Yes, Jesus meant TODAY in his message to the thief on the cross

[AdHoc]

5 hours ago, Frits said:

Greetings @AdHoc,
Hebrews 9 is about the perfect Sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ. In verses 25 and 26 it is indicated that He did not have to be offered often for sins and suffer, but for this purpose He was manifested once.

The parallel is continued
and the similarity in verses 26, 27 and 28 is expressed by the word 'once'. The 'once' death of man, and the 'once' sacrifice of the Lamb of God!
It was appointed for man to die 'once', and after that the judgment. (v27) And it was appointed for Jesus Christ to die once, that after that He might be clothed in the majesty of God's glory.
Because of this, in the New Testament, the people who love and worship the Lord Jesus Christ will no longer come into judgment, but they will see Him after their death and receive salvation from Him. (v28) Hallelujah!

Frits

And now you have created more difficulty for yourself. If there is no judgment then what means;
1. 1 Pe 4:17

17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us .

2. Romans 14:10–12 

10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. 12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

3. 2 Co 5:8–10

 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

4. Mt 25:19.

19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them

       

[Your closest friendnt]

6 hours ago, Frits said:

Greetings @AdHoc,
Hebrews 9 is about the perfect Sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ. In verses 25 and 26 it is indicated that He did not have to be offered often for sins and suffer, but for this purpose He was manifested once.

The parallel is continued
and the similarity in verses 26, 27 and 28 is expressed by the word 'once'. The 'once' death of man, and the 'once' sacrifice of the Lamb of God!
It was appointed for man to die 'once', and after that the judgment. (v27) And it was appointed for Jesus Christ to die once, that after that He might be clothed in the majesty of God's glory.
Because of this, in the New Testament, the people who love and worship the Lord Jesus Christ will no longer come into judgment, but they will see Him after their death and receive salvation from Him. (v28) Hallelujah!

Frits

The author of the Letter to Hebrews is making a bold statement. He is addressing his letter to those who were once under the Covenant of Sinai and they had the blessing to be called Israelites. To be included in the blessing God put upon Jacob and for that reason He called him Israel. To take a Nation for himself out of his children and their children's children. 

Before that Jacob was one of the Hebrews and the Hebrews were not defined as his children. 

But the author called them Hebrews and he also called himself a Hebrew. 

He makes a big statement with just calling the Israelites Hebrews. Including the Levites and the Priesthood he is addressing all of them as Hebrews. He even takes them far away before Abraham's Cirumcision and he is telling them you are the children of your Patriarch to whom I have attached you by  calling you Hebrews. 

He only called Hebrews the present generation and the future ones and not their forefathers and not the twelve Patriarhs and generations thereafter till the Cross of Jesus Christ. 

He is making them think. The were born Israelites and grew up in the Sinai Covenant but now as He is addressing them in the New Covenant they are like the other Sons of Abraham and the other Son of Issac who were in the Cirumcision but exluded from the blessings to Abraham and their children's children were not included in the Covenant of Sinai. And all this by calling them Hebrews. 

 

[Your closest friendnt]

@Frits

Jesus called himself "The Son of Man". He did this repeatedly. He wanted to bring to the memory of the people to the time when the King said: we throw three people in the fire pit but now there four.

And after saying they are four he said but one of them is deferent from them. And he said: "He looks like the :SON OF MAN".

This Jesus was telling them wanting to tell them that I look like you but I am not like you I am a different man. I have a glory that sets me apart of you. I am a man like no other man ever in Israel. 

I did not say the world but in Israel because it was the Nation seperated from the rest of the world. The Nation of God with their Priesthood.  

And then Jesus is telling them something about himself when he made the water wine. He told them you are the vessels of the water and God have children from you filled with this wine. But this soon will come to the end. And God will have children from you filled with this wine from my wine I put into these stone vessels. The same stone vessels with new wine in them. 

I will give them this wine. I will put what I have in them filled them up with my wine.

Empty them first and then filled them up, No mixing the two.

From what I have I will give them and they will be different than you. They will look like like you but they will be different from you. 

So Jesus looked like them but it was not like them. He was deferent from them. 

To the Jew the unclean things had power over him. This why he tried to avoid touching anything unclean. Even when accidentaly touches something unclean he will become unckean. Even eating something unclean and without touching it still it had power over him. 

