" Replacement Theology"

[Anne2]

3 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

I believe that the religion of worshipping YHWH God has not changed, because YHWH God has not changed.

Are you understanding God not changing to religion as in this verse?

Mal 3:6  For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

I do not read it that way. This appears to be a message concerning their protection from destruction. 

This I do believe is speaking about the covenant made with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

An everlasting covenant..

Ge 17:7  And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
Keeping promise to Abraham...

Ex 2:24  And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob.

Remembering his covenant made with Abraham

Ex 6:5  And I have also heard the groaning of the children of Israel, whom the Egyptians keep in bondage; and I have remembered my covenant.
 

His future keeping of the same to them. He does not Change concerning the promise made to their father.

Le 26:44  And yet for all that, when they be in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break my covenant with them: for I am the LORD their God.
Le 26:45  But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their God: I am the LORD.

Abrahamic covenant a covenant of Mercy to them....
De 4:31  (For the LORD thy God is a merciful God;) he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.
 

Sinai/ Horeb, not a covenant made with their father

De 5:2  The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
De 5:3  The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.
 

But the Abrahamic covenant...

1Ch 16:15  Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations;
1Ch 16:16  Even of the covenant which he made with Abraham, and of his oath unto Isaac;
1Ch 16:17  And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant,
 

Wasn't  the feast of Passover, a memorial feast of what God had done for them? Is this not a recall of the fulfillment of the Abrahamic promise to them?

In David also.

The covenant for Israel an EVERLASTING covenant. His covenant of mercy to all...

Ps 105:8  He hath remembered his covenant for ever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations.
Ps 105:9  Which covenant he made with Abraham, and his oath unto Isaac;
Ps 105:10  And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant:

Ps 106:45  And he remembered for them his covenant, and repented according to the multitude of his mercies.

Ps 105:45 makes me think of the same with Moses here..

Ex 32:13  Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever.
14  And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.
 

Ps 111:5  He hath given meat unto them that fear him: he will ever be mindful of his covenant. {meat: Heb. prey }

 

Edited January 16 by Anne2

[Locust]

2 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, @Locust.

Sure, they "blew it." Just as we would have done, had we been in their place! "For ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God!" (Romans 3:23)

God "turned to the nations" "until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in!" (Romans 11:25)

God doesn't "lose to Satan" at all, not in one thing! He will restore the nation of Israel, just as He will restore this earth to the earth before the Flood!

However, we're currently in the "time of Jacob's Trouble," which is the same as "the Tribulation." That is the CRUCIBLE in which the Jews find themselves for now. They have been victims of their own "DESOLATION" since the Messiah "LEFT THEM DESOLATE" (Matthew 23:38; Daniel 9:27).

They've suffered the Roman persecutions; they were hounded from nation to nation throughout the world, and particularly within Europe through the Diaspora. They have helped countries to prosper, but the moment some calamity arises, they were BLAMED for it, and driven out of that country into the next! They were chased from place to place, suffering in the Crusades, the Inquisitions, the Pogroms in Russia, and the Holocaust!

They finally were allowed to move back to their own homeland by the British under the Balfour Declaration, and have suffered terrorist attacks from all the nations surrounding them ever since (and some from within their borders, such as the late-comers, the "Palestinians" (the name being an old Romanization of the term "Philitines").

These "Palestinians," by the way, didn't come FROM "Palestine"; they were INTRODUCED into the Land, exiled by the Jordanians! The Jordanians "SEEDED" the Land with non-Israelis just to make trouble for the new, to-be-formed state of Israel as a homeland for the Jews!

All the same, the children of Israel, particularly the Jews, are MIRACULOUSLY BACK in their Land, and God has blessed them ever since, despite their past infidelity to Him! And, they have since begun to work with the Land to make it prosperous again. Now that it's "blooming like a rose," the Muslims want it for themselves. (They never wanted it when it was a salt-seeded wasteland, salted by the Romans many years earlier to make the Land unlivable.)

Are they there, yet? No. WILL THEY BE? MOST DEFINITELY! "God doesn't renege on His gifts or His calling!" (Romans 11:29) "All Israel shall be saved!" (Romans 11:26a)

It is OUR RESPONSIBILITY to tell them about their Messiah - the Messiah of God whom they missed the first time He came! (To the Jew and the Gentile) "Even so have these also now not believed, that THROUGH YOUR MERCY THEY ALSO MAY OBTAIN MERCY." (Romans 11:31).

Romans 2:1-10 (KJV)

1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. 2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. 3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? 4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? 5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6 Who "will render to every man according to his deeds" (Psalm 62:12; Prov. 24:12) 7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and ALSO OF THE GENTILE; 10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and ALSO TO THE GENTILE:

Later Paul added,

Romans 2:17-29; 3:1-4 (KJV)

17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God, 18 And knowest [his] will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law; 19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness, 20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.

21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal? 22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege? 23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? 24 For "the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you," as it is written (Isa. 52:5, see XII; Ezek. 36:20, 22). 25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. 26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? 27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? 28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God. 1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit [is there] of circumcision? 2 MUCH EVERY WAY: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles (statements; sayings) of God. 3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? 4 GOD FORBID!: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written,

"That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged." (Psalm 51:4)

(Remember: There weren't any chapter divisions before the 15th Century A.D. Even paragraph divisions were questionable.)

So, although they cannot count on being Jews and keeping the Law to justify themselves, for "ALL have sinned!" Nevertheless, they are still the "people of the Book!" And, they are therefore a people still with the greater advantage! We who are Gentiles and of the uncircumcision, are graffed in among them and can be accounted as "Jews" through the circumcision of the heart!

So, they are down, but not out! They SHALL make a come-back, when they are ready to receive God's Messiah for their King. It makes God out to be a LIAR to say otherwise!

no, they are done , the only way any one of them can receive any type of salvation is to except Jesus as the Messiah. become Christians ,followers of Jesus the Christ. 

a few have become christian not going to say they have any greater favor over any others 

[Anne2]

2 minutes ago, Locust said:

no, they are done , the only way any one of them can receive any type of salvation is to except Jesus as the Messiah. become Christians ,followers of Jesus the Christ. 

 

Do you not think there is salvation from God's wrath? and salvation from death itself?

[Retrobyter]

2 hours ago, Alive said:

Hey @Retrobyter

I would like to hear more of your thoughts on the red colored phrase.

I don't think I have ever heard this offered.

Thanks.

Shalom, @Alive.

Sure. Genesis 1 and 2 speak of the Creation of this world. The Arabs talk about how Adam, being the first prophet, was shown that there would be two destructions of the earth, the first one of Water, and second one of Fire.

Peter (Keef or Keefa' in Hebrew, which means a "hollow rock," a "geode") said,

2 Peter 3:3-13 (KJV)

3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying,

"Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as [they were] from the beginning of the creation."

5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

This is the First heavens (skies) and the First earth.

6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

This is the Flood of Noach's day.

7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

This is the Second heavens (skies) and the Second earth, in which we live today.

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 [Seeing] then [that] all these things shall be dissolved, what manner [of persons] ought ye to be in [all] holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

This is the Third heavens (skies) and the Third earth, which will occur AFTER the Fire associated with the "day of judgment and perdition (sentencing) of ungodly men," also called the "Great White Throne Judgment."

A pastor/friend of mine long ago gave me this outline of the Bible:

I. Genesis 1, 2 - What aught to be
II. Genesis 3 - What is
III. Genesis 4-Revelation 22 - How to get from What is to What aught to be

Pretty simplistic, but accurate, for Acts 3:21 says,

Acts 3:1-26 (NKJV)

1 Now Peter and John went up together to the temple at the hour of prayer, the ninth [hour]. 2 And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called "Beautiful," to ask alms from those who entered the temple; 3 who, seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple, asked for alms. 4 And fixing his eyes on him, with John, Peter said,

"Look at us."

5 So he gave them his attention, expecting to receive something from them. 6 Then Peter said,

"Silver and gold I do not have, but what I do have I give you: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, rise up and walk."

7 And he took him by the right hand and lifted [him] up, and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength. 8 So he, leaping up, stood and walked and entered the temple with them--walking, leaping, and praising God. 9 And all the people saw him walking and praising God. 10 Then they knew that it was he who sat begging alms at the "Beautiful Gate" of the temple; and they were filled with wonder and amazement at what had happened to him.

11 Now as the lame man who was healed held on to Peter and John, all the people ran together to them in the porch which is called Solomon's, greatly amazed. 12 So when Peter saw [it], he responded to the people:

"Men of Israel, why do you marvel at this? Or why look so intently at us, as though by our own power or godliness we had made this man walk? 13 The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified His Servant Jesus, whom you delivered up and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let [Him] go. 14 But you denied the Holy One and the Just, and asked for a murderer to be granted to you, 15 and killed the Prince of life, whom God raised from the dead, of which we are witnesses. 16 And His name (authority), through faith in His name, has made this man strong, whom you see and know. Yes, the faith which [comes] through Him has given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.

17 "Yet now, brethren, I know that you did [it] in ignorance, as [did] also your rulers. 18 But those things which God foretold by the mouth of all His prophets, that the Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. 19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, 20 and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until THE TIMES OF RESTORATION OF ALL THINGS, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began. 22 For Moses truly said to the fathers,

"'The LORD your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him you shall hear in all things, whatever He says to you. 23 And it shall be [that] every soul who will not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.'

24 "Yes, and all the prophets, from Samuel and those who follow, as many as have spoken, have also foretold these days. 25 You are sons of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying to Abraham,

"'And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.'

26 "To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one [of you] from your iniquities."

Therefore, there SHALL be the "times of restoration of all things." (The KJV says "the times of restitution of all things.") 

If one will compare the things that happened in Genesis 1 and 2 with the things that are restored in Revelation 21 and 22, one will see that God will REMAKE the earth and its skies to duplicate the original Creation. There will only be many more people to enjoy it.

[Locust]

no fire ..................unless ya live in southern California

[Locust]

3 hours ago, Anne2 said:

Do you not think there is salvation from God's wrath? and salvation from death itself?

the end of death is the promise 

[Retrobyter]

2 hours ago, Luther said:

Isaiah 53:10-12

[10]Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

[11]He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

[12]Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

When you read these verses, can you agree that when " He shall see His seed", His seed would include all Christians, no matter what their background is? It doesn't matter to God so it shouldn't matter to us. 

" for He shall bear their iniquities"

" He bare the sin of many"

Shalom, @Luther.

Yes, I can agree that "His seed" would include all believers, even the Gentile believers who call themselves "Christians," with one proviso: They must first have "made His air-breathing body an offering for sin." Not all Christians have actually done this. While it is true that "He hath made Him to be sin for us, who knew no sin, that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him" (2 Corinthians 5:21), we must actually take that step of making His Sacrifice to be OUR Sacrifice for sin. It is THEN that we can be "JUSTIFIED by God."

2 hours ago, Luther said:

Some Christians won't recognize  prophecy such as this in the OT that it clearly includes all in Christ. They are missing out on the wonderful promises God made to them in the OT as well. So sad. 

This is so VERY true. It is the MEANS by which we may legally be JUSTIFIED BY GOD.

2 hours ago, Luther said:

...............................................

You said: "I believe that the religion of worshipping YHWH God has not changed, because YHWH God has not changed. The Jews, even today's Jews, still are the "People of the Book," and they HAVE the Book in the original language."

Yes, we know that God never changes. Old Testament Israel, even with the Tanakh, and even with all the mighty signs and wonders and promises, on the whole rejected God's law (However there was a remnant that God saved that was able to keep God's law through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ). 

The "remnant" were those who survived the Roman invasion and the Diaspora that followed. The "remnant" now has grown considerably. It was NEVER said to be a "permanent remnant," after all. That's an important concept! The Jews - all the children of Israel - shall return to God and to His Messiah, His "Christ." The prophecy of Hoshea ("Hosea") points out the fact that YHWH God is Israel's "Husband," and they are the "unfaithful wife," as was Gomer to Hoshea. And yet, God had Hoshea BUY her back from the slave market to be his wife again. This will also happen for Israel when God returns and His Messiah begins His reign. He will call for their return from wherever they ended up in the world.

2 hours ago, Luther said:

My point is, you make it seem ( correct me if I'm wrong) like just because they were or are considered " people of the book", the statement  cannot have us conclude that God was with them, that His plans were still with them. Otherwise that would defeat the whole purpose of Jesus Christ ( God forbid). 

Well, Yeeshuwa`s ("Jesus'") name means "He shall save" and His step-father Yowceef ("Joseph") was told, "for He shall save His people from their sins." That prophecy has yet to be fulfilled, but just as ALL of the other 400 prophecies about the Messiah's First Coming were fulfilled literally, so too will these prophecies be fulfilled literally.

2 hours ago, Luther said:

But it gets worse, because their man made traditions, as codified in the  "talmud " ( after the Cross), have become their ultimate authority, not the Tanakh. I say this so you will understand that today's "jews" do not even worship the God of the Old Testament. Judaism's God are the jews collectively as a worldwide family. And that would be the most significant difference between Judaism and the religion of Old Testament Israel. 

Well, some of that may still be in play when the Messiah returns; however, after the Resurrection when their ANCESTORS have returned to life, they will be re-instructed in the truth of God's Word. This prophecy SHALL be fulfilled:

Zechariah 10:1-12 (KJV)

1 Ask ye of the LORD rain in the time of the latter rain; [so] the LORD shall make bright clouds, and give them showers of rain, to every one grass in the field. 2 For the idols have spoken vanity, and the diviners have seen a lie, and have told false dreams; they comfort in vain: therefore they went their way as a flock, they were troubled, because [there was] no shepherd.

3 "Mine anger was kindled against the shepherds, and I punished the goats: for the LORD of hosts hath visited his flock the house of Judah, and hath made them as his goodly horse in the battle. 4 Out of him came forth the corner, out of him the nail, out of him the battle bow, out of him every oppressor together. 5 And they shall be as mighty [men], which tread down [their enemies] in the mire of the streets in the battle: and they shall fight, because the LORD [is] with them, and the riders on horses shall be confounded."

6 "And I will strengthen the house of Judah, and I will save the house of Joseph, and I will bring them again to place them; for I have mercy upon them: and they shall be as though I had not cast them off: for I [am] the LORD their God, and will hear them. 7 And [they of] Ephraim shall be like a mighty [man], and their heart shall rejoice as through wine: yea, their children shall see [it], and be glad; their heart shall rejoice in the LORD. 8 I will hiss (whistle) for them, and gather them; for I have redeemed them: and they shall increase as they have increased. 9 And I will sow them among the people: and they shall remember me in far countries; and they shall live with their children, and turn again. 10 I will bring them again also out of the land of Egypt, and gather them out of Assyria; and I will bring them into the land of Gilead and Lebanon; and [place] (room) shall not be found for them. 11 And he shall pass through the sea with affliction, and shall smite the waves in the sea, and all the deeps of the river shall dry up: and the pride of Assyria shall be brought down, and the sceptre of Egypt shall depart away. 12 And I will strengthen them in the LORD; and they shall walk up and down in his name," saith the LORD.

There are other such passages, like Isaiah 66, and Ezekiel 40-48. They SHALL return to GOD'S Land! After all, He WROTE His Name upon it!

It's HIS Land and He'll put whom He WANTS to be in His Land! 

And, He promised AVraahaam, Yitschaq, Yaa`aaqoV, Yhudaah, David, and Shlomoh, among many others that the children of Israel shall live forever in His Land, and we who are Gentile believers shall also be a part of that, for our Head is the Messiah, and He was AND STILL IS a Jew! Therefore, we are Jews, too, brought into God's mishpaachaah (God's family) THROUGH HIM!

2 hours ago, Luther said:

Friend, all I am saying here is that we have to have all the information at our disposal. You may disagree with my last comments but I am very sure based upon their own statement of belief.

Hope to hear from you. 

May God bless you and me as we grow in the knowledge of the Lord.

[Retrobyter]

5 hours ago, Anne2 said:

Are you understanding God not changing to religion as in this verse?

Mal 3:6  For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

I do not read it that way. This appears to be a message concerning their protection from destruction. 

This I do believe is speaking about the covenant made with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

An everlasting covenant..

Ge 17:7  And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
Keeping promise to Abraham...

Ex 2:24  And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob.

Remembering his covenant made with Abraham

Ex 6:5  And I have also heard the groaning of the children of Israel, whom the Egyptians keep in bondage; and I have remembered my covenant.
 

His future keeping of the same to them. He does not Change concerning the promise made to their father.

Le 26:44  And yet for all that, when they be in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break my covenant with them: for I am the LORD their God.
Le 26:45  But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their God: I am the LORD.

Abrahamic covenant a covenant of Mercy to them....
De 4:31  (For the LORD thy God is a merciful God;) he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.
 

Sinai/ Horeb, not a covenant made with their father

De 5:2  The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
De 5:3  The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.
 

But the Abrahamic covenant...

1Ch 16:15  Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations;
1Ch 16:16  Even of the covenant which he made with Abraham, and of his oath unto Isaac;
1Ch 16:17  And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant,
 

Wasn't  the feast of Passover, a memorial feast of what God had done for them? Is this not a recall of the fulfillment of the Abrahamic promise to them?

In David also.

The covenant for Israel an EVERLASTING covenant. His covenant of mercy to all...

Ps 105:8  He hath remembered his covenant for ever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations.
Ps 105:9  Which covenant he made with Abraham, and his oath unto Isaac;
Ps 105:10  And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant:

Ps 106:45  And he remembered for them his covenant, and repented according to the multitude of his mercies.

Ps 105:45 makes me think of the same with Moses here..

Ex 32:13  Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever.
14  And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.
 

Ps 111:5  He hath given meat unto them that fear him: he will ever be mindful of his covenant. {meat: Heb. prey }

 

I agree with everything you've said! They are ALL about God's people, both the children of Israel, and the Gentiles who believe!

If I'd add anything, it would be the Davidic Covenant that God made with David, promising that His Seed would be "His Son and He would be His Father":

2 Samuel 7:1-17 (KJV)

1 And it came to pass, when the king sat in his house, and the LORD had given him rest round about from all his enemies; 2 That the king (David) said unto Nathan the prophet,

"See now, I dwell in an house of cedar, but the ark of God dwelleth within curtains!"

3 And Nathan said to the king,

"Go, do all that [is] in thine heart; for the LORD [is] with thee."

4 And it came to pass that night, that the word of the LORD came unto Nathan, saying,

5 "Go and tell my servant David,

"'Thus saith the LORD,

"'"Shalt THOU build ME an house for me to dwell in? 6 Whereas I have not dwelt in [any] house since the time that I brought up the children of Israel out of Egypt, even to this day, but have walked in a tent and in a tabernacle. 7 In all [the places] wherein I have walked with all the children of Israel spake I a word with any of the tribes of Israel, whom I commanded to feed my people Israel, saying, 'Why build ye not me an house of cedar?'

8 "Now therefore so shalt thou say unto my servant David,

"'Thus saith the LORD of hosts,

"'"I took thee from the sheepcote, from following the sheep, to be ruler over my people, over Israel: 9 And I was with thee whithersoever thou wentest, and have cut off all thine enemies out of thy sight, and have made thee a great name, like unto the name of the great [men] that [are] in the earth. 10 Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime, 11 And as since the time that I commanded judges [to be] over my people Israel, and have caused thee to rest from all thine enemies."

"'Also the LORD telleth thee that HE will make THEE an house.

12 "'"And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. 14 I WILL BE HIS FATHER, AND HE SHALL BE MY SON. [Notice: He didn't use "like" or "as" in this sentence.] If he commit (be twisted into) iniquity [as happened when "He became sin for us"], I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: 15 But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took [it] from Saul, whom I put away before thee. 16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever."'"

17 According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak unto David.

This promise was repeated to Miryam ("Mary"), Yeeshuwa`s mother, by the messenger GaVriy'eel ("Gabriel"):

Luke 1:30-33 (KJV)

30 And the angel said unto her,

"Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS (Greek: Ieesous = Hebrew: Yeeshuwa` = "He shall save"). 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end."

[Luther]

23 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, @Luther.

Yes, I can agree that "His seed" would include all believers, even the Gentile believers who call themselves "Christians," with one proviso: They must first have "made His air-breathing body an offering for sin." Not all Christians have actually done this. While it is true that "He hath made Him to be sin for us, who knew no sin, that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him" (2 Corinthians 5:21), we must actually take that step of making His Sacrifice to be OUR Sacrifice for sin. It is THEN that we can be "JUSTIFIED by God."

This is so VERY true. It is the MEANS by which we may legally be JUSTIFIED BY GOD.

The "remnant" were those who survived the Roman invasion and the Diaspora that followed. The "remnant" now has grown considerably. It was NEVER said to be a "permanent remnant," after all. That's an important concept! The Jews - all the children of Israel - shall return to God and to His Messiah, His "Christ." The prophecy of Hoshea ("Hosea") points out the fact that YHWH God is Israel's "Husband," and they are the "unfaithful wife," as was Gomer to Hoshea. And yet, God had Hoshea BUY her back from the slave market to be his wife again. This will also happen for Israel when God returns and His Messiah begins His reign. He will call for their return from wherever they ended up in the world.

Well, Yeeshuwa`s ("Jesus'") name means "He shall save" and His step-father Yowceef ("Joseph") was told, "for He shall save His people from their sins." That prophecy has yet to be fulfilled, but just as ALL of the other 400 prophecies about the Messiah's First Coming were fulfilled literally, so too will these prophecies be fulfilled literally.

Well, some of that may still be in play when the Messiah returns; however, after the Resurrection when their ANCESTORS have returned to life, they will be re-instructed in the truth of God's Word. This prophecy SHALL be fulfilled:

Zechariah 10:1-12 (KJV)

1 Ask ye of the LORD rain in the time of the latter rain; [so] the LORD shall make bright clouds, and give them showers of rain, to every one grass in the field. 2 For the idols have spoken vanity, and the diviners have seen a lie, and have told false dreams; they comfort in vain: therefore they went their way as a flock, they were troubled, because [there was] no shepherd.

3 "Mine anger was kindled against the shepherds, and I punished the goats: for the LORD of hosts hath visited his flock the house of Judah, and hath made them as his goodly horse in the battle. 4 Out of him came forth the corner, out of him the nail, out of him the battle bow, out of him every oppressor together. 5 And they shall be as mighty [men], which tread down [their enemies] in the mire of the streets in the battle: and they shall fight, because the LORD [is] with them, and the riders on horses shall be confounded."

6 "And I will strengthen the house of Judah, and I will save the house of Joseph, and I will bring them again to place them; for I have mercy upon them: and they shall be as though I had not cast them off: for I [am] the LORD their God, and will hear them. 7 And [they of] Ephraim shall be like a mighty [man], and their heart shall rejoice as through wine: yea, their children shall see [it], and be glad; their heart shall rejoice in the LORD. 8 I will hiss (whistle) for them, and gather them; for I have redeemed them: and they shall increase as they have increased. 9 And I will sow them among the people: and they shall remember me in far countries; and they shall live with their children, and turn again. 10 I will bring them again also out of the land of Egypt, and gather them out of Assyria; and I will bring them into the land of Gilead and Lebanon; and [place] (room) shall not be found for them. 11 And he shall pass through the sea with affliction, and shall smite the waves in the sea, and all the deeps of the river shall dry up: and the pride of Assyria shall be brought down, and the sceptre of Egypt shall depart away. 12 And I will strengthen them in the LORD; and they shall walk up and down in his name," saith the LORD.

There are other such passages, like Isaiah 66, and Ezekiel 40-48. They SHALL return to GOD'S Land! After all, He WROTE His Name upon it!

It's HIS Land and He'll put whom He WANTS to be in His Land! 

And, He promised AVraahaam, Yitschaq, Yaa`aaqoV, Yhudaah, David, and Shlomoh, among many others that the children of Israel shall live forever in His Land, and we who are Gentile believers shall also be a part of that, for our Head is the Messiah, and He was AND STILL IS a Jew! Therefore, we are Jews, too, brought into God's mishpaachaah (God's family) THROUGH HIM!

May God bless you and me as we grow in the knowledge of the Lord.

You said: "we must actually take that step of making His Sacrifice to be OUR Sacrifice for sin. It is THEN that we can be "JUSTIFIED by God."

