Max Lucado - Grace is just Christ in us!

[AdHoc]

3 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Thanks for stating this - that the new rebirth for believers happens "outside of time"!  This was a little "light bulb" going off which helped me and clears up a couple difficult questions I've had.  That is, God is God, who created time, and He works outside of time. Therefore, God was their Father in eternity, which to us looks like it was before their rebirth (making them children of God via His life-seed)!  Accordingly, Jesus said that God was the disciples' Father, even before (from our time-limited perspective) being born anew by Him. 

And wholeheartedly agree about the Spirit of God needing to be in us, which is the major component of the New Covenant. He has chosen to do this through man, and the last Adam facilitated that restoration of purpose completely!

Yes. If one does not factor in Christ's deity and eternalness then great difficulties arise.

In TIME it is not possible for Abraham to see Christ's day, nor is it possible for Christ to be the Root of Jesse, never mind being slain from the foundation of the world. In time Jesus does not have preeminence in ALL things. He is the seventh resurrected and could not be the Firstfruits of them that slept. Moses could not be in the Kingdom in Matthew 17 if he was not born again. Yet John 7:39 says the Spirit was not yet before Jesus' resurrection. And what of the processes He went through? He was perfectly obedient, yet He "learned obedience", not to mention BECOMING the Life-Giving Spirit ... etc.

[AdHoc]

23 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

@AdHoc

Jesus indeed ascended to the Father to show himself and descended back on the same day.

I would leave the other issue  open because Jesus did not breathe on Mary or on Peter before he showed him self to the Father", but after. The Father had to see him first and I do not want to speculate the reason why. 

Definitely Abraham and John the Baptist and the thief on the Cross and not only them had received him as they were waiting for him. And having believed they had received from His Spirit they must have been the first ones. The first New Creation. Only waiting for the Father to endorse Jesus when Jesus ascended to him on the day of his resurrection. 

As Jesus said the dead will hear my voice first.

Jesus was appointed to preach the Gospel to the dead and the disciples to the living because they will ascend to the Father and their God at the time of their death. 

Abraham and John the Baptist who was going before the Lord to announce his coming and the prophets who had proclaimed his coming and David knew that the Jesus had to die first and this was the only way to descend to where they were as they also had to die to go to where they were. They only ones who knew that the Lamb of God had to be slain, must die as it was written in the book of Exodus. On the 10th day of Nissan they selected the Lamb and they took care of it till the 14th of the month and it had to be slaughter the same Lamb must die on the Passover day. 

Jesus as a High Priest at 30th years old the age of any Priest to begin his service in the Temple, showed himself up at the Jordan River to John to begin his ministry knowing that the Lamb of God must die after three days as for him it was after three years. He knew that He will die after three years. And He died on the Passover day at the end before sunset  

This why the Heaven opened just for Him and the Father said : this is my Son and in Him I am pleased ". 

"Abraham knew my day and he rejoice I would say from the news of John the Baptist about having seen Jesus and that the Holy Spirit identified him to him that Jesus is indeed the Son of God. 

Definitely they must have received from his Spirit as they believed in Him. And they were not the only ones. 

We may say that Jesus had discussed the disciples mission and Him telling them that He is their Lord and they are accountable to Him and not to God. As Jesus said that the Father had send me so I am sending you. And later he told them about the Holy Spirit and to wait because that had to happen after He left the earth when He ascended to the Father. 

He had to first ascend for the Father to give him the Holy Spirit to represent him on earth. 

 

In the main I know what you are saying, so be it far from me to try to correct you.  But I owe you an answer. If you post the scriptures that go with your thoughts, you are forced to be accurate.

1. The grammar of 1st Peter 3:19 has, as its subject, not Christ, but the Holy Spirit. It reads

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which (SPIRIT) also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, ...

Paraphrased it would read: "The Holy Spirit resurrected Jesus by the Holy Spirit, BY WHICH Holy Spirit Noah was inspired to preach to the spirits which are now in prison"

You see, where Jesus went for three days and three nights is HADES the place of the SOULS of dead men. The spirit of man does not go to prison at death. It returns to the Father Who gave it (Eccl.3:21, 12:7). But an hybrid  caused by the mating of an angel with a woman, and the angel himself would be "spirit" substance. They are not in Hades, but Tartaroo (2nd Pet.2:4)

2. While Abraham believed looking forward and so will be in the kingdom (Jn.3:3), there is no record of John Baptist believing. Our Lord Jesus called him "the greatest man born to a WOMAN" - not BORN to the Holy Spirit (Matt.11:11)

3. Jesus was never High Priest of Israel. It is set in Law that a Levite must be High Priest. Jesus is High Priest of the Church - according to the order of Melchisedek. See Hebrews 7:12 & 28.