These are some of the Jew traits and he could be cleansed with the Cleansing ceremonies as in the book of Leviticus. 

For Jesus was deferent that any other Jew because the unclean had no power over him, but rather the opposite He had power over the unclean. 

He touched the lepers and they became clean. The scriptures said: You will know the Messiah by the works he does. 

The Jew needed the cleansing laws and without them he will become unclean and remain unclean. The Jew yes but not Jesus. 

Edited April 22 by Your closest friendnt

[Frits]

3 hours ago, AdHoc said:

And now you have created more difficulty for yourself. If there is no judgment then what means;
1. 1 Pe 4:17

17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us .

2. Romans 14:10–12 

10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. 12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

3. 2 Co 5:8–10

 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

4. Mt 25:19.

19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them

       

Joh 3:18 KJV

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

In the sense of condemnation, the same word as judgment. (Strong G2919)

Rom 8:1 KJV

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Edited April 22 by Frits

[AdHoc]

2 hours ago, Frits said:

Joh 3:18 KJV

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

In the sense of condemnation, the same word as judgment. (Strong G2919)

Rom 8:1 KJV

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

And so the chaos is complete. You have pitted scripture against scripture - making the Bible to contradict itself. But let us answer now lest the infidel gloat.

God has two righteouses. Aaron has a special ritual for the day of Atonement. If he follows the ritual precisely he may enter the Holy of Holies and survive. If he does what he likes he will be slain. But if he do the precise ritual on any other day he dies. That is, God has established a righteousness or justification (if you like) and Aron must fulfill a ritual to survive.

But Aaron is a man under Law. he might do the ritual of Yom Kippur correctly for 40 years, but if he breaks the Law of Moses he will die. It is up to him to keep the Law. And so he establishes HIS righteousness.

The Christian is the same. God is a holy God. You will not survive approaching Him even if you have kept yourself from sin, for our best works are like sanitary towels  (lit. Heb - Isa.64:6). So God establishes His standard by the works of Christ and takes that righteousness and imputes it to men. There is a condition though. You must believe in Jesus, His position and His Work. If you do this (have faith) you are seen as having the righteousness of Christ and can stand before God without judgment.

But the Christian has been saved by Christ's work FOR A REASON. He is to display Jesus in his disposition before men and he s to build the Church. For this he must give an account of himself. In this matter the Christian is REWARDED or suffers loss. It is his behavior AFTER salvation that gets him a crown and ges him entry into the kingdom and the Wedding  Feast. So for justification before God you must put on Christ (Rom.13:14, Gal.3:27), but for entry into the Wedding Feast YOU have to "prepare YOUR garment" (Rev.19:7-8).

And so, my verses decide whether I may be a steward of the Lord and be a guest at the Wedding Feast, and your scriptures decide whether I may approach the Tree of Life.

Take care.

[Your closest friendnt]

16 hours ago, Frits said:

Joh 3:18 KJV

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

In the sense of condemnation, the same word as judgment. (Strong G2919)

Rom 8:1 KJV

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Our deeds are before the Lord are not hidden and then what does he wants to do. Maybe he leaves us alone for a while. But the time will come he will shake us like the mother shakes her puppies. We understand that he rewards those who diligently seek him and some times he quides us and wait for us to find our way. 

He can be gentle and He can be strong.

And the time comes that our sins catch up with us and we cannot avoid the consequences. Yes Jesus gets involved in our lives and if we loose our consciousness in what we are doing somehow he will help us to find it.

To those who were doing the wrong things and their deeds did not represent him and he is not glorified in them, the time came to let them know that he does not want them close to him and that their place is far away from him. When they repent and walk his way then it will be different. This happens during their life and were ministers somehow. 

Romans 8:1 is about our spiritual standing in his name, in his righteousness that we cannot be condemned and also includes something else and as it is written it mentions that we are not standing contempt if we are obedient to him.

We are believers we  are not contemn and we cannot be condemned but he can judge our deeds and behavior and he can tell us that he wants us to do something about it. 

Or he can rewards us for our good deeds as we learn in Revelation chapter 2 and 3. 

This is happening when it can be beneficial while we are still living. This is the time to know when we do good and reap the rewards. Now is the time to correct one's self and continue to grow. 

