Yes, Jesus meant TODAY in his message to the thief on the cross

[Retrobyter]

7 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

You did not understand what I posted. 

And you are referring to what  other people say like they talked on behalf of God.  

We are discussing scripture and what Jesus Christ said and words you have said that are contrary to the plain words Jesus said. 

Say something that Jesus said and he said again. Then we can discuss it. 

The people Jesus loved the most were the Greeks.

Who wanted to give Jesus a new country which would loved him and honor him. And it happened. And they died for him whole families all together. 

From all the people of the world Jesus choose them and sent his best disciples to them. He knew that they will welcome the good news of the Gospel. Because their religious beliefs at that time had prepared them and open the door to believe in the Good news. But still you do not understand what I am trying to say because you have said the wrong things about what they believed. 

Because of that Jesus sent his disciples to them. Because they were prime for the good news and they were very happy to hear. 

Shalom, @Your closest friendnt.

That makes ZERO sense. If He lovesd the Greeks so much, then why didn't He pick His twelve disciples from them? He lived in "the Galilee of the Gentiles."

[Retrobyter]

On 4/19/2025 at 1:15 AM, Frits said:

Hello and greetings @Retrobyter,

The resurrection that the Lord Jesus Christ speaks of always begins with hearing and accepting His words. That is why it says:

'Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.'

 So not only 'is coming', but also 'and now is'.

He said 'is coming', because that concerns the dead people who are held in Hades, and to whom the Lord Jesus Christ will preach in the Power of the Holy Spirit (Luke 23:46) after His death. Dying provides Him with the opportunity to also find this group in Hades and to save them too, hallelujah!

But it is very clear that the Lord Jesus also said 'and now is'. 'and now is', happens at that one moment (now) when a person hears the Lord Jesus Christ and believes that He is the true God, loves Him and worships Him. At that moment the believer is born again and comes from darkness into the light. Through the new birth the sinner rises from the dead, and can live by God's grace. That is why Paul wrote:

Eph 5:14 KJV 

Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and rise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

Shalom, @Frits, and Happy Resurrection Memorial Day!

In the Greek New Testament, when one sees the word "hadees," it means the "unseen." Why would Yeeshuwa` be talking about the Greek underworld, as though they believed that Greek mythology? No, He was talking about the FUTURE!

[Frits]

22 hours ago, Locust said:

yet hades   is really just the grave , the place we put the dead. I have seen different ones try to say Jesus did something when he was dead. dead means dead ,he could not do anything until his God made him live again.

The Lord Jesus Christ has shown that the writer of Ecclesiastes did not know what he was talking about when he spoke about the dead!

This becomes clear when we compare Scripture with Scripture.

Ecclesiastes writes in 12:7:

"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it."

The first part of verse 7 is correct, because the body, the mortal remains of the deceased people decomposes, it is dust that returns to the earth. But about the second part of verse 7, "and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it", the Lord Jesus Christ has explained that better.

When the loveless person dies, then his spirit lifts its eyes to basanos, a place of torment! (Luke 16:23)

Whereas the spirit of the person who believes in the true God, is carried in the bosom of Abraham after his death. (Luke 16:22) 

"Lazarus" means: God has helped.

The truth that the Lord Jesus Christ Himself revealed about the condition after death, is not the same for every person!

We can state with certainty that after death there is spiritual consciousness in both good people and bad people; they can remember the situation when they were still on earth, they can feel, they can see, they can hear, and the good people drink of the water of life.

Explaining Scripture with Scripture:

Ecclesiastes wrote, "but the dead know not any thing". (Ecclesiastes 9:5)

While Abraham said to the rich man: "But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented." 

(Luke 16:25)

Edited April 20 by Frits

[Your closest friendnt]

4 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, @Frits, and Happy Resurrection Memorial Day!

In the Greek New Testament, when one sees the word "hadees," it means the "unseen." Why would Yeeshuwa` be talking about the Greek underworld, as though they believed that Greek mythology? No, He was talking about the FUTURE!

Jesus is risen from the dead. 

[Your closest friendnt]

7 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, @Your closest friendnt.

That makes ZERO sense. If He lovesd the Greeks so much, then why didn't He pick His twelve disciples from them? He lived in "the Galilee of the Gentiles."

At the least you did not deny that secretly he Loved the Greeks. You know that because when the Greeks came looking for him, Jesus got so excited that He shouted that my hour has come to die so I can welcome them and send my disciples to them and have Greek disciples for my Gospel to take over from my disciples after their death. That was my command to them to go and make disciples out of them. To continue the preaching of the Gospel to the rest of the world. 

The Jews by tradition they close in themselves and their culture also as believers in Jesus Christ. I am not criticizing but that what they do. THE TIME CAME THAT ALL THE DISCIPLES OF JESUS CHRIST WERE ONLY GREEKS. THE BISHOPS WERE GREEKS AND EGYPTIANS AND MACEDONIAS AND AITHIOPIANS AND ANATOLIANS AND CYPRIOTS ARMENIANS AND SOUTH CAUCASUS AND ATHENIANS AND CORINTHIANS THESSALONIANS. 

[Retrobyter]

On 3/9/2025 at 10:43 PM, Marston said:

Most people argue about where that comma in the verse is supposed to be. Let's forget about the comma. 

If it was Jesus's intention to communicate that the thief would be in his kingdom eventually in the future, he likely would have said "You will be with me in paradise", which of course, doesn't designate when.

However, Jesus used "TODAY" because that is exactly what he meant. Jesus told him "You'll be with me in paradise TODAY"!

