Pretrib Rapture is a Lie

[BornAgain490]

1 minute ago, enoob57 said:

It is clear you do not understand the pretrib position by this statement... let me encourage you to understand a subject before you critique it...

I know the pretribulation rapture better than most: it's a doctrine of man that is filled with scrpture-twisting and unbiblical assumptions. In short: it's a deception, but it appeals to the flesh, and it tickles the ear, which is why so many sinners love to hear it preached. 

[enoob57]

Just now, BornAgain490 said:

I know the pretribulation rapture better than most: it's a doctrine of man that is filled with scrpture-twisting and unbiblical assumptions. In short: it's a deception, but it appeals to the flesh, and it tickles the ear, which is why so many sinners love to hear it preached. 

You need to learn the difference between persecution and God's wrath in Scripture ... then we might talk but probably not! Your posting methods are unacceptable for scholarly debate... a lot of words with little scholarship...

[BornAgain490]

7 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

You need to learn the difference between persecution and God's wrath in Scripture ... then we might talk but probably not! Your posting methods are unacceptable for scholarly debate... a lot of words with little scholarship...

You think great tribulation is God's wrath, but it's not.  Great (megale: intense or widespread) tribulation (thlipsis: distress, trouble, persecution) is not God's wrath, but widespread intense persecution of the saints. Prove me wrong. 

[enoob57]

Revelation 6:15 (KJV)

[15] And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

[16] And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

[17] For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

 

[BornAgain490]

18 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

 

Revelation 6:15 (KJV)

[15] And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

[16] And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

[17] For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

 

 

This scripture is not great tribulation; this is God's wrath. 

Before God pours out His wrath, we read in chapter 5 that saints both dead and alive on earth sing praise to the Lord:

Rev. 5:13 "And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all that is in them, saying:

“To Him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power forever and ever!” 

This is before God pours out His wrath in ch. 6. 

Then,  when ch. 6 begins we see the antichrist and the four horses of the revelation come to persecute (bring great widespread and intense persecution) on the earth with wars, famines, pestilence, a crooked economy, and death.  (Rev. 6:1-8).  Then in v.9 we see the slain saints.  In v.12 we see the the prophetic signs begin to take place that Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24, which must come before His second coming, otherwise Jesus was wrong. 

 

 

[enoob57]

I usually don't wrangle over prophetic work... you stated

Quote

You think great tribulation is God's wrath, but it's not.  Great (megale: intense or widespread) tribulation (thlipsis: distress, trouble, persecution) is not God's wrath, but widespread intense persecution of the saints. Prove me wrong. 

thus, I quoted a verse that God's wrath had begun in the time of tribulation making the statement above that it is only persecution wrong... That Tribulation is a time of God's wrath and 

1 Thessalonians 5:9 (KJV)

[9] For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

 

[kwikphilly]

I know everyone stands firm on ' their' interpretation or stance regarding a Rapture and whether it's pre,mid or post but quite frankly- I couldnt care any less than I do..... His Grace is Sufficient ,I have a Full Pardon,Im good

Im sure my attitude has much to do with the fact I do not Believe we are anywhere near days that look anything like Sodom & Gemorrah YET- I don't Believe America is going to exist on the planet when these things really start to unfold and my age is a contributing factor,I think I'll be fast asleep when all hell breaks loose on earth

I think more about a New Heaven & a New Earth than the passing of the old..... set your mind on things Above,Lovely ,Pure,Holy- the Good News!

No one prepared me for Suffering from Cancer- who cares? My Lord Will Never Leave me nor Will He Forsake me..... Be of Good Cheer

With Love in Christ, Kwik

[BornAgain490]

31 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

thus, I quoted a verse that God's wrath had begun in the time of tribulation

Gods wrath is not poured out to overlap the great persecution.  Remember what Jesus said in Matthew 24:29, "Immediately AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days..." THEN the cosmic disturbances occur, then His sign shall appear in heaven, then all the tribes shall mourn, and then they shall see Jesus coming in great glory, and THEN he shall gather His elect. (vv.29-31).  

Great tribulation and God's wrath in the end are two distinct occurrences, not overlapping events. 

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, BornAgain490 said:

You think great tribulation is God's wrath, but it's not.  Great (megale: intense or widespread) tribulation (thlipsis: distress, trouble, persecution) is not God's wrath, but widespread intense persecution of the saints. Prove me wrong. 

I agree that there will be no pre-trib rapture/resurrection, but the fact that the tribulation will be God's wrath poured out on the earth is obvious from the words of Revelation.  There will be 3 sets with 7 each wraths on the earth.  It is not believers who will be targeted, but everyone, except the 144,000.  

[BornAgain490]

4 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

the tribulation will be God's wrath poured out on the earth.  

The thing is: tribulation (thlipsis) is never used to describe God's wrath (orge) or Satan's wrath (thymos).