Birth Pangs & First Fruits

[Vine Abider]

I read a couple verses in devotional from Romans 8:22-23 this morning, and saw something I hadn't realized before.  Here are the verses:

"We know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until the present time. Not only that, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies."

This got me to thinking and what I found interesting about this passage, is that it appears there are references to two scenes in heaven in Revelation:  The man child in chapter 12 and the 144,000 first fruits in chapter 14.

The birth pangs of the whole creation in Romans 8:22 would seem to culminate in the birth of the man child in Rev 12. (In my thinking, the man child cannot be Jesus Christ as numerous references in chapter 12 don't align well with that notion.)  The man child comes from the woman, who in my thinking is all the people of God (aka the new Jerusalem coming down from heaven adorned as a bride).  In essence, the man child actually is Christ, but it is Christ in His regenerated ones.

But then the very next verse after Romans 8:22, which is about birth pangs, talks about first fruits.  I find this curious as first fruits are presented as ripened ones in Rev 14.  They have been caught up into heaven earlier than the rest, and then a little later in Rev chapter 14 the rest of the ones are harvested (they ripen after the first fruits).

I've often heard that Christ is referred to as The First Fruit, and this is true.  However, in Rev 14 it is clear that the 144,000 are not Jesus Christ.  (Here again, I think it is Christ, but specifically it's Christ in His regenerated ones.)

Christ came to produce His body, the ekklesia (church), and through regeneration (His life into them) to restore mankind to their rightful position.  We are to rule and reign with Him, and overcomers are to rule the nations "with a rod of iron," as promised in Rev 2:27 (which is also said about Jesus Christ).

One last thought/question: Could it be that the man child and the first fruits are referring to the same group of overcomers?

CC: @AdHoc

[Marilyn C]

56 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

I read a couple verses in devotional from Romans 8:22-23 this morning, and saw something I hadn't realized before.  Here are the verses:

"We know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until the present time. Not only that, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies."

This got me to thinking and what I found interesting about this passage, is that it appears there are references to two scenes in heaven in Revelation:  The man child in chapter 12 and the 144,000 first fruits in chapter 14.

The birth pangs of the whole creation in Romans 8:22 would seem to culminate in the birth of the man child in Rev 12. (In my thinking, the man child cannot be Jesus Christ as numerous references in chapter 12 don't align well with that notion.)  The man child comes from the woman, who in my thinking is all the people of God (aka the new Jerusalem coming down from heaven adorned as a bride).  In essence, the man child actually is Christ, but it is Christ in His regenerated ones.

But then the very next verse after Romans 8:22, which is about birth pangs, talks about first fruits.  I find this curious as first fruits are presented as ripened ones in Rev 14.  They have been caught up into heaven earlier than the rest, and then a little later in Rev chapter 14 the rest of the ones are harvested (they ripen after the first fruits).

I've often heard that Christ is referred to as The First Fruit, and this is true.  However, in Rev 14 it is clear that the 144,000 are not Jesus Christ.  (Here again, I think it is Christ, but specifically it's Christ in His regenerated ones.)

Christ came to produce His body, the ekklesia (church), and through regeneration (His life into them) to restore mankind to their rightful position.  We are to rule and reign with Him, and overcomers are to rule the nations "with a rod of iron," as promised in Rev 2:27 (which is also said about Jesus Christ).

One last thought/question: Could it be that the man child and the first fruits are referring to the same group of overcomers?

CC: @AdHoc

Hi VA,

I was reading that the other day and then my hubby groaned. I told him what I had read, and we had a laugh.

Now I think you get too caught up in `it is all about us first,` when actually God`s word is `all about the Lord, first.` Also, you tend to go to the symbol and assume that all things with that are the same. That is like looking at all `lambs,` and saying they are Christ, for He is the Lamb of God. 

We always need to start with CHRIST. And then go from there gathering all scriptures pertaining to that topic. You see how you jumped from symbol to symbol, - childbirth and firstfruits. 

Creation groaning - we know from God word that `creation itself will be delivered from the bondage of corruption ...` (Rom. 8: 21) That is creation whereas you jumped to Rev. 12: 1 & 2 about the woman in childbirth.

