Yes, Jesus meant TODAY in his message to the thief on the cross

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, Locust said:

show me

It is in the testimonies of Jesus Christ and through out the prophetic which Jesus Christ fulfilled. 

In the Garden Jesus said in his prayer "your will be done". Knowing that he was about to be betrayed and arested. 

Edited April 23 by Your closest friendnt

[Locust]

2 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

It is in the testimonies of Jesus Christ and through out the prophetic which Jesus Christ fulfilled. 

In the Garden Jesus said in his prayer "your will be done". Knowing that he was about to be betrayed and arested. 

i dont see the word cross

[Your closest friendnt]

35 minutes ago, Locust said:

i dont see the word cross

Do you see how the Romans executed those who were sentence to death at that time. 

And at that time we had the leaders and Priest who had power over the Jews and they had power to sentence their people to death and their manner was by stoning. 

Two possibilities for Jesus to die in the hands of the Romans or in the hands of the Jewish customs.

Jesus had said: That only the Father knows the time of the last events. Jesus knew how he will die from the beginning and he knew when and on what day. 

Jesus knew that he was the Passover lamb of God. 

And of course the Father knew it too and it was all in the prophetic. 

They will pierced his hands and feet and Jesus had said that the Son of man will be lifted up like Moses lifted up the Bronze Serpent in the dessert. 

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, Locust said:

i dont see the word cross

Jesus knew how he will die and that he will carry his Cross on the way, and this is what he said while this day was getting closer. If you want to be my disciples pick up your CROSS and follow me.

Jesus knew about the coming persecutions and that some of his disciples will die and some in the same way as him. Some who show him as the King in their visions and themselves living in the Royal Palace as they were thinking, with that statement Jesus tried to sober them up.

He said "take the Cross and follow me" and Jesus was also punished and recieved the lasses on the way to the Cross. 

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, Locust said:

i dont see the word cross

When Moses lifted up the Bronze Serpent in the desert he may have lifted him up on a stick. And perhaps on elevated ground for people to see him from afar. And that's what you and me would have done. 

The Serpent had no hands like a man has and no feet and that lead men to improvise and we have the Cross and man thinks and we have different kinds of Crosses. Does it matter. 

 

[Locust]

2 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Jesus knew how he will die and that he will carry his Cross on the way, and this is what he said while this day was getting closer. If you want to be my disciples pick up your CROSS and follow me.

Jesus knew about the coming persecutions and that some of his disciples will die and some in the same way as him. Some who show him as the King in their visions and themselves living in the Royal Palace as they were thinking, with that statement Jesus tried to sober them up.

He said "take the Cross and follow me" and Jesus was also punished and recieved the lasses on the way to the Cross. 

this thing you call a cross .if it were stood up but with the cross member below the feet of the man nailed to it ,would you still call it a cross? 

such a device would aid in standing and laying it back down.

[Locust]

3 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Do you see how the Romans executed those who were sentence to death at that time. 

And at that time we had the leaders and Priest who had power over the Jews and they had power to sentence their people to death and their manner was by stoning. 

Two possibilities for Jesus to die in the hands of the Romans or in the hands of the Jewish customs.

Jesus had said: That only the Father knows the time of the last events. Jesus knew how he will die from the beginning and he knew when and on what day. 

Jesus knew that he was the Passover lamb of God. 

And of course the Father knew it too and it was all in the prophetic. 

They will pierced his hands and feet and Jesus had said that the Son of man will be lifted up like Moses lifted up the Bronze Serpent in the dessert. 

a pole with cross member was not the only way Rome put men to death . the cross member was used to extend the torture . 3-4 days 

[AdHoc]

15 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, @AdHoc.

It's not the TEXT that is fiction; it's the READING AND UNDERSTANDING what was not meant by the author to be something else that is fiction!