4. The thief next to our Lord Jesus is no doubt born again - or is he? To be born again one must believe that Jesus is the Son of God and confess it. The thief appealed to Christ as KING because it said on the superscript "King of the JEWS". But he did confess his sins and he did declare Jesus without fault. So let's give him the benefit of the doubt. Yes ... doubt, because he asked to be remembered in Christ's Kingdom, but Jesus answered not a word about the kingdom.

5.  The context of John 20:22 is being sent. And it is not only valid but important. But without the Holy Spirit it is fruitless. That is why @Vine Abider has brought this neglected doctrine up for discussion.

[Vine Abider]

1 hour ago, AdHoc said:

In the main I know what you are saying, so be it far from me to try to correct you.  But I owe you an answer. If you post the scriptures that go with your thoughts, you are forced to be accurate.

1. The grammar of 1st Peter 3:19 has, as its subject, not Christ, but the Holy Spirit. It reads

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which (SPIRIT) also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, ...

Paraphrased it would read: "The Holy Spirit resurrected Jesus by the Holy Spirit, BY WHICH Holy Spirit Noah was inspired to preach to the spirits which are now in prison"

You see, where Jesus went for three days and three nights is HADES the place of the SOULS of dead men. The spirit of man does not go to prison at death. It returns to the Father Who gave it (Eccl.3:21, 12:7). But an hybrid  caused by the mating of an angel with a woman, and the angel himself would be "spirit" substance. They are not in Hades, but Tartaroo (2nd Pet.2:4)

2. While Abraham believed looking forward and so will be in the kingdom (Jn.3:3), there is no record of John Baptist believing. Our Lord Jesus called him "the greatest man born to a WOMAN" - not BORN to the Holy Spirit (Matt.11:11)

3. Jesus was never High Priest of Israel. It is set in Law that a Levite must be High Priest. Jesus is High Priest of the Church - according to the order of Melchisedek. See Hebrews 7:12 & 28.

4. The thief next to our Lord Jesus is no doubt born again - or is he? To be born again one must believe that Jesus is the Son of God and confess it. The thief appealed to Christ as KING because it said on the superscript "King of the JEWS". But he did confess his sins and he did declare Jesus without fault. So let's give him the benefit of the doubt. Yes ... doubt, because he asked to be remembered in Christ's Kingdom, but Jesus answered not a word about the kingdom.

5.  The context of John 20:22 is being sent. And it is not only valid but important. But without the Holy Spirit it is fruitless. That is why @Vine Abider has brought this neglected doctrine up for discussion.

That's deep stuff bro!  Very interesting . . . I mean, VERY interesting! 

I'm starting to see more about #3 regarding Christ being according to the order of Melchisedek and not Aaron, and what that means. "No beginning of days and no end of life."  This is who the ekklesia of Christ gets as High Priest!!!

[AdHoc]

15 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

That's deep stuff bro!  Very interesting . . . I mean, VERY interesting! 

I'm starting to see more about #3 regarding Christ being according to the order of Melchisedek and not Aaron, and what that means. "No beginning of days and no end of life."  This is who the ekklesia of Christ gets as High Priest!!!

Heb 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Heb 4:14
Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

Heb 4:15
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

... etc.

[Your closest friendnt]

11 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Heb 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Heb 4:14
Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

Heb 4:15
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

... etc.

I don't say that I don't like what you have posted but this is not what we read in the Psalms 110:4 “The Lord has sworn and will not change his mind: ‘You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek’.

Melhisedec was a Priest towards God while He yet lived. He was a contemporary to Abraham. 

[AdHoc]

18 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

I don't say that I don't like what you have posted but this is not what we read in the Psalms 110:4 “The Lord has sworn and will not change his mind: ‘You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek’.

Melhisedec was a Priest towards God while He yet lived. He was a contemporary to Abraham. 

I understand your dilemma. Melchisedek is not explained. But your phrase "while he yet lived" creates a new difficulty for Melchisedek ...