She is described in detail and the interpretation is given by God in Gen. 37: 9 & 10) The `sun and moon` refers to Israel, and the man child, Christ, (Isa. 9: 6). The context of Rev. 12: 1, 2 & 5, is the scriptural identity of Christ the conqueror of Satan. Rev. 12: 3,4 & 9 refer to the scriptural identity of the adversary, Satan. 

The Firstfruits - mentioned after the creation groaning, is about us, the Body of Christ. 

`Christ the firstfuits, afterwards those who are Christ`s at His coming.` (1 Cor. 15: 23) 

See, we need to follow the red line of Christ throughout His word and then we wont get led astray. As to the 144,000 from Israel they are also explained as firstfruits, but of which group - the Body of Christ, or Israel? God`s word tells us - Israel. (Rev. 7: 1 - 8)

I hope that is helpful to you VA. regards, Marilyn.

[Vine Abider]

36 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi VA,

I was reading that the other day and then my hubby groaned. I told him what I had read, and we had a laugh.

Now I think you get too caught up in `it is all about us first,` when actually God`s word is `all about the Lord, first.` Also, you tend to go to the symbol and assume that all things with that are the same. That is like looking at all `lambs,` and saying they are Christ, for He is the Lamb of God. 

We always need to start with CHRIST. And then go from there gathering all scriptures pertaining to that topic. You see how you jumped from symbol to symbol, - childbirth and firstfruits. 

Creation groaning - we know from God word that `creation itself will be delivered from the bondage of corruption ...` (Rom. 8: 21) That is creation whereas you jumped to Rev. 12: 1 & 2 about the woman in childbirth.

She is described in detail and the interpretation is given by God in Gen. 37: 9 & 10) The `sun and moon` refers to Israel, and the man child, Christ, (Isa. 9: 6). The context of Rev. 12: 1, 2 & 5, is the scriptural identity of Christ the conqueror of Satan. Rev. 12: 3,4 & 9 refer to the scriptural identity of the adversary, Satan. 

The Firstfruits - mentioned after the creation groaning, is about us, the Body of Christ. 

`Christ the firstfuits, afterwards those who are Christ`s at His coming.` (1 Cor. 15: 23) 

See, we need to follow the red line of Christ throughout His word and then we wont get led astray. As to the 144,000 from Israel they are also explained as firstfruits, but of which group - the Body of Christ, or Israel? God`s word tells us - Israel. (Rev. 7: 1 - 8)

I hope that is helpful to you VA. regards, Marilyn.

Thanks for your response!

Well let's just take one thing - the man child being Jesus Christ.  So assuming the Rev 12 man child is Jesus, if you take all the things that are then said about the situation surrounding this man child in that chapter, does Jesus fit neatly into those parameters?

[AdHoc]

1 hour ago, Vine Abider said:

I read a couple verses in devotional from Romans 8:22-23 this morning, and saw something I hadn't realized before.  Here are the verses:

"We know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until the present time. Not only that, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies."

This got me to thinking and what I found interesting about this passage, is that it appears there are references to two scenes in heaven in Revelation:  The man child in chapter 12 and the 144,000 first fruits in chapter 14.

The birth pangs of the whole creation in Romans 8:22 would seem to culminate in the birth of the man child in Rev 12. (In my thinking, the man child cannot be Jesus Christ as numerous references in chapter 12 don't align well with that notion.)  The man child comes from the woman, who in my thinking is all the people of God (aka the new Jerusalem coming down from heaven adorned as a bride).  In essence, the man child actually is Christ, but it is Christ in His regenerated ones.

But then the very next verse after Romans 8:22, which is about birth pangs, talks about first fruits.  I find this curious as first fruits are presented as ripened ones in Rev 14.  They have been caught up into heaven earlier than the rest, and then a little later in Rev chapter 14 the rest of the ones are harvested (they ripen after the first fruits).