Edited April 23 by Your closest friendnt

[Retrobyter]

19 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Dear Brother, you have gone to great lengths to make a simple statement mean something else. 

Shalom, @AdHoc.

It's not the TEXT that is fiction; it's the READING AND UNDERSTANDING what was not meant by the author to be something else that is fiction!

19 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Our Lord Jesus gave a sign of a man who went "down" - Jonah. He then ROSE after 3 days. Language transmits ideas and there is NO AMBIGUITY and every reason to believe that our Lord went "down" to the "heart of the earth" (Matt.12:40).

However, in this case, there's nothing in the text of the book of Yonah ("Jonah") to suggest that he actually died and came back to life. He SURVIVED his ordeal of being swallowed by a "great fish." Furthermore, the "heart of the earth" is only the proverbial "6 feet under," not 3,963 MILES under!

What MAY help (although I'm not going to hold my breath) is that the word "SOUL" is also treated differently than it was in Biblical times. The word that Yeeshuwa` used and understood was "נֶפֶשׁ" or "nefesh" (pronounced "NEH-fesh"). The word means "a breathing creature," and it's root word - a verb - is "נָפַשׁ" or "naafash" (pronounced "naw-FASH"), meaning "to breathe." I like to add the word "air" because what else would human beings "breathe?" It's not some "immaterial part of a human being"; it's the part of the human being that "BREATHES" air! Now, what part of the human being might that be?

See, this didn't change until the Greeks influenced the Jews and the believing Jews and Gentiles (Christians) with their philosophy and mythology around the early 200s A.D. Randy Alcorn calls this influence "Christo-Platonism" in his book on Heaven.

19 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Acts Chapter 2 says that God did not leave His "SOUL" in Hades.

There is no such thing as a "fictional reading". There is only "reading" and believing what you have just read.

Peter was quoting Scripture when he said,

Acts 2:25-31 (KJV)

25 "For David speaketh concerning him,

"'I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved: 26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: 27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.' (Psalm 16:8-11)

29 "Men [and] brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne (2 Samuel 7:12-16); 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that 'his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.'"

The Greek of Acts 2:25-28 is ...

ΠΡΑΞΕΙΣ 2:25-28 (Scrivener's Textus Receptus 1894)

25 Δαβὶδ γὰρ λέγει εἰς αὐτόν, Προωρώμην τὸν Κύριον ἐνώπιόν μου διὰ παντός· ὅτι ἐκ δεξιῶν μού ἐστίν, ἵνα μὴ σαλευθῶ· 26 διὰ τοῦτο εὐφράνθη ἡ καρδία μου, καὶ ἠγαλλιάσατο ἡ γλῶσσά μου· ἔτι δὲ καὶ ἡ σάρξ μου κατασκηνώσει ἐπ’ ἐλπίδι· 27 ὅτι οὐκ ἐγκαταλείψεις τὴν ψυχήν μου εἰς ᾅδου, οὐδὲ δώσεις τὸν ὅσιόν σου ἰδεῖν διαφθοράν. 28ἐγνώρισάς μοι ὁδοὺς ζωῆς· πληρώσεις με εὐφροσύνης μετὰ τοῦ προσώπου σου.

Transliterated into English letters, the highlighted portion reads,

hoti ouk egkataleipseis teen psucheen mou eis haidou.

This translates into English as,

that not thou-shalt-abandon the air-breather of-me into [the] unseen (unknown).

And, this is a quotation from Psalm 16:8-11:

Psalm 16:8-11 (KJV)

8 I have set the LORD always before me: because [he is] at my right hand, I shall not be moved. 9 Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope. 10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 11 Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence [is] fulness of joy; at thy right hand [there are] pleasures for evermore.