However, in this case, there's nothing in the text of the book of Yonah ("Jonah") to suggest that he actually died and came back to life. He SURVIVED his ordeal of being swallowed by a "great fish." Furthermore, the "heart of the earth" is only the proverbial "6 feet under," not 3,963 MILES under!

What MAY help (although I'm not going to hold my breath) is that the word "SOUL" is also treated differently than it was in Biblical times. The word that Yeeshuwa` used and understood was "נֶפֶשׁ" or "nefesh" (pronounced "NEH-fesh"). The word means "a breathing creature," and it's root word - a verb - is "נָפַשׁ" or "naafash" (pronounced "naw-FASH"), meaning "to breathe." I like to add the word "air" because what else would human beings "breathe?" It's not some "immaterial part of a human being"; it's the part of the human being that "BREATHES" air! Now, what part of the human being might that be?

See, this didn't change until the Greeks influenced the Jews and the believing Jews and Gentiles (Christians) with their philosophy and mythology around the early 200s A.D. Randy Alcorn calls this influence "Christo-Platonism" in his book on Heaven.

Peter was quoting Scripture when he said,

Acts 2:25-31 (KJV)

25 "For David speaketh concerning him,

"'I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved: 26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: 27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.' (Psalm 16:8-11)

29 "Men [and] brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne (2 Samuel 7:12-16); 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that 'his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.'"

The Greek of Acts 2:25-28 is ...

ΠΡΑΞΕΙΣ 2:25-28 (Scrivener's Textus Receptus 1894)

25 Δαβὶδ γὰρ λέγει εἰς αὐτόν, Προωρώμην τὸν Κύριον ἐνώπιόν μου διὰ παντός· ὅτι ἐκ δεξιῶν μού ἐστίν, ἵνα μὴ σαλευθῶ· 26 διὰ τοῦτο εὐφράνθη ἡ καρδία μου, καὶ ἠγαλλιάσατο ἡ γλῶσσά μου· ἔτι δὲ καὶ ἡ σάρξ μου κατασκηνώσει ἐπ’ ἐλπίδι· 27 ὅτι οὐκ ἐγκαταλείψεις τὴν ψυχήν μου εἰς ᾅδου, οὐδὲ δώσεις τὸν ὅσιόν σου ἰδεῖν διαφθοράν. 28ἐγνώρισάς μοι ὁδοὺς ζωῆς· πληρώσεις με εὐφροσύνης μετὰ τοῦ προσώπου σου.

Transliterated into English letters, the highlighted portion reads,

hoti ouk egkataleipseis teen psucheen mou eis haidou.

This translates into English as,

that not thou-shalt-abandon the air-breather of-me into [the] unseen (unknown).

And, this is a quotation from Psalm 16:8-11:

Psalm 16:8-11 (KJV)

8 I have set the LORD always before me: because [he is] at my right hand, I shall not be moved. 9 Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope. 10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 11 Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence [is] fulness of joy; at thy right hand [there are] pleasures for evermore.

And, the Hebrew of this passage is this:

T'hilim 16:8-11 (Westminster Leningrad Codex)

8שִׁוִּ֬יתִי יְהוָ֣ה לְנֶגְדִּ֣י תָמִ֑יד כִּ֥י מִֽ֝ימִינִ֗י בַּל־אֶמֹּֽוט׃

9לָכֵ֤ן ׀ שָׂמַ֣ח לִ֭בִּי וַיָּ֣גֶל כְּבֹודִ֑י אַף־בְּ֝שָׂרִ֗י יִשְׁכֹּ֥ן לָבֶֽטַח׃

10כִּ֤י ׀ לֹא־תַעֲזֹ֣ב נַפְשִׁ֣י לִשְׁאֹ֑ול לֹֽא־תִתֵּ֥ן חֲ֝סִידְךָ֗ לִרְאֹ֥ות שָֽׁחַת ׃

11תֹּֽודִיעֵנִי֮ אֹ֤רַח חַ֫יִּ֥ים שֹׂ֣בַע מָחֹות אֶת־פָּנֶ֑יךָ נְעִמֹ֖ות בִּימִינְךָ֣ נֶֽצַח׃

The highlighted portion transliterates to ...

lo'-ta`azoV  nafshiy lish'owl

It translates into English as ...