I've often heard that Christ is referred to as The First Fruit, and this is true.  However, in Rev 14 it is clear that the 144,000 are not Jesus Christ.  (Here again, I think it is Christ, but specifically it's Christ in His regenerated ones.)

Christ came to produce His body, the ekklesia (church), and through regeneration (His life into them) to restore mankind to their rightful position.  We are to rule and reign with Him, and overcomers are to rule the nations "with a rod of iron," as promised in Rev 2:27 (which is also said about Jesus Christ).

One last thought/question: Could it be that the man child and the first fruits are referring to the same group of overcomers?

CC: @AdHoc

A thoughtful and deep posting, no doubt. It is also very educational to see how two brothers who are on the same page can differ, however so slightly, on details. However, I believe this to be from the Lord to provoke men to study further.

In general, I am one with this posting. I differ slightly in that I believe the birth pangs are the precursor to a birth. To my knowledge they appear three times in parable.
1. The birth pains of the excruciating Great Tribulation (Matt.24:8)
2. The birth pains before the birth or regeneration of the creature (Rom.8 above)
3. The birth pains of producing men and women who stand diametrically opposed to the order of this word

Contrary to popular belief, the Christian is NOT destined for heaven. He was made for the earth(Gen.1:26.28). Three sins particularly pollute the earth. 1. Innocent bloodshed. 2. Sexual sins. and 3. idol worship. Since Abel's blood drained into the ground and cried out (Heb.12:24), the earth has been cursed. The problem with the earth is not overpopulation. It is the cursed harvests. Popular belief says that God will burn up the earth at the White Throne Judgment. But on careful reading it turns out that only the surface of the earth that was polluted will be purged (Ps.102:25-26, Isa.51:6, Heb.1.11).

To replenish the earth after Satan's rebellion, God made man. To replenish the earth after Adam's rebellion, God stared a New Creation. As i the firt creation, God uses Jesus as Creator. This new creature starts with Jesus and continues with the rebirth of the Christian's human spirit. But the great move of the new creature is when the PHYSICAL side of man is redeemed from PHYSICAL death. "The Gates of HADES (not HELL) will not prevail against it" says our Lord Jesus when naming the Church in Matthew 16. To produce this new creature both Christ and those born again must endure the pain of being a new creature on a hostile earth.

After the human spirit has been born again, the next stage of recovery is the soul. This is handled in verses 28-29. The Christian, through "everything" (good and bad) is destined to be conformed to the image and likeness of Christ. Ten comes the resurrection like Christ's.

We are called Firstfruits because the Lord of the Harvest - the Father, will not accept just one ear of corn. The Wave Ofering is toe a "SHEAF" (Lev.23:10-12). In Leviticus 23 you will note three harvests. In the first harvest - depicting Christ, NO LEAVEN was added. Then, in the next harvest FIRSTFRUIT WITH Leaven are called for. This depicts the OVERCOMERS - the FIRST-RIPE. In the GENERAL harvest that follows, no comment is made. They are the same crop, same harvest but NOT FIRSTFRUITS.

Only the OVERCOMERS will reign with Christ. As Revelation 12 shows, the Man-Child is only brought forth with much pain. "And they loved not their "soul-lives" unto DEATH!

[AdHoc]

47 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi VA,

I was reading that the other day and then my hubby groaned. I told him what I had read, and we had a laugh.

Now I think you get too caught up in `it is all about us first,` when actually God`s word is `all about the Lord, first.` Also, you tend to go to the symbol and assume that all things with that are the same. That is like looking at all `lambs,` and saying they are Christ, for He is the Lamb of God. 

We always need to start with CHRIST. And then go from there gathering all scriptures pertaining to that topic. You see how you jumped from symbol to symbol, - childbirth and firstfruits. 

Creation groaning - we know from God word that `creation itself will be delivered from the bondage of corruption ...` (Rom. 8: 21) That is creation whereas you jumped to Rev. 12: 1 & 2 about the woman in childbirth.

She is described in detail and the interpretation is given by God in Gen. 37: 9 & 10) The `sun and moon` refers to Israel, and the man child, Christ, (Isa. 9: 6). The context of Rev. 12: 1, 2 & 5, is the scriptural identity of Christ the conqueror of Satan. Rev. 12: 3,4 & 9 refer to the scriptural identity of the adversary, Satan. 

