There Won't Be A Millennium On This Earth, Jesus Returns In Fire And Final Judgement (The End)

[truth7t7]

3 hours ago, tatwo said:

Greetings @truth7t7...been a while since we "talked."

For clarity...are you suggesting that the millennial kingdom as you put it...will happen...just not on this earth...? Or is it that you are saying there is no millennial kingdom...period?

Isn't Yahshua on this earth in a literal physical Body...today?

Redd...:)

Jesus isn't physically on this earth today, scripture teaches Jesus returns in fire and final judgment (The End), there won't be a Millennial Kingdom following

Edited January 25 by truth7t7

[Neighbor]

 

John 16:5-15

 

 

 

[abcdef]

13 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Jesus isn't physically on this earth today,

I agree. Jesus will not be coming back to this planet. We will meet Him in the air. Then this planet is burnt toast.

 

13 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

scripture teaches Jesus returns in fire and final judgment

There are only 2 resurrections.

The first one was Jesus and the OT saints in 33 AD.

The second is when He comes for those who are His.

After that it is the end when death is destroyed. 1 Cor 15:23-28 is a parallel passage to Rev 20,21,22.

The coming  for the kingdom is also seen at the 7th trumpet and the 2 witnesses.

 

13 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

(The End), there won't be a Millennial Kingdom following

What is the millennium? 

I believe that the number 1000 is symbolic like many other numbers in the Revelation.

The OT saints rule from heaven. They rule over the gospel kingdom that began on Pentecost. 

Satan, the dragon v 2, is only bound in that he cannot return to heaven and he cannot destroy the children of Israel.

 

[Serving]

On 1/23/2025 at 8:24 PM, truth7t7 said:

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV

1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV

29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV

7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV

2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV

6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV

3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV

5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV

15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV

12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV

5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.

6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Greetings,

It might sound convincing to you friend, but it does not convince me. 

I too can see how it would appear within the lens/doctrine you are describing it, to me it is a narrow view confined by somebody's interpretation who was no better than you or I at understanding God's word.  But God has a way with words, and He reveals that He uses them in a way that is not always as they seem, He says He does this so that the wise of this world can not (fully) understand.

I also believe, concerning the wise of this world, He is also speaking about those (that won't understand) who start religions for profit and notoriety and power and for control also, OR, that started with pure intentions but have become infiltrated by evil men unawares .. that is why, to me, it seems all denominations have one thing in common when it comes to prophecy, and that is that they ALL only have part of the truth each on any given prophecy/subject .. one says this, one says that, one says something else etc etc etc etc almost on every doctrinal/prophetic level with few agreements/interpretations universally agreed upon .. 

So who is right?

Well, I know what kind of follower I am towards the Lord, especially in private where no man sees me .. but these other men who created these perspectives/interpretations that denominations have adopted .. I know not the manner of men they are in private.

I refuse to base my salvation on another mans/church's interpretation .. never have, never will. My search will be my own, and my understanding comes from my personal covenant of sacrifice unto the Lord and the understanding which comes from my personal walk with Him .. this way, no man can deceive me, I can only deceive myself .. God forbid.

That being said, back to my stating that God has a way with words designed to confuse .. Just take the example of the elements being burned up .. well what elements? I have heard several different denominations that I have looked up thus far some time ago, out of curiosity, describing the elements as literal compounds, earth, water, air etc being destroyed .. and that is in the exact manner you have been taught to view it, and are presenting it .. but not me, I do not agree. 

When I searched out this matter for and by myself just over a decade ago, I found these scriptures below, thus this is an alternative example/definition/explanation I myself found whilst putting all things together :

Galatians 4:3
Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:

Galatians 4:9
But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

You see?

There is an alternative perspective when looked at free of denominational doctrines on even that ONE single explanation that disagrees with the way you and yours are presenting it. Yet, to me, it does not require the physical destruction of planet earth at all .. NOT YET .. but reveals another perspective that does not require total annihilation of our planet at that stage and at that time .. which thing still allows a very physical and very same planet earth we have today being "used" during the millennial reign of Christ .. altered landscapes/environs sure .. but the same planet earth nevertheless, and not a new heaven & earth for now.

Now the other points here :

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

It is not saying to me, that the earth itself will be melted and burned up, as in .. earth is no more, it is totally vaporized, no ..