And, the Hebrew of this passage is this:

T'hilim 16:8-11 (Westminster Leningrad Codex)

8שִׁוִּ֬יתִי יְהוָ֣ה לְנֶגְדִּ֣י תָמִ֑יד כִּ֥י מִֽ֝ימִינִ֗י בַּל־אֶמֹּֽוט׃

9לָכֵ֤ן ׀ שָׂמַ֣ח לִ֭בִּי וַיָּ֣גֶל כְּבֹודִ֑י אַף־בְּ֝שָׂרִ֗י יִשְׁכֹּ֥ן לָבֶֽטַח׃

10כִּ֤י ׀ לֹא־תַעֲזֹ֣ב נַפְשִׁ֣י לִשְׁאֹ֑ול לֹֽא־תִתֵּ֥ן חֲ֝סִידְךָ֗ לִרְאֹ֥ות שָֽׁחַת ׃

11תֹּֽודִיעֵנִי֮ אֹ֤רַח חַ֫יִּ֥ים שֹׂ֣בַע מָחֹות אֶת־פָּנֶ֑יךָ נְעִמֹ֖ות בִּימִינְךָ֣ נֶֽצַח׃

The highlighted portion transliterates to ...

lo'-ta`azoV  nafshiy lish'owl

It translates into English as ...

Not-thou-shalt-abandon my-air-breathing-creature to-asked-about.

[Frits]

6 hours ago, AdHoc said:

And so the chaos is complete. You have pitted scripture against scripture - making the Bible to contradict itself. But let us answer now lest the infidel gloat.

Thank you very much for your warning. But can you be more specific about what chaos you mean? And where exactly does the Bible contradict itself in your opinion?

[Your closest friendnt]

On 4/21/2025 at 7:09 PM, AdHoc said:

Maybe you can answer the scriptures I posted and their grammar. Our Lord Jesus DID something that the Father highly prized. The Father administered a REWARD. This implies that the Father JUDGED Him worthy. Our Lord Jesus had every right to refuse the Father's request that the innocent die for the guilty. He indicated in Gethsemane that He would rather the cup pass. But, despite sweating blood, He agreed to the horrors that any man who takes the SINS (yes, all of the needed to be paid for). If the Father esteemed Him highly AND REWARDED HIM, then God made a judgment. In our case, when the Lord returns He sits on a traveling throne and we must give an account. In Hebrews Jesus tells Mary that He must ascend to His Father (Jn.20:17). Hebrews tells why. To PRESENT His blood (Heb.9:12).

I cannot see any other meaning to be "counted worthy" without somebody making a JUDGMENT. 

1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus; 2 Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house. 3 For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses ... (Heb 3:1–3.)

God promised to Abraham to  provide the Lamb. Issac is not that Lamb but He will provide the Lamb. Someone with a uniqueness that sets him apart from Issac. 

God announced Issac's birth by an Angel before he was born who named him Issac in a similar way God announced the birth of Jesus by an Angel who called his name Jesus. 

God also announced the birth of John the Baptist by an Angel who called him John.

And we have Samson. God also announced his birth by an Angel who called him Samson. 

And Samuel when God announced his birth by the High Priest. 

In Isaac's and John the Baptist and Samson's and Samuel births their birth was announced also to their Fathers. By an Angel who called their name. And thus we know their Fathers. 

But the distinction is made with Jesus when his birth was announced by the Archangel Gabriel only to Mary his mother to be. 

Every one of them had a proud father to boast that he is my son but not the same with Jesus when Joshef said I am not his Father, I have nothing to do with him till the Angel announced to him that he is from God and asked him to take care of the unborn baby as if it was his own. 

At the Baptist of Jesus in the Jordan River God gave the witness that Jesus was his Son. 

God asked his Son Jesus to die on the Cross.

Jesus said just before the Cross that there is no any other way to accomplish what he had to accomplish without dieing on the Cross. 

Jesus knew that he had to die. He willingly march to his death to the Cross. Jesus knew that if he does not died he cannot be glorified. 

Before hand he Knew that the Father will give him the Heavenly Kingdom and sit him on the Throne to his right only after he dies on the Cross. 

After the Cross God fulfilled his part of the Agreement he had with Jesus Christ when Jesus died on the Cross. 

And God kept his word. 

It was an agreement between Jesus and his Father. 

Jesus did what the Father had asked him and the Heavenly Father kept his word and did to Jesus what had promised before hand that he will do. God did not have a choice He was bound by his own word. Jesus die first in obedience to him then He had to do what He had to do. To keep  his word and do what he had promised to do. 

Do we call this a Judgment? 

[Locust]

4 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

God asked his Son Jesus to die on the Cross.

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