The Firstfruits - mentioned after the creation groaning, is about us, the Body of Christ. 

`Christ the firstfuits, afterwards those who are Christ`s at His coming.` (1 Cor. 15: 23) 

See, we need to follow the red line of Christ throughout His word and then we wont get led astray. As to the 144,000 from Israel they are also explained as firstfruits, but of which group - the Body of Christ, or Israel? God`s word tells us - Israel. (Rev. 7: 1 - 8)

I hope that is helpful to you VA. regards, Marilyn.

My dear sister, you're going to have your work cut out to show the Man-Child to be Christ. If the Man-Child is Christ then the Woman must be Mary.
1. But the Woman is in heaven. Mary never was
2. The woman is pregnant in heaven. Mary never was
3. The Woman is crowned before Christ. Mary cannot be crowned while she is still among the dead
4. The Woman has the Man-Child third because the "remainder" of her seed is already there
5. The Woman is clothed with the sun - the greater light. Mary is rejected in Matthew 12
6. The Woman has her feet on the moon - the lesser light
7. The Woman must flee to the wilderness for 1260 days - Mary flees to Egypt
8. The Woman brought forth "them who have the Testimony of Jesus Christ" - The Holy Spirit did this

See, my sister, I think @Vine Abider must be right. The only other entity in the Bible that rules the Nations with a Rod of Iron is the OVERCOMERS (Rev,2:27)

[Marilyn C]

22 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Thanks for your response!

Well let's just take one thing - the man child being Jesus Christ.  So assuming the Rev 12 man child is Jesus, if you take all the things that are then said about the situation surrounding this man child in that chapter, does Jesus fit neatly into those parameters?

Thank you too VA, for opening more discussion.

As I said the man-child is the Lord, and Rev. 12: 1- 6 is the scriptural identity of the Lord.

1. Born of the nation of Israel. (Rev. 12: 1) Israel is represented as the woman with sun, moon and 12 stars. God`s interpretation is seen in Joseph`s dream - `....the sun, the moon, and the eleven stars bowed down to me....` (his father said) `Shall your mother and I and your brothers ...` (Gen. 37: 9 & 10)

God explains who is represented by the sun, moon and stars. That is Israel. 

2. The promised man child of Israel.  (Rev. 12: 5) `For unto us a child is born, unto us a Son (male/man)is given...` (Isa. 9: 6)

3. Satan tried to kill Him as soon as born. (Rev. 12: 4)  (the angel said) `Arise, take the young child and his mother, flee to Egypt, and stay there until I bring you word; for Herod will seek the young child to destroy Him.` (Matt. 2: 13)

4. Satan through King Herod seeks to kill the man child. (Rev. 12: 4) `Then Herod, when he saw that he was deceived by the wise men, was exceedingly angry; and he sent forth and put to death all the male children who were in Bethlehem and in its districts, from two years old and under, according to the time from the wise men.` (Matt. 2: 16)

5. Jesus is born of the nation of Israel and will rule all the nations with a rod of iron. (Rev. 12: 5) (the Father said to His Son) `I will give you the nations for your inheritance, and the ends of the earth for your possession. You shall break them with a rod of iron...` (Ps. 2: 8 & 9)

6. Jesus ascends to God the Father and to His own throne. (Rev. 12: 5) (the Father) `raised Him (Jesus) from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places...` (Eph. 1: 20)

The sign was in heaven for Israel was made of God and not man of the earth.

Also, Jesus was of the Father (sun) and not the earthly mother, (moon under feet.)  (Rev. 12: 1)

 

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, AdHoc said:

. The only other entity in the Bible that rules the Nations with a Rod of Iron is the OVERCOMERS (Rev,2:27)

Why, of why bro Ad Hoc, must we place ourselves BEFORE the Lord. 

[AdHoc]

15 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Why, of why bro Ad Hoc, must we place ourselves BEFORE the Lord. 

