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Posted
8 hours ago, Luther said:

Predestination is very Biblical.

Here is a thought experiment: if predestination were Biblical, then that would mean, that prior to creating angels or earthling man, God exercised his powers of foreknowledge and foresaw and foreknew all that would result from such creation, including the rebellion of the first human pair in Eden  and all the bad consequences of such rebellion down to and beyond this present day. This would necessarily mean that all the wickedness that history has recorded (the crime and immorality, oppression and resultant suffering, lying and hypocrisy, false worship and idolatry) once existed, before creation’s beginning, only in the mind of God, in the form of his foreknowledge of the future in all of its minutest details.  

If the Creator of mankind had indeed exercised his power to foreknow all that history has seen since man’s creation, then the full weight of all the wickedness thereafter resulting was deliberately set in motion by God when he spoke the words: “Let us make man.” (Ge 1:26) These facts bring into question the reasonableness and consistency of the predestinarian concept; particularly so, since the disciple James shows that disorder and other vile things do not originate from God’s heavenly presence but are “earthly, animal, demonic” in source.—Jas 3:14-18.
 

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Posted
1 hour ago, ayin jade said:

I so agree with you.

I do want to reiterate that I AM active in a local church. I discuss theology here because I'm interested in having a better understanding. And as I mentioned here previously, I avoid doctrinal discussions in my church because some folks get emotional about it and so I just stick to the basics of loving and obeying Jesus including loving one another. To me that's probably all that really matters.


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Posted
Just now, Marston said:

I do want to reiterate that I AM active in a local church. I discuss theology here because I'm interested in having a better understanding. And as I mentioned here previously, I avoid doctrinal discussions in my church because some folks get emotional about it and so I just stick to the basics of loving and obeying Jesus including loving one another. To me that's probably all that really matters.

I had posted that prior to seeing your post on attending a church. Sorry to offend. 


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Posted
2 minutes ago, ayin jade said:

I had posted that prior to seeing your post on attending a church. Sorry to offend. 

Oh no, I'm not offended at all. I greatly appreciate your friendship and feedback. Please don’t hold back! 

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Posted
6 hours ago, Marston said:

God might want all to be saved but it's been explained to me that God doesn't get what he wants. God sent Jesus but Jesus will FAIL to save all, or so I've been taught.

But all have the chance depending on the decisions individuals make and I thought that was the question.   If you go along with predetermined, then why did Jesus die for us, God had already decided who he would choose.

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Posted
9 minutes ago, other one said:

If you go along with predetermined, then why did Jesus die for us, God had already decided who he would choose.

Excellent reasoning!


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Posted
32 minutes ago, other one said:

But all have the chance depending on the decisions individuals make and I thought that was the question.   If you go along with predetermined, then why did Jesus die for us, God had already decided who he would choose.

Great points!


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Posted
8 hours ago, Marston said:

God might want all to be saved but it's been explained to me that God doesn't get what he wants. God sent Jesus but Jesus will FAIL to save all, or so I've been taught.

What has been "explained" to you is quite wrong.  Since Jesus died on the cross "once for all" He succeeded in providing the free gift of eternal life to all who simply believe in His finished work on the cross on their behalf.  That's not failur, except in the eyes of Calvinists, who mistakenly believe that His death saves "only the elect".

Titus 2:11 - For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.

The verse is clear:  God in grace offers salvation to everyone.  Not even Calvinists can explain away this verse.

So, the kingdom of God is open to everyone.  But the sole criteria is faith in the finished work of Christ on the cross.  That is beyond clear.

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Posted
12 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

He succeeded in providing the free gift of eternal life to all who simply believe in His finished work on the cross on their behalf.

I would say that there is more to it than that.


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Posted
4 minutes ago, other one said:

FreeGrace said:

He succeeded in providing the free gift of eternal life to all who simply believe in His finished work on the cross on their behalf.

I would say that there is more to it than that.

Are you referring to being saved, getting into the kingdom, or something else?

There is the first issue of how to become a child of God.  Once that is obtained, there is the issue of how one should live their life; either being obedient or self centered.

How a saved person lives their life has no bearing on being with God forever, but a huge bearing on whether their life on earth will be blessed or disciplined (ouch!) and whether they will be rewarded in eternity.

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