... first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; 3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

Here he is eternal, but the word "made" then adds to the difficulty. Then, if that is not enough, Jesus Who is eternal, was "begotten this DAY". A day is part of the creature. But what we do know is that our Lord Jesus is High Priest of the heavenly Tabernacle. But again, this provides a difficulty for Melchisedek was king of Salem - on earth ... where Abraham was.

A true mystery - more so than the 24 Elders of Revelation 4

 

[Your closest friendnt]

On 10/27/2024 at 6:54 PM, AdHoc said:

I understand your dilemma. Melchisedek is not explained. But your phrase "while he yet lived" creates a new difficulty for Melchisedek ...

... first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; 3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

Here he is eternal, but the word "made" then adds to the difficulty. Then, if that is not enough, Jesus Who is eternal, was "begotten this DAY". A day is part of the creature. But what we do know is that our Lord Jesus is High Priest of the heavenly Tabernacle. But again, this provides a difficulty for Melchisedek was king of Salem - on earth ... where Abraham was.

A true mystery - more so than the 24 Elders of Revelation 4

 

The prophetic in Psalm 110:4 

The Lord has sworn
    and will not change his mind:
“You are a priest forever,
    in the order of Melchizedek.”

Is not telling us that Melchisedek is a Priest for ever. 

It announcing hundreds of years later and while in the Sinai Covenant and the Aaroning Priesthood the coming of a Priest not from the family of Aaron. 

The way Abraham was a contemporary to Melchisedek and Melchisedek blessed Abraham with bread and wine and so it will be for the time will come that God will bless Abraham and send someone the promised seed with what Abraham has been waiting for the bread of Life.

Abraham knew that the only way for the bless promised seed to get to where he was with his people it was for the promised seed to die. 

Jesus deep the bread in the red wine. 

Aaron died and all the Priest died and they all gathered to Abraham waiting for the one God will sent with the bread of Life. 

Jesus said that Abraham has seen this day and rejoice. 

[steve morrow]

EXCEPT  YOU  BE  REPROBATES 

 

ACTS 13:10  and said o full of all subtilty and mischief thou child of the devil thou enemy of all righteousness wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of  THE  LORD 

HEBREWS 10:29  of how much sorer punishment suppose you shall he be thought worthy who hath trodden under foot  THE  SON  OF  GOD  and hath counted the blood of the covenant wherewith he was sanctified an unholy thing and ---hath done despite unto the spirit of grace---

PROVERBS 13:13  whoso despiseth the word shall be destroyed but he that feareth the commandment shall be rewarded 

 

ACTS 3:22  for Moses truly said unto the fathers a prophet shall  THE  LORD  YOUR  GOD  raise up unto you of your brethren like unto me  HIM  shall you hear in all things whatsoever  HE  shall say unto you 

--3:23--  and it shall come to pass that every soul which will not hear that prophet ---shall be destroyed from among the people---

 

PROVERBS 11:9  an hypocrite with his mouth destroyeth his neighbor but through knowledge shall the just be delivered 

ECCLESIASTES 9:18 wisdom is better than weapons of war but one sinner destroyeth much good 

 

ROMANS 1:28  and even as they did not like to retain  GOD  in their knowledge  GOD  gave them over to a reprobate mind to do those things which are not convenient 

PSALM 28:4  give them according to their deeds and according to the wickedness of their endeavors give them after the work of their hands render to them their desert 

--28:5-- because they regard not the works of  THE  LORD  nor the operation of  HIS  hands  HE  shall destroy them and not build them up 

 

PSALM 33:4. for the word of  THE  LORD  is right and all  HIS  works are done in truth

 

1 JOHN 2:6  he that saith he abideth in  HIM  ought himself also so to walk even as  HE  walked

 

EPHESIANS 2:9  not of works lest ---any man should boast--- 

 

TITUS 1:16  they profess that they know  GOD  but in works they deny  HIM  being abominable and disobedient and unto every good work reprobate 

 

2 CORINTHIANS 13:5 examine yourselves whether you be in the faith prove your own selves know you not your own selves how that  JESUS  CHRIST  is in you ---except you be reprobates---

 

HEBREWS 13:18  pray for us for we trust we have a good conscience ---in all things willing to live honestly

2 CORINTHIANS 8:21  providing for honest things not only in the sight of  THE  LORD  but also in the sight of men 

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST