Resurrection as Birth

[Feedmysheep]

Christ being the Son of God in eternity had only divinity.

Christ being designated the Son of God at His resurrection made humanity divinized, glorified, uplifted and able to sit upon the throne of God as God-man for eternity.

Christ being born the Son of God in Mary's womb brought God into man. Christ being raised the Son of God as the Firstborn brought humanity into God.

Christ as the only begotten Son could not indwell man to be man's eternal life until resurrection.

In resurrection He opened the way to bring many brothers with the life of God in them to co-express the the mingling of divinity and humanity as the church and finally the New Jerusalem.

Christ the Son as the only begotten could only be outside of man.  In Acts when Paul says Christ was declared the Firstborn Son and designated the Firstborn Son He could live within man to be their life. The angel told the apostles to go speak the words of this life, this indwelling Person who is eternal life.

Go and stand in the temple and speak to the people all the words of this life. (Acts 5:20) 

Christ born as the Firstborn Son of God in resurrection became the pneumatic Christ who can give God into our inner being.

[T]he last Adam became a life giving Spirit. (1 Cor. 15:45b)

What a salvation Christ accomplished to redeem us and impart the life of God into us for the glorification of our humanity to be like His. 

 

 

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, Feedmysheep said:

 There is an additional crucial status that Christ attained when He was resurrected. On the day He was raised He was declared the Son of God.

Demons called Jesus the Son of God in Matt 8:29.

His disciples called Him the Son of God in Matt 14:33.

Peter acknowledged Jesus as the Son of God in Matt 16:16

Jesus admitted He was the Son of God to the Pharisees in Matt 26:63,64

1 hour ago, Feedmysheep said:

This birth of the Firstborn Son of God was according to the promise of God to the OT fathers.

The promise was fulfilled when Mary delivered Jesus.

1 hour ago, Feedmysheep said:

1.) Christ was declared this Son of God in power  at His resurrection.

His resurrection demonstrated His power.

1 hour ago, Feedmysheep said:

2.) The pinnacle of Romans is really chapter 8.  Here we see the eternal purpose of God is to conform all the saved into the image of the Firstborn Son of God.  In fact to those who love God He assures He engineers all things and the entire creation to accomplish this goal.

This will be fulfilled at the resurrection of "those who belong to Him" "when He comes", the Second Advent.  1 Cor 15:49 and 1 Tim 3:2

1 hour ago, Feedmysheep said:

 

 

[Feedmysheep]

On 1/7/2025 at 8:21 AM, Vine Abider said:

Yes, a brand new critter (as one brother I know likes to say) - many sons brought into glory by the one grain falling into the ground to die!

I am glad you mentioned John 12:24. I believe this verse gives us strong ground to understand resurrection as the birth of something new.

Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless the grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it abides alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit. (John 12:24) 

Christ would not "abide alone".  The divine life and glory that were concealed within the shell of His humanity He longed to release into many brothers. The many brothers are the "much fruit."  And the many sons are the duplication of the Firstborn Son in resurrection.

But to produce the "much fruit" there was no other way except the shell of His human shell be broken to release that life which was concealed within it. He had to go into the ground in death cracking open the concealing shell. 

The release of the divine life from the death and resurrection of Christ was called by Him- His glorification. For before verse 24 we have v. 23- And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. (v. 23) 

The duplication of the this One is accomplished by the release of the divine life into a corporate mass reproduction. This mass reproduction is also the glorification of the Son of Man. 

[Feedmysheep]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

 

<<<His resurrection demonstrated His power.>>>

Included in Christ's power is the power to cause us to be one with Him at every stage. 

 First, in Romans God's power eventually to produce many brothers conformed to the image of the Firstborn Son of God. 

Because those whom He foreknew, He also predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the Firstborn among many brothers; (Rom. 8:29) 

The end section of chapter 8 underscores that NOTHING can stop or stand in the way of God fulfilling His eternal purpose. 

For I am persuaded that neither death nor life nor angels nor principalities nor things present nor things to come nor powers

Nor height nor depth nor any other creature will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (vs. 38,39) 

The power of Christ's resurrection is to transmit this salvation to the uttermost down into His church. The power is not just for us but toward us.

And what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the operation of the might of His strength,

Christ birth as the Firstborn Son of God unleashes power to make us one with Him. Not merely forgiven but become corporately His fullness. 

Which He caused to operate in Christ in raising Him from the dead and seating Him at His right hand in the heavenlies,

Far above all rule and authority and power and lordship and every name that is named not only in this age but also in that which is to come;

And He subjected all things under His feet and gave Him to be Head over all things to the church,

Which is His Body, the fullness of the One who fills all in all. (Eph. 1:19-23)

[T]o the church and toward us who believe indicate a transmission of this power down from the Head of the Body to the Body. It causes us to be not simply observers, spectators, admirers, but PARTAKERS of the divine nature. 

Seeing that His divine power has granted to us all things which relate to life and godliness, through the full knowledge of Him who has called us by His own glory and virtue,

Through which He has granted to us precious and exceedingly great promises that through these you might become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption which is in the world by lust. (2 Pet. 1:3,4)

 

Edited January 8 by Feedmysheep

[FreeGrace]

2 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

<<<His resurrection demonstrated His power.>>>

Included in Christ's power is the power to cause us to be one with Him at every stage. 

 First, in Romans God's power eventually to produce many brothers conformed to the image of the Firstborn Son of God. 

Because those whom He foreknew, He also predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the Firstborn among many brothers; (Rom. 8:29) 

The end section of chapter 8 underscores that NOTHING can stop or stand in the way of God fulfilling His eternal purpose. 

For I am persuaded that neither death nor life nor angels nor principalities nor things present nor things to come nor powers

Nor height nor depth nor any other creature will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (vs. 38,39) 

The power of Christ's resurrection is to transmit this salvation to the uttermost down into His church. The power is not just for us but toward us.

And what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the operation of the might of His strength,

Christ birth as the Firstborn Son of God unleashes power to make us one with Him. Not merely forgiven but become corporately His fullness. 

Which He caused to operate in Christ in raising Him from the dead and seating Him at His right hand in the heavenlies,

Far above all rule and authority and power and lordship and every name that is named not only in this age but also in that which is to come;

And He subjected all things under His feet and gave Him to be Head over all things to the church,

Which is His Body, the fullness of the One who fills all in all. (Eph. 1:19-23)

[T]o the church and toward us who believe indicate a transmission of this power down from the Head of the Body to the Body. It causes us to be not simply observers, spectators, admirers, but PARTAKERS of the divine nature. 

Seeing that His divine power has granted to us all things which relate to life and godliness, through the full knowledge of Him who has called us by His own glory and virtue,

Through which He has granted to us precious and exceedingly great promises that through these you might become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption which is in the world by lust. (2 Pet. 1:3,4)

Still not seeing anything in the Bible that refers to the resurrection of believers as a birth.

The NEW birth is regeneration, not resurrection.

[Feedmysheep]

On 1/7/2025 at 8:40 AM, AdHoc said:

 

<<<You have your work cut out for you. There is a New Creation in Colossians, based on resurrection. All men join in this because all men are to be resurrected (1 Cor.15:22, John.5:28-99). But there is another New Creature taken out of Two entities in Ephesians 2:15. Not all men partake of this New Man. In it old things are passed away, including ethnicity (Gal.3:28, Col.3:11). There is NO Jew and NO Greek in the New Man. But in New Jerusalem which comes down from a New Heaven, we have Church, Israel and the Nations.>>>

This is an excellent point on Gal. 3:28; Col. 3:11.  The normal new covenant church can only be built in resurrection working within us all to make Christ everybody, everything in the Body of Christ.

 As we grow in this resurrection life's transforming nature we become sensative with when our culture is being placed higher than the indwelling Christ. 

No Greek or Jew does not mean we no longer speak our national language or have our national or ethinic culture. It does mean that when we see that we are insisting on our national or ethnic philosophy of life in preference to Christ regulating our lives from within, we are happy and willing to "take the cross".

Then the normal church life will be filled with one Person - Christ living in us. And Christ is  everybody in the congregation. And Christ has the last word in all things eventually not our national philosophy or domistic logic of out culture.

 

Edited January 9 by Feedmysheep

[Feedmysheep]

Readers a question or two to stimulate more participation.

Which Gospel brings out the most that Christ's resurrection was the BIRTH of a new humanity? 

i would say the Gospel of John perhaps the most clearly intends to communicate this matter of Christ's new birth was in resurrection. For starters I submit John 16:21,

A woman, when she gives birth, has sorrow because her hour has come; but when she brings forth the little child, she no longer remembers the affliction because of the joy that a man has been born into the world. (John 16:21) 

The question is was this merely a miscellaneous idle analogy? I think something quite deeper lies beneath this simple word picture.

Christ's resurrection was the BIRTH of a particular special kind of MAN into the world.   

Not only this, but John, perhaps more than the synoptic gospels, intends to show the brothers came into existence only because of the resurrection of Christ the Elder Brother - the Firstborn to whom the many must be  redeemed / regenerated / transformed / conformed / glorified thoroughly from their center to their circumference. 

 We'll explore this claim in the next few posts about  the Gospel of John.

 

Edited January 8 by Feedmysheep

[AdHoc]

7 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

 There is an additional crucial status that Christ attained when He was resurrected. On the day He was raised He was declared the Son of God. This was the Firstborn Son of God in addition to Him being the  only begotten Son of God.

This birth of the Firstborn Son of God was according to the promise of God to the OT fathers.

 From this man’s seed, God, according to promise, brought to Israel a Savior, Jesus, (Acts 13:23) . . . That God has fully fulfilled this promise to us their children in raising up Jesus, as it is also written in the second Psalm, “You are My Son; this day have I begotten You.”

And as to His having raised Him up from the dead, no longer to return to corruption, He spoke in this way, “I will give you the holy things of David, the faithful things.” (vs. 33,34)

 Paul gave this message. And Paul wrote also in Romans about this declaration of the Firstborn Son who is the divine agenda of God. 

1.) Christ was declared this Son of God in power  at His resurrection.

 . . . the gospel of God, Which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the holy Scriptures,

Concerning His Son, who came out of the seed of David according to the flesh,

Who was designated the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness out of the resurrection of the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord;

2.) The pinnacle of Romans is really chapter 8.  Here we see the eternal purpose of God is to conform all the saved into the image of the Firstborn Son of God.  In fact to those who love God He assures He engineers all things and the entire creation to accomplish this goal. 

And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.

Because those whom He foreknew, He also predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the Firstborn among many brothers; (Rom. 8:28,29)

3.) What follows is Paul's outline that begins with God's predestination on through to the end point of glorification.

And those whom He predestinated, these He also called; and those whom He called, these He also justified; and those whom He justified, these He also glorified. (v.30)

This marvelous outline shows the process predestination --->calling ---> justification --->glorification

  Notice also that all these operations are in the past tense. This must mean that in the eyes of God who transcends time all has been accomplished. We who exist in time may be assured that God cannot be stopped eventually bringing all the Christians to this high peak of glorification, man expressing the divine life of God in splendour. 

 

You address a very important issue. For whatever reason, the bulk of Christianity are fixed on a system of improved laws. Their overwhelming thrust is to replace the 613 odd Laws of Moses with those of Jesus. Nicodemus probably thought this too. But there is a grand change in God's economy. It is no more a moral standard that the Lord seeks (although this is a logical result). He seeks the life of His Son Jesus displayed by the Christian. Our Lord Jesus was incarnated and born both Son of God and Son of man. He then lived a HUMAN life energized and directed by the divine life.

It is not that God wanted a hoard of little gods. He made, and wanted, MEN. But He wanted men in the image and likeness of the MAN Jesus, but driven by His Life. For this, God took a perfect man and put him in front of the Tree of Life. The idea was to make the MAN operate like Christ. He told Philip; "if you have seen me you have seen the Father". But He was still "veiled" by His flesh. That is, God wanted men to be like men but motivated and energized by the life of Christ. The observer would see a man but find his behavior remarkable. John 7:39 shows this process. I include the context;

37  In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

The verse at once gives a difficulty. The word "given" is not in the original. If one follows the original text it seems to say that the Spirit "was not yet". But we all know that the Spirit is eternal and co-existent with Christ from eternity past. The solution I believe is that we should not read it merely as the Holy Spirit. We should, as the text gives, read it as "the Spirit WHICH THEY THAT BELIEVE ON HIM WOULD RECEIVE". The verse shows that the Holy Spirit needs some thing to happen before it is qualified to be given to the saints. It is not merely the Spirit (although He be complete from age to age), but the Spirit to which the glory of human resurrection was added.

Some expositors maintain that the glory here mentioned is His rapture to the right hand of His Father on high. But this cannot be for it was a glory AFTR which the saints would receive the Spirit. And this happened on resurrection day (Jn.20:17-22). Our Lord Jesus had two vital duties before men could receive the Spirit; 1. Present His blood in the heavenly Tabernacle, and 2. present Himself to the Lord of the harvest as "Firstfruits out of the dead". The point though, is, something had to be added to the Holy Spirit before we could receive the Spirit that was specially "tailored" for us humans.