It, to me, is speaking of all of mankind's works he created on this world and her  systems of beliefs/types of rule etc that will be destroyed .. except for a few exceptions (types of works) that will be used by the people during the 1000 year millennial reign of Christ (type in "durable clothing" for a KJV search and you will see an example of a product made today, being stored up for the people of the millennial reign) . not the resurrected saints, but "Durable clothing" for the humans that live and die during said Millennial reign.

The heaven's passing away with a great noise is harder to explain, I do not hold a clear understanding on that declaration, but I sure can postulate on alternative explanations, but I openly admit .. that one itself I can not explain with an actual scriptural quote/example .. but that in itself does not bother me so much within my understanding, that is, it is not imperative that I have an actual biblical quote/verse answer within the context I myself understand is being said because, as I said before .. I can still postulate on it's meaning with some examples that could qualify as a credible explanation, just not actual biblical quotes like the one I gave earlier for the elements.

The whole point of the new heaven and the new earth is the creation of an eternal "habitat" where evil no longer exists.

But scriptures clearly show the old earth still here when Jesus returns and reigns 1000 years and is only "replaced/destroyed" at a future point in time.

And why is God going to create a new heaven and a new earth in the first place?

Because the heaven and all things in it have been worshipped by man throughout history, thus by association alone, it is forever tainted and would ever remain a reminder of evil times .. BUT .. that is not going to happen if you make a new heaven and earth, otherwise, how can the; "Former things shall no longer come to mind" come about after all is said and done if we were looking at the same skies we are looking at right now for all eternity? It would forever remind us & come to mind, but God said the former things (our world as it is and has been so long now) will NOT come to mind, sooo .. a new heaven & earth is a must need in that context.

In conclusion, there are many scriptures explaining the millennial reign of Christ on the same planet we share today taking place for 1000 years before new heaven and new earth, and the reason for this millennial kingdom is simple .. God made promises to the father's.

But Israel failed in her mission, and for the sake of those aforementioned promises unfulfilled even today, Israel will, however, this time round (future),fulfill her role as a light to the nations as God originally intended for them .. the nations being the unbelieving survivors of the wrath of God process that repopulate the earth over the millennium .. and the resurrected saints shall amongst other things, be their, millennial Israel's (invisible) guides when they travel out into the world to preach to the nations as they were meant to do originally .. but failed.

Of course there is a lot more to it, I am merely giving a few examples for arguments sake and offering an alternative view, one that can be backed biblically (your overall post that is, not just these few examples I gave) just as much as you have demonstrated biblically too ..

But please, always keep your heart open to alternative views if only to provoke your critical thinking skills .. always seek to disprove your own or others interpretations by arming yourself with greater and greater knowledge by reading the bible over and over again which will give you a far wider understanding on every matter rather than the narrow perspective the churches etc give, giving favour to no man or institution nor teacher because simply put .. Christ told us to not only become as our teachers (become as peers all together) but to even surpass them and all of us together becoming well learned and learning instead from men, but directly from the Great Teacher Himself through the Holy Spirit He has put within us .. The Lord Jesus Christ Himself. 

And that can only be done through a PRIVATE "covenant of sacrifice" with God,  not a covenant with men and their churches who all disagree, but with God. Rise above them, none if us know who any of them were/are in private after all now .. do we? Not worth the risk. Don't let other men's measure of spirit/understanding stifle your own measure of spirit/understanding, who knows, your measure of spirit that God metes out might in fact be intended to surpass your teachers measure of spirit .. but you would never meet that measure if you never question the questioner for and by YOURSELF.  

Cheers.

 

 

Edited January 25 by Serving
typo

[truth7t7]

10 hours ago, abcdef said:

There are only 2 resurrections.

The first one was Jesus and the OT saints in 33 AD.

I Disagree with your claim above that those that came out of the grave were "Resurrected" in 33AD, they were "Raised From The Dead" just as Lazarus and Tabitha were

Jesus taught that the resurrection of "All" takes place at the second coming on the last day

Paul clearly taught that when Jesus returns the resurrection of the dead takes place, (Then Cometh The End) its that simple 

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV

21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The resurrection of "All" is seen below and the wicked are judged to eternal damnation, this is when the "Final Judgement" takes place (The End)

As Daniel Clearly Describes At The Time Of Great Tribulation, And Final Judgement those "Written In The Book"

Daniel 12:1-2KJV

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

John 5:28-29KJV

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 Jesus clearly taught that the resurrection of "All" takes place on "The Last Day" this is in perfect agreement with the scripture above

John 6:39-40KJV

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Edited January 26 by truth7t7

[Marathoner]

On 1/24/2025 at 2:52 PM, tatwo said:

Isn't Yahshua on this earth in a literal physical Body...today?

Indeed. Hence, the Body of Christ. 

[truth7t7]

7 hours ago, Serving said:

Greetings,

It might sound convincing to you friend, but it does not convince me. 

I too can see how it would appear within the lens/doctrine you are describing it, to me it is a narrow view confined by somebody's interpretation who was no better than you or I at understanding God's word.  But God has a way with words, and He reveals that He uses them in a way that is not always as they seem, He says He does this so that the wise of this world can not (fully) understand.

I also believe, concerning the wise of this world, He is also speaking about those (that won't understand) who start religions for profit and notoriety and power and for control also, OR, that started with pure intentions but have become infiltrated by evil men unawares .. that is why, to me, it seems all denominations have one thing in common when it comes to prophecy, and that is that they ALL only have part of the truth each on any given prophecy/subject .. one says this, one says that, one says something else etc etc etc etc almost on every doctrinal/prophetic level with few agreements/interpretations universally agreed upon .. 

So who is right?

Well, I know what kind of follower I am towards the Lord, especially in private where no man sees me .. but these other men who created these perspectives/interpretations that denominations have adopted .. I know not the manner of men they are in private.

I refuse to base my salvation on another mans/church's interpretation .. never have, never will. My search will be my own, and my understanding comes from my personal covenant of sacrifice unto the Lord and the understanding which comes from my personal walk with Him .. this way, no man can deceive me, I can only deceive myself .. God forbid.

That being said, back to my stating that God has a way with words designed to confuse .. Just take the example of the elements being burned up .. well what elements? I have heard several different denominations that I have looked up thus far some time ago, out of curiosity, describing the elements as literal compounds, earth, water, air etc being destroyed .. and that is in the exact manner you have been taught to view it, and are presenting it .. but not me, I do not agree. 

When I searched out this matter for and by myself just over a decade ago, I found these scriptures below, thus this is an alternative example/definition/explanation I myself found whilst putting all things together :

Galatians 4:3
Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:

Galatians 4:9
But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

You see?

There is an alternative perspective when looked at free of denominational doctrines on even that ONE single explanation that disagrees with the way you and yours are presenting it. Yet, to me, it does not require the physical destruction of planet earth at all .. NOT YET .. but reveals another perspective that does not require total annihilation of our planet at that stage and at that time .. which thing still allows a very physical and very same planet earth we have today being "used" during the millennial reign of Christ .. altered landscapes/environs sure .. but the same planet earth nevertheless, and not a new heaven & earth for now.

Now the other points here :

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

It is not saying to me, that the earth itself will be melted and burned up, as in .. earth is no more, it is totally vaporized, no ..

It, to me, is speaking of all of mankind's works he created on this world and her  systems of beliefs/types of rule etc that will be destroyed .. except for a few exceptions (types of works) that will be used by the people during the 1000 year millennial reign of Christ (type in "durable clothing" for a KJV search and you will see an example of a product made today, being stored up for the people of the millennial reign) . not the resurrected saints, but "Durable clothing" for the humans that live and die during said Millennial reign.

The heaven's passing away with a great noise is harder to explain, I do not hold a clear understanding on that declaration, but I sure can postulate on alternative explanations, but I openly admit .. that one itself I can not explain with an actual scriptural quote/example .. but that in itself does not bother me so much within my understanding, that is, it is not imperative that I have an actual biblical quote/verse answer within the context I myself understand is being said because, as I said before .. I can still postulate on it's meaning with some examples that could qualify as a credible explanation, just not actual biblical quotes like the one I gave earlier for the elements.

The whole point of the new heaven and the new earth is the creation of an eternal "habitat" where evil no longer exists.

But scriptures clearly show the old earth still here when Jesus returns and reigns 1000 years and is only "replaced/destroyed" at a future point in time.

And why is God going to create a new heaven and a new earth in the first place?

Because the heaven and all things in it have been worshipped by man throughout history, thus by association alone, it is forever tainted and would ever remain a reminder of evil times .. BUT .. that is not going to happen if you make a new heaven and earth, otherwise, how can the; "Former things shall no longer come to mind" come about after all is said and done if we were looking at the same skies we are looking at right now for all eternity? It would forever remind us & come to mind, but God said the former things (our world as it is and has been so long now) will NOT come to mind, sooo .. a new heaven & earth is a must need in that context.