Not-thou-shalt-abandon my-air-breathing-creature to-asked-about.

Thank you for your informative posting. If you insist of using an unusual translation like "the air-breather" I have no objection. What is important is the way scripture uses the word. This is answered in two sentences. 1. Man was "formed" from the clay, given a spirit which held his vitality (Jas.2:26) and man BECAME a living soul, it being not in existence before it is said by scripture to have been created. 2. From this creation came the man. The Bible calls man a "SOUL" (Gen.12:5, 17:14 etc, etc,)

So when a man does anything it is his "soul" that is the man. At death the three parts are sundered - the body returning to the clay, the spirit returning to God and the SOUL going to a place under the earth called Hades. There is no complexity with the structure of man and the Bible with one of the best pedigrees was translated by 49 of the best Hebrew and Greek students of their day. A further study of the SOUL of man will show that it is made up of his mind, emotions and will.

The SOUL of Jesus, therefor is Jesus. This is doubly established by Jesus using proper names concerning Lazarus and David. Matthew 12:40 places Hades "in the heart of the earth" and the road there is via the "bottomless pit", or, "The Abyss". It is a prison of sorts because "keys" are required to get people out of it. In every case in scripture where the direction of the soul is given in resurrection, it records that the man ROSE.

The travels of our Lord Jesus in death are well and simply documented. He, having power over His death, gave "UP" the ghost" at 3 p.m. According to James 2:26 this rendered Him dead. His body was placed in a tomb on the surface of the earth. His spirit went to the Father. His SOUL went to Hades. By special order of the Father, His body did not start decomposition. Three days later Jesus ROSE. David, who was in Hades with Him, did not. He must wait till Jesus "COMES" (1st Cor.15:23). Jesus first met Mary and reported that He had not yet ASCENDED to the Father, but was about to do so. That night He had returned and allowed the Apostles to touch Him and declared that His substance was not spirit, but flesh and bones. His wounds were present.

1st Thessalonians 5:23 says that a "whole" man is body, soul and spirit. At resurrection the sundered man is again "whole" (1st Ki.17:22, Lk.8:55). These three parts of man are distinct and different. There is no dispute about them and they each have their function in a living man. A dead man, as David is, languishes in Hades  - that is, his SOUL.

[AdHoc]

15 hours ago, Frits said:

Thank you very much for your warning. But can you be more specific about what chaos you mean? And where exactly does the Bible contradict itself in your opinion?

Up to now you have maintained that neither Jesus nor believers face judgment. I have shown them having to stand judgment. You may post your verses that we avoid judgment, but if there is evidence that we do stand in judgment, you are obliged to show both sides of the story. Otherwise the Bible is contradictory. My posting just did that for you.

1. We pass from judgment concerning our sins as Christ has taken them upon Himself.

2. We must give account of our stewardship before the Bema (a traveling throne) after rapture. This judgment decides REWARD and LOSS - not our eternal state.

The Jew is judged by Law (Rom.2:12) but is forgiven because of Covenant (Rom.11:27)

The Nations face  the books of their works a thousand years later.

Matthew 7:21-23 shows the severity of our judgment. There are some of us who knew Jesus and were furnished with the power to do great things, but did our own thing. The grammar dos not say that the works were "iniquitous". It says that those who knew the lord and had His power (Mk.16:17), are "workers of iniquity" - indicating that they did not wait for instructions from their General.

[Alive]

Often the word judgement is confused with condemnation. We in Christ will all be judged…judgement in the sense of a determination of faithfulness to what each has been given light…then Grace. Grace, to those in Christ is the ruler. The applicable reality for us is unmerited favor and each of us will find Joy in this.