. 

Helping us with everything we need and without any prejudice to where we come from and without any prejudice of how rich we are and how intelligent we are. 

Removing guilty feelings and shame from us, cleansing us from the polution of the world. 

If you loved me and keep my commandments then me and my Father will come and make our abode in you. 

Paul had obey and continued to obey what the Lord was asking from him.

Go there and go to another mission and do and say what and how the Holy Spirit will quide you. 

Paul is speaking about him self because people thought that he is not following the Lord. When the prophet told him this what they will do to you in Jerusalem. Paul knowing that the Lord had told him to go to Jerusalem without any doubt March towards Jerusalem and the people of the church were thinking in their own that Jesus was trying to stop Paul from going to Jerusalem. That's how they perceived it and they tried to stop Paul. 

But Paul spoke the words of Jesus Christ and he said to them that this is the last time to see one another. 

And Paul continue into Jerusalem as Jesus had asked him and Paul obeyed. 

Paul obeyed what Jesus was asking him, even in the knowledge that he will be arrested. 

This was the comand of Jesus to Paul and he obeyed him.

This is why Paul said that Jesus Christ has made his abode in Jim. Paul knew that because Jesus began to quide him from within. Jesus was speaking to him from within. Not just the Holy Spirit but also Jesus was quiding from his heart because He had made his abode in his heart. 

Jesus or the Holy Spirit have made their above in Him and Jesus let him know. 

And Paul began to say that I am an Apostle of Jesus Christ, He is the one to chart my mission and He is the one to tell me what is next. 

[Vine Abider]

9 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Paul did not say that Jesus Christ has make his abode in your hearts. 

Paul is making a simple greeting that the grace of Jesus Christ be with you. 

The favor of Jesus Christ be upon you.

And how does the grace of Jesus Christ may be with us.

The grace of Jesus Christ, the help of Jesus through the Holy Spirit to help us to grow and become strong in the faith and in the knowledge of his will for us. 

Helping us with everything we need and without any prejudice to where we come from and without any prejudice of how rich we are and how intelligent we are. 

Removing guilty feelings and shame from us, cleansing us from the polution of the world. 

If you loved me and keep my commandments then me and my Father will come and make our abode in you. 

Paul had obey and continued to obey what the Lord was asking from him.

Go there and go to another mission and do and say what and how the Holy Spirit will quide you. 

Paul is speaking about him self because people thought that he is not following the Lord. When the prophet told him this what they will do to you in Jerusalem. Paul knowing that the Lord had told him to go to Jerusalem without any doubt March towards Jerusalem and the people of the church were thinking in their own that Jesus was trying to stop Paul from going to Jerusalem. That's how they perceived it and they tried to stop Paul. 

But Paul spoke the words of Jesus Christ and he said to them that this is the last time to see one another. 

And Paul continue into Jerusalem as Jesus had asked him and Paul obeyed. 

Paul obeyed what Jesus was asking him, even in the knowledge that he will be arrested. 

This was the comand of Jesus to Paul and he obeyed him.

This is why Paul said that Jesus Christ has made his abode in Jim. Paul knew that because Jesus began to quide him from within. Jesus was speaking to him from within. Not just the Holy Spirit but also Jesus was quiding from his heart because He had made his abode in his heart. 

Jesus or the Holy Spirit have made their above in Him and Jesus let him know. 

And Paul began to say that I am an Apostle of Jesus Christ, He is the one to chart my mission and He is the one to tell me what is next. 

Sorry, brother, but I got completely lost in what you were trying to convey - can you restate, in one paragraph perhaps? 

[AdHoc]

20 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

John 20:21-22 NIV  21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.” 

This event took place not the first but the second time Jesus stands amongs them right after the resurrection and after Jesus said as the Father has sent me I am sending you. And with that he breathed on them and he said received the Holy Spirit.

Perhaps you could read the text again. Here it is;

11 But Mary stood without at the sepulchre weeping:
...
14 And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.
...
16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master. 17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
...
19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. 20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord. 21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost (Jn.20:11–22).

Besides "the same day" I have made red the fact that even before our Lord had breathed into the disciples, He called His father THEIR Father. This is to show that a BIRTH had taken place already outside of time. You cannot call anyone "YOUR Father" unless you were born to Him. John 12:24 shows that the many grains of wheat, like Jesus (same Father), occurred at His death. And so also the Type - Eve. She is taken from Adam while he slept.

That means, of course, that our Lord Jesus ascended to the Father on resurrection day and returned that evening. He had two duties before the Father. Hebrews says He had to present His blood to the Father, and Colossians has Him as the Firstfruits from the dead. That is why Mary may not touch Him. He is FIRST to present Himself to the Lord of the harvest.