I can't agree and I would even use an OT example. When the priest made atonement for the sins of the people, did anyone have the option to " opt out"?  The same goes with Christ's atonement there's nothing more that we can add to that, certainly not. His work was sufficient. 

..................................................

You said: " This will also happen for Israel when God returns and His Messiah begins His reign. He will call for their return from wherever they ended up in the world."

Sorry, once again. I read in Romans 9:

Romans 9:24-25

Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

[25]As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

I believe it's a calling for all of us not just Israel. (And personally I do not see those people in Israel having anything to do with God because they follow a religion of their own making called Judaism which runs antithetic to the Bible).

Matthew 24:30-31

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

[31]And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Isaiah 10:22

For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shall return: the consumption decreed shall overflow with righteousness.

The "sand of the sea" is that "great multitude":

Revelation 7:9-10

After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

[10]And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

.......................................................

You said: "It's HIS Land and He'll put whom He WANTS to be in His Land! "

When I think about what God has prepared for me I think in heavenly terms. Brother, this world is not our home. Why such an infatuation with this current geography?

And when I think of Jesus, I think of Him as Almighty God, and " jew" doesn't cross my mind, nor should it. Jesus was from the  spiritual seed of Abraham. He never ceased to be God, even when He came to earth. But for God's illustrative purpose, He had to have a lineage, thus the tribe of Judah. But that doesn't have any meaning in the eternal sense. Jesus was conceived of the Holy Spirit. And we are born of the Holy Spirit, if in fact we are His. 

And Jews we are spiritually, symbolically, INWARDLY:

Romans 2:28-29

For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

[29]But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

I love being a true Jew! Seriously. 

[Anne2]

Amen, yes retro concerning David...

Something Just to run by you...

The covenant made in gen 15, was the fourth generation of his seed. Thos excludes Isaac, and Jacob, and the generation of the twelve patriarchs.

The covenant made with Abraham in Genesis 17 was the promise of KINGS from him and Sarah.. Though given last, it was in effect first.

Which Hebrews says

Heb 11:9  By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

The same promise, what is it? Abraham has just been promised KINGS

Isaac, is given the promise in being father of the seed of Abraham , that is called. Which was, Jacob being called Israel

Gen 32:27  And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.
28  And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

The same promise of kings

Ge 17:16  And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her. {she … : Heb. she shall become nations }

Ge 17:6  And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

Ge 35:11  And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;

Ga 3:16  Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were all anointed ones.

1 chronicles 15:16  Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations;
16  Even of the covenant which he made with Abraham, and of his oath unto Isaac;
17  And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant,
18  Saying, Unto thee will I give the land of Canaan, the lot of your inheritance; {the lot: Heb. the cord }
19  When ye were but few, even a few, and strangers in it. {few, even: Heb. men of number, etc }
20  And when they went from nation to nation, and from one kingdom to another people;
21  He suffered no man to do them wrong: yea, he reproved kings for their sakes,
22  Saying, Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm.

The anointed seed Kings are anointed, and priests are anointed Melchizedek was king/priest at once

So to David.....

He as well I believe received the same promise of a king form his loins

"'Also the LORD telleth thee that HE will make THEE an house.

12 "'"And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. 14 I WILL BE HIS FATHER, AND HE SHALL BE MY SON. [Notice: He didn't use "like" or "as" in this sentence.] If he commit (be twisted into) iniquity [as happened when "He became sin for us"], I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: 15 But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took [it] from Saul, whom I put away before thee. 16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever."'"

Therefore the Gospel of Matthew begins 

1 ¶  The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
And Hebrews

Heb 2:16  For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Angels here I think might be priesthood of Levi. As found in Malachi

Mal 2:7  For the priest’s lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger 04397 of the LORD of hosts.

04397 מלאך mal’ak mal-awk’

from an unused root meaning to despatch as a deputy; n m; [BDB-521b] {See TWOT on 1068 @@ "1068a"}

AV-angel 111, messenger 98, ambassadors 4, variant 1; 214

1) messenger, representative
1a) messenger
1b) angel
1c) the theophanic angel 

This all goes to Galatians princes vs kings IMO

Edited January 17 by Anne2