Revelation Chapter 1 is all about the Lord. By Chapter 12 the Lord describes other things. We presently discuss Chapter 12. Maybe you can object at the Author. But I doubt you'll get an answer. Half of Genesis is about Jacob. Is the Author accused too?

So, having established that the Author is the One to address, maybe you can answer my posting. I will give you some more parameters since you insist on interpreting Revelation 12 with Genesis 37. Here is the text in question.

 9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me. 10 And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth? 11 And his brethren envied him; but his father observed the saying. (Gen.37:8–11).

1. Gen.37 is a dream - Rev 12 is a sign
2. Gen,37 is about the sun, stars and moon - Rev.12 is about a crown, clothing and footrest
3. Gen.37 has eleven stars and one ruler the rule being Joseph -  Rev.12 makes the Man-Child plural ("they")
4. Gen.37 has a man and woman - Rev.12 has only a woman
5. Gen.37 has One of Four women - Rev.12 has One mystical woman
6. Gen.37 has eleven bowing down to Joseph - Rev.12 has te Nations bowing to the Man-Child

There is one similarity that can be taken for both. The number 12 is common to both. In both cases the totality of God's People are included If twelve is the number of God's people on earth at the time.

Except for this last point, there is nothing the same.

Here are a  few more considerations in favor of the Man-Child being the Overcomers
1. The time from the rapture of the Man-Child  till the wilderness sojourn  is over is 1260 day. This puts the birth of the Man- Child at the end of the age. Jesus was not raptured at the end of the age.
2. The Woman is the MOTHER of three seeds; 1. the Man-Child, 2. those who have the testimony of Jesus Christ, and 3. those who keep the commandments of God. The term "commandments of God" refers exclusively to the Law of Moses in the Old Testament. IN the New Testament all but about six mentions are the same. Thus, the woman is mother of the children of faith, the children of Law and te children of Works - the Man-Child. This constellation occurs thrice more in the Bible.
1. Romans 11 and the Olive Tree
2. Galatians where the whole book CONTRASTS Israel and  the Church EXCEPT 4:26
3. New Jerusalem where the Church is the Wall and Israel is the Gates but make up one City

Thus, while Israel and the church are kept far apart In the whole Bible, they have, in matters of God's Kingdom, a connection. I judge then, based on these facts that the Olive Tree of Romans 11, the Woman in Galatians and the Woman in Revelation 12 all represent New Jerusalem in various stages of growth. This understanding removes most of the problems that the contemporary interpretation causes.

[Marilyn C]

3 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Revelation Chapter 1 is all about the Lord. By Chapter 12 the Lord describes other things. We presently discuss Chapter 12. Maybe you can object at the Author. But I doubt you'll get an answer. Half of Genesis is about Jacob. Is the Author accused too?

So, having established that the Author is the One to address, maybe you can answer my posting. I will give you some more parameters since you insist on interpreting Revelation 12 with Genesis 37. Here is the text in question.

 9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me. 10 And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth? 11 And his brethren envied him; but his father observed the saying. (Gen.37:8–11).

1. Gen.37 is a dream - Rev 12 is a sign
2. Gen,37 is about the sun, stars and moon - Rev.12 is about a crown, clothing and footrest
3. Gen.37 has eleven stars and one ruler the rule being Joseph -  Rev.12 makes the Man-Child plural ("they")
4. Gen.37 has a man and woman - Rev.12 has only a woman
5. Gen.37 has One of Four women - Rev.12 has One mystical woman
6. Gen.37 has eleven bowing down to Joseph - Rev.12 has te Nations bowing to the Man-Child

There is one similarity that can be taken for both. The number 12 is common to both. In both cases the totality of God's People are included If twelve is the number of God's people on earth at the time.

Except for this last point, there is nothing the same.

