Cheap Grace and Easy Believeism.

[BornAgain490]

54 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

This is all irrelevant since the Bible says that man 'refuses to believe' in Acts 14:2 and 19:9.  This proves that man IS ABLE TO BELIEVE, since  are choices.

Man refuses to believe because he is unregenerate. Only a regenerated man is gifted saving faith, because he predestinated and among the elect. 

[BornAgain490]

57 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

This isn't the argument.  I agree with this.  What I strongly disagree with is the claim that God must regenerate the poor 'ol unregenerate so that he CAN believe.  That isn't taught anywhere in the Bible.

Ephesians 2:5,8-9 clearly tell us saving faith is a gift that God gives by His grace. 

[BornAgain490]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

1 hour ago, BornAgain490 said:

Unregenerate man can believe (as in give mental assent toward) anything he hears or reads, but they're unregenerate until they are born again.

Of course.  Like saying, "one is wrong until one is right".  Obviously.  But I'm proving that the unregenerate CAN choose to believe the gospel just as the unregenerate CAN choose to refuse to believe

Unregenerate men are spiritually dead.  Spiritually dead men don't mind anything spiritual. To believe the gospel is to acknowledge that we worship God in spirit and in truth. Dead spirits don't worship. You must first be born again. 

All you've proven is that you don't think God can save a spiritually dead man unless that spiritually dead man first makes a spiritual decision from his lifeless spirit to have saving faith in God, whom we are told to worship in spirit and in truth. Nonsense. 

[BornAgain490]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

1 hour ago, BornAgain490 said:

  Because he is unregenerate, he doesn't have saving faith, he doesn't trust, and doesn't rest in the gospel message,  because he is unregenerate.

You're talking in circles here.  Since the Bible SAYS that men refuse to believe, obviously they would be unregenerate, so their refusal is a choice, just as believing is a choice

Again, spiritually dead men can make all sort of choices, except when it comes to spiritual matters,  because they're spiritually dead. 

Regeneration is the sovereign monergistic providence of the God by His grace, and it's efficacious only to the elect.  

[BornAgain490]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

Humans have to "take God at His word", which means to TRUST what He says.

Correct, except unregenerate man is wholly incapable of doing so. 

[BornAgain490]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

1 hour ago, BornAgain490 said:

  The unregenerate man doesn't even tremble because he isn't saved.

Irrelevant

Irrelevant? 

If unregenerate man isn't saved, that logically means he has not faith that saves, which means he doesn't believe, because he cannot believe.  

[TheBlade]

Reading post.. that I could agree with yet if you really want to make a statement like some have been doing then it needs to be back up by the word of God. Just saying it because we believe it to be true does not make it true. 

Salvation born again, born from above.. yeah I do not believe we understand it and will not until after this  is all over. To know the angels wonder about this and they are with God and they do not understand it they long to .. and we do in a fallen world?  Just thinking.. 

[BornAgain490]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

2 hours ago, BornAgain490 said:

  Only the regenerate man puts his faith, trust, and rest in the gospel of our salvation, because only the regenerate man is saved in Christ.

You can't prove your claim and I have proved my claim from Eph 2:5 and 8.  How about addressing those 2 verses and show me where I'm wrong about what they SAY?

Paul begins Ephesians ch.2 by telling us we are quickened (brought to spiritual life) from what we once were: spiritually dead in trespasses and sins. 

Then Paul immediately reminds us in v.2 that before we were brought to spiritual life, while we were spiritually dead, we were children of the devil. Our desires were focused on fleshly things, and were by nature children of wrath. 

Then in v.4-5 Paul tells us because God loved us, obviously not because we were spiritually dead children of the devil and children of wrath, but for some other reason. 

Whatever the reason was that God loved us, even while we were spiritual dead in our sins, children of the devil and children of wrath, God showed us unmerited favor and quickened us to spiritual life by His grace, gifting us eternal salvation and saving faith.  

Now, when we get to v.10, we find out why God loved us so much that He would unconditionally save us by His grace, and that is this:  God foreordained us as His workmen, created in Christ Jesus unto good works.  

Unconditional election. 

[BornAgain490]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

God's choosing is never unconditional.  Judas was a scoundrel, an opportunist and thief.  Since God knew that he would do what he did, given the opportunity, God chose him to do it, knowing he would.  So you see, Judas was chosen for service.  Not salvation

God chose Judas to do exactly what judas did: betray Christ, get Christ arrested, which eventually brought Christ to be tried, convicted, sentenced, and die, and rise from the grave, in order to fulfill the law and all that the prophets had written.  Judas  was part of God's plan from the beginning. 

[BornAgain490]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

2 hours ago, BornAgain490 said:

Who is choosing the few out of the many?  Sovereign God, unconditionally, by implication.

You don't know whether any of His choices are unconditional

I know that God is sovereign, which means God needs absolutely no assent from sinful man.