To the average student of the Bible, this sounds too much to accept. Is not the Spirit complete in all things? Yes He is! But he fact that our Lord Jesus was divine and eternal implies an addition to Him of "BECOMING Flesh". And so the whole package of human experience was added to Jesus and then the Father adds this experience to men's spirits and demands that they make it a "Law of Life".

That is the New Testament Economy.

[FreeGrace]

2 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

Readers a question or two to stimulate more participation.

Which Gospel brings out the most that Christ's resurrection was the BIRTH of a new humanity? 

The "new humanity", or as the Bible describes it in 2 Cor 5:17, a "new creation" or "new creature".  This refers to believers being RE-generated, or born AGAIN, or "made alive" (Eph 2:5).  Regeneration didn't begin at the resurrection of Jesus, but when the first person in humanity placed their faith in the coming Messiah.  So people have been born AGAIN throughout humanity.

2 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

 i would say the Gospel of John perhaps the most clearly intends to communicate this matter of Christ's new birth was in resurrection. For starters I submit John 16:21,

A woman, when she gives birth, has sorrow because her hour has come; but when she brings forth the little child, she no longer remembers the affliction because of the joy that a man has been born into the world. (John 16:21) 

The question is was this merely a miscellaneous idle analogy?

I think so, because there is no such thing in the Bible as "Christ's new birth".  That would indicate that Christ was "born again", which makes no sense.  He was raised to life with an immortal body, a resurrection body. 

Was Lazarus' coming out of the grave a "new birth"?  Obviously not.  There is no support for that kind of wording in the Bible.

2 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

I think something quite deeper lies beneath this simple word picture.

Christ's resurrection was the BIRTH of a particular special kind of MAN into the world. 

It appears what you are thinking about is the "new creature/creation" of 2 Cor 5:17, which describes the believer as being born AGAIN, meaning his dead human spirit was given LIFE (eternal).  

2 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

 Not only this, but John, perhaps more than the synoptic gospels, intends to show the brothers came into existence only because of the resurrection of Christ the Elder Brother - the Firstborn to whom the many must be  redeemed / regenerated / transformed / conformed / glorified thoroughly from their center to their circumference.

What do you mean by "the brothers came into existence because of the resurrection of Christ the elder brother"?  What verse says this? 

I'm not aware of any verse that speaks of "brothers coming into existence because of the resurrection of Christ".

2 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

 

 

[Your closest friendnt]

On 1/7/2025 at 11:18 AM, Feedmysheep said:

Christ as the Firstborn from the dead is not to be confused with Christ as the Firstborn of all creation. The latter term involves Christ's incarnation. The former term involves His resurrection. 

Colossians covers both Christ as the Firstborn of all creation and the Beginning, the  Firstborn from the dead.

 

Who is the image of the invisible God, the Firstborn of all creation,

Because in Him all things were created, in the heavens and on the earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or lordships or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through Him and unto Him.

And He is before all things, and all things cohere in Him;

And He is the Head of the Body, the church; He is the beginning, the Firstborn from the dead, that He Himself might have the first place in all things;

I am more concerned here with "the Beginning, the Firstborn from the dead".   But because the Apostle Paul wanted to establish that Christ is maximally preeminent in every realm, he wrote "that He Himself might havefirst place in all things." 

In the old creation Christ as a created man made that human being the top created thing of all created things. God is uncreated and eternal.But God clothed Himself with flesh. The Word became flesh (John 1:14). In doing so the created man of flesh became the topmost important item in all creation - the Firstborn of all creation.

In resurrection He brought back to the eternal throne of God an uplifted and glorified humanity which He will never again put away for all eternity. This was something new. And this was "the Beginning" of a new God-man "species". He is now "the Beginning, the Firstborn from the dead." 

Will see more how Christ's resurrection was the BIRTH of the Firstborn Son of God - much more than merely coming back to life. But He initiated the new creation - the mingling of divinity and humanity upon the eternal throne for all eternity.

I do not see your accersions in the bible. 

Jesus was a different man from any other Jewish man or from any of the people of God in the Sinai Covenant. 

To begin with he was calling himself the Son of Man. 

Edited January 9 by Your closest friendnt