Here are a  few more considerations in favor of the Man-Child being the Overcomers
1. The time from the rapture of the Man-Child  till the wilderness sojourn  is over is 1260 day. This puts the birth of the Man- Child at the end of the age. Jesus was not raptured at the end of the age.
2. The Woman is the MOTHER of three seeds; 1. the Man-Child, 2. those who have the testimony of Jesus Christ, and 3. those who keep the commandments of God. The term "commandments of God" refers exclusively to the Law of Moses in the Old Testament. IN the New Testament all but about six mentions are the same. Thus, the woman is mother of the children of faith, the children of Law and te children of Works - the Man-Child. This constellation occurs thrice more in the Bible.
1. Romans 11 and the Olive Tree
2. Galatians where the whole book CONTRASTS Israel and  the Church EXCEPT 4:26
3. New Jerusalem where the Church is the Wall and Israel is the Gates but make up one City

Thus, while Israel and the church are kept far apart In the whole Bible, they have, in matters of God's Kingdom, a connection. I judge then, based on these facts that the Olive Tree of Romans 11, the Woman in Galatians and the Woman in Revelation 12 all represent New Jerusalem in various stages of growth. This understanding removes most of the problems that the contemporary interpretation causes.

Hi Ad Hoc,

No where did I say that Gen. 37 is about Rev. 12. It is ONLY the symbols of the sun, moon and stars representing Israel. Nothing else. 

No where does Rev. 12 say the man-child is plural. Where is your proof?

`Then being with child..... to devour her child....she bore a male child...her child was caught up....` Rev. 12: 2, 4 & 5)

`Unto us a child is born, unto us a son (male/man) is given...`  (man child) (Isa. 9: 6)  CHRIST.

 

`...a male child who was to rule all nations...` (Rev. 12: 5)

`...And the government shall be upon His shoulder....` (Isa. 9: 6)

 

You have not addressed any scriptures that I gave in my comments. That is what is needed for a profitable discussion. Your comments are just that, your opinions with a misunderstanding of scripture. Just a confused mixture there, bro.

Please address the person`s comments when they post scripture, for that is what we look for not a download of someone`s philosophy. 

[WilliamL]

On 12/21/2024 at 1:22 PM, Vine Abider said:

The birth pangs of the whole creation in Romans 8:22 would seem to culminate in the birth of the man child in Rev 12. (In my thinking, the man child cannot be Jesus Christ as numerous references in chapter 12 don't align well with that notion.)  The man child comes from the woman, who in my thinking is all the people of God (aka the new Jerusalem coming down from heaven adorned as a bride).  In essence, the man child actually is Christ, but it is Christ in His regenerated ones.

As I have explained before, the Woman of Rev. 12 is the Shekhinah, the feminine attribute of Divinity:

77. The Shekhinah and the Manchild

Explains the nature and role of the Shekhinah, the feminine manifestation of Deity, and her soon-to-come role as the Mother of the Manchild of Revelation 12:2-5.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/2828-the-shekhinah-and-the-manchild/

In the End Times, the Manchild (group) is (are) "the first of the firstfruits;" which prophetic fulfillment is explained in the first article mentioned below.

On 12/21/2024 at 1:22 PM, Vine Abider said:

But then the very next verse after Romans 8:22, which is about birth pangs, talks about first fruits.  I find this curious as first fruits are presented as ripened ones in Rev 14.  They have been caught up into heaven earlier than the rest, and then a little later in Rev chapter 14 the rest of the ones are harvested (they ripen after the first fruits).

Under the OT types and shadows, there were different types of firstfruits; of which, in the End Times, the 144,000 of Rev. 14:1-5 are of the Hebrew type. By Divine law, the firstfruits are to be taken to the Temple; being the heavenly Temple in the End Times account of Revelation. The "harvest" spoken of later in Rev. 14:14-20 are not firstfruits, so they are gathered on earth, not to heaven.

Both the OT and NT details about these things are explained here:

56. The Firstfruits and the Harvest 2.0; Part 1

An upgrade of article #24. Explains the prophetic application of OT laws about the firstfruits, the firstborn, and the full harvest, as these laws relate to the End Times. https://worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/2686-the-firstfruits-and-the-harvest-20-part-1/

57. The Firstfruits and the Harvest 2.0; Part 2 https://worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/2687-the-firstfruits-and-the-harvest-20-part-2/