In conclusion, there are many scriptures explaining the millennial reign of Christ on the same planet we share today taking place for 1000 years before new heaven and new earth, and the reason for this millennial kingdom is simple .. God made promises to the father's.

But Israel failed in her mission, and for the sake of those aforementioned promises unfulfilled even today, Israel will, however, this time round (future),fulfill her role as a light to the nations as God originally intended for them .. the nations being the unbelieving survivors of the wrath of God process that repopulate the earth over the millennium .. and the resurrected saints shall amongst other things, be their, millennial Israel's (invisible) guides when they travel out into the world to preach to the nations as they were meant to do originally .. but failed.

Of course there is a lot more to it, I am merely giving a few examples for arguments sake and offering an alternative view, one that can be backed biblically (your overall post that is, not just these few examples I gave) just as much as you have demonstrated biblically too ..

But please, always keep your heart open to alternative views if only to provoke your critical thinking skills .. always seek to disprove your own or others interpretations by arming yourself with greater and greater knowledge by reading the bible over and over again which will give you a far wider understanding on every matter rather than the narrow perspective the churches etc give, giving favour to no man or institution nor teacher because simply put .. Christ told us to not only become as our teachers (become as peers all together) but to even surpass them and all of us together becoming well learned and learning instead from men, but directly from the Great Teacher Himself through the Holy Spirit He has put within us .. The Lord Jesus Christ Himself. 

And that can only be done through a PRIVATE "covenant of sacrifice" with God,  not a covenant with men and their churches who all disagree, but with God. Rise above them, none if us know who any of them were/are in private after all now .. do we? Not worth the risk. Don't let other men's measure of spirit/understanding stifle your own measure of spirit/understanding, who knows, your measure of spirit that God metes out might in fact be intended to surpass your teachers measure of spirit .. but you would never meet that measure if you never question the questioner for and by YOURSELF.  

Cheers.

 

 

Not trying to convince you, God's words are ture before your eyes

Jesus returns in fire and its not going to be a boy scout camp fire

Luke 17:29-30KJV

29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

[tatwo]

On 1/24/2025 at 7:36 PM, truth7t7 said:

Jesus isn't physically on this earth today, scripture teaches Jesus returns in fire and final judgment (The End), there won't be a Millennial Kingdom following

Thank you for answering my questions...they were just to clarify to me what you were saying and this in the light of so many different irreconcilable teachings, ideologies, doctrines of demons concerning the eschaton that are put forth here at Worthy.

In terms of Yahshua (Jesus) "not being here on the earth physically...today"...as you are apparently portraying...if this is true that you believe this aberration of truth as you wrote it...you then...paint a picture of a "headless" body on the earth called "Christ."

If that is fact is your stance @truth7t7 and you are welcome to it...however...it reveals an ignorance as to who the person of the Lord Yahshua Christ actually is? In that state it would be very difficult for me to take as "authorized by the Holy Spirit" anything that is being put forth by anyone who seemingly does not actually and spiritually know who Christ is...as is presented in your statement of answer.

Tatwo...:)

[truth7t7]

2 hours ago, tatwo said:

Thank you for answering my questions...they were just to clarify to me what you were saying and this in the light of so many different irreconcilable teachings, ideologies, doctrines of demons concerning the eschaton that are put forth here at Worthy.

In terms of Yahshua (Jesus) "not being here on the earth physically...today"...as you are apparently portraying...if this is true that you believe this aberration of truth as you wrote it...you then...paint a picture of a "headless" body on the earth called "Christ."

If that is fact is your stance @truth7t7 and you are welcome to it...however...it reveals an ignorance as to who the person of the Lord Yahshua Christ actually is? In that state it would be very difficult for me to take as "authorized by the Holy Spirit" anything that is being put forth by anyone who seemingly does not actually and spiritually know who Christ is...as is presented in your statement of answer.

Tatwo...:)

Your response went in circles three times and had no presented outcome

[Keras]

16 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Isn't it obvious that there has to be a gap between these two verses?

Jesus does not Return, then immediately hand the Kingdom back to God. Many Prophesies tell about His rule on earth for a long time and Revelation 20 specifies - in 6 verses: that time as a thousand years. It is blatant disregard for the Prophetic Word, to reject a clear statement, especially bad from the Book of Revelation. 

To believe that all the dead Christians will be resurrected at the Return, is another serious mistake, as Rev 20:4-6 clearly says that only the GT martyrs will be resurrected.