Man has, among others, two great problems. To fulfill Genesis 1:26-28 man needs 1. God's nature and life to be like Him, and 2. he needs God's power because he was to subdue and rule angels. Man is made lower than the angels. Before the fall the Tree of Life would have covered both. But once sin came in God separated them so that the various servants of the Lord like the prophets and Samson could receive the Spirit for POWER "UPON" them. Not so the INDWELLING Spirit. As John 7:39 and 14:2 say, for man to get the Spirit INWARDLY needed "preparation". Sin and death must be conquered before Christ was administered to man.

As @Vine Abider has said, this aspect of God's economy is not taught much, but it is crucial to God's plan.

[Your closest friendnt]

@AdHoc

Jesus indeed ascended to the Father to show himself and descended back on the same day.

I would leave the other issue  open because Jesus did not breathe on Mary or on Peter before he showed him self to the Father", but after. The Father had to see him first and I do not want to speculate the reason why. 

Definitely Abraham and John the Baptist and the thief on the Cross and not only them had received him as they were waiting for him. And having believed they had received from His Spirit they must have been the first ones. The first New Creation. Only waiting for the Father to endorse Jesus when Jesus ascended to him on the day of his resurrection. 

As Jesus said the dead will hear my voice first.

Jesus was appointed to preach the Gospel to the dead and the disciples to the living because they will ascend to the Father and their God at the time of their death. 

Abraham and John the Baptist who was going before the Lord to announce his coming and the prophets who had proclaimed his coming and David knew that the Jesus had to die first and this was the only way to descend to where they were as they also had to die to go to where they were. They only ones who knew that the Lamb of God had to be slain, must die as it was written in the book of Exodus. On the 10th day of Nissan they selected the Lamb and they took care of it till the 14th of the month and it had to be slaughter the same Lamb must die on the Passover day. 

Jesus as a High Priest at 30th years old the age of any Priest to begin his service in the Temple, showed himself up at the Jordan River to John to begin his ministry knowing that the Lamb of God must die after three days as for him it was after three years. He knew that He will die after three years. And He died on the Passover day at the end before sunset  

This why the Heaven opened just for Him and the Father said : this is my Son and in Him I am pleased ". 

"Abraham knew my day and he rejoice I would say from the news of John the Baptist about having seen Jesus and that the Holy Spirit identified him to him that Jesus is indeed the Son of God. 

Definitely they must have received from his Spirit as they believed in Him. And they were not the only ones. 

We may say that Jesus had discussed the disciples mission and Him telling them that He is their Lord and they are accountable to Him and not to God. As Jesus said that the Father had send me so I am sending you. And later he told them about the Holy Spirit and to wait because that had to happen after He left the earth when He ascended to the Father. 

He had to first ascend for the Father to give him the Holy Spirit to represent him on earth. 

 

Edited October 24, 2024 by Your closest friendnt

[Vine Abider]

19 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Besides "the same day" I have made red the fact that even before our Lord had breathed into the disciples, He called His father THEIR Father. This is to show that a BIRTH had taken place already outside of time. You cannot call anyone "YOUR Father" unless you were born to Him. John 12:24 shows that the many grains of wheat, like Jesus (same Father), occurred at His death. And so also the Type - Eve. She is taken from Adam while he slept.

That means, of course, that our Lord Jesus ascended to the Father on resurrection day and returned that evening. He had two duties before the Father. Hebrews says He had to present His blood to the Father, and Colossians has Him as the Firstfruits from the dead. That is why Mary may not touch Him. He is FIRST to present Himself to the Lord of the harvest.

Man has, among others, two great problems. To fulfill Genesis 1:26-28 man needs 1. God's nature and life to be like Him, and 2. he needs God's power because he was to subdue and rule angels. Man is made lower than the angels. Before the fall the Tree of Life would have covered both. But once sin came in God separated them so that the various servants of the Lord like the prophets and Samson could receive the Spirit for POWER "UPON" them. Not so the INDWELLING Spirit. As John 7:39 and 14:2 say, for man to get the Spirit INWARDLY needed "preparation". Sin and death must be conquered before Christ was administered to man.

As @Vine Abider has said, this aspect of God's economy is not taught much, but it is crucial to God's plan.

Thanks for stating this - that the new rebirth for believers happens "outside of time"!  This was a little "light bulb" going off which helped me and clears up a couple difficult questions I've had.  That is, God is God, who created time, and He works outside of time. Therefore, God was their Father in eternity, which to us looks like it was before their rebirth (making them children of God via His life-seed)!  Accordingly, Jesus said that God was the disciples' Father, even before (from our time-limited perspective) being born anew by Him. 

And wholeheartedly agree about the Spirit of God needing to be in us, which is the major component of the New Covenant. He has chosen to do this through man, and the last Adam facilitated that restoration of purpose completely!