Shalom, @Marston.

I can understand this point of view. Now, understand the other side:

First, when one understands that a person who dies no longer knows anything at all, the next thing a God-justified person will know is the resurrection. He or she will come back to life as though no time had passed at all. For him or her, it is still "today." The only thing he or she will know is that now he or she has a new, glorified body, incapable of death or decay, with no more pain and no more weakness! The scars will be gone, and he or she will have a WONDERFUL future! The thief's legs that were broken will be "instantaneously" healed!

"Paradise," which is a transliteration of the Greek word "paradeisos," is in turn a transliteration of the Aramaic/Hebrew word "pardeec" (pronounced "par-DACE") meaning a "park of trees!" The "Garden Tomb" was indeed in a "park of trees," and other such burial sites are also surrounded by trees and comfort for the visitors to that cemetery. The New Jerusalem will not descend until AFTER haSatan has been locked away for a thousand years (Revelation 21 and 22 follow Revelation 20:7-15, which in turn follow Revelation 20:1-3, and it is the New Jerusalem that is THE "park of trees" or at least, contains it. We know this because the "angel of the church of Ephesus" was told,

Revelation 2:7 (KJV)

7 "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of THE TREE OF LIFE, which is IN THE MIDST OF THE PARADISE OF GOD."

And, we later find out that the tree of life is in the New Jerusalem:

Revelation 22:2 (KJV)

2 In the midst of the street of it (the New Jerusalem), and on either side of the river, was there THE TREE OF LIFE, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

So, the species called "the tree of life" will be in the median of the street of gold within the New Jerusalem, which either "IS" or "CONTAINS" the Paradise of God.

A person who believes in the continuity of life, must accept the idea that one goes to heaven after he or she dies; a person who believes in the DIScontinuity of life, knows that there is a GAP in a person's knowledge between his or her death and his or her resurrection.

[Retrobyter]

On 4/18/2025 at 6:58 AM, Frits said:

Based on the teaching of the Lord Jesus Christ and His apostles, I am afraid I cannot agree with your statement. I will give you Bible verses that clearly show that the Gospel of God was preached to the dead.

The Lord Jesus Christ said:

'Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.' (Joh 5:25 KJV )

And his apostel Paul wrote:

Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. (Efe 5:14 KJV)

Shalom, @Frits.

Sorry, but "the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God" is just as 'Eleazar ("Lazarus") heard Him in his tomb and came out of the tomb after Yeeshuwa` said, "Lazarus, come forth!"

And, Ephesians 5:14 is a FUTURE occurrence! And, "Christ shall give thee light" is talking about our "glorified" bodies, which Paul said was with the same "glory" (Greek: doxa) as that of the sun, moon, and stars (in 1 Corinthians 15:39-45).

[Your closest friendnt]

@Retrobyter

Jesus Christ was risen from the place of the dead. He had to descend to that place and at his resurrection he had to ascend to the earth and then continued his ascension to the Heavenly Father. 

Jesus said that many things happen during that time. Quite a lot of very important events took place. And then Jesus said: all things are made NEW in the underworld and continued to say and all things on the earth and all things in Heaven are NEW. 

And then He said: ALL AUTHORITY HAS BEEN GIVEN UNTO ME IN HEAVEN AND ON EARTH AND IN ALL THINGS UNDER THE EARTH. 

Edited April 20 by Your closest friendnt

[Your closest friendnt]

In Revelation 2:1-7 Jesus gave a message to the church of Ephesus through John.

The church of Ephesus was one of the seven golden lampstands as described in Revelation  chapter one.

After Jesus gave his instructions to the church of Ephesus, He told what he wants from them. And at the same time Jesus gave them the warning of what he will do to them if they did not follow his commandment and how he will reward those who will obey his commantment.

Jesus promises to give them a blessing in him that their teachers do not have and only He can give it to them. Something special from him. He is the tree of life in the Garden as in Genesis. The tree of life in the middle of the Garden of the Paradise of God. 

Jesus said that he will open the way for them to enter and eat from his tree, from the tree of Life in the Center of the Garden. 

Jesus is telling us that the tree of life it was his tree. This is why everyone had to wait for him to open the way to the tree of life. 

Jesus in this example he is giving us an insight that all believers are eligible to enter in the Garden of and eat from the tree of life but not every one will. 

As we see the promised was given to everyone in the church of Ephesus but only those who harken to the worlds of Jesus did. 

Not only this was given to the church of Ephesus but we must distinguish the church of Ephesus from all the other  churches because it was one of the seven golden lampstands as in Revelation chapter one12-15.

12. I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and among the lampstands was someone like a son of man,[d] dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. 14 The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. 15 His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. 16 In his right hand he held seven stars, and coming out of his mouth was a sharp, double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance.

 

Edited April 20 by Your closest friendnt

[Your closest friendnt]

20 hours ago, Luther said:

You said: " No one of the religions of the Jewish neighbors had these religious beliefs. Not even the Jews. Definitely not the Jews. Never the Jews. "

So are you saying that the jews didn't have these beliefs? 🤣🤣🤣

The Lord God Almighty said to Moses something that sook him up.

When he said to him in

Exodus 3:6 Then he said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob.” At this, Moses hid his face, because he was afraid to look at God. God told him that he is also his God. 

To Abraham in Genesis 15:15

15 You, however, will go to your ancestors in peace and be buried at a good old age.

Mathew 22:32  English Standard Version
‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not God of the dead, but of the living.”

Berean Standard Bible
‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead, but of the living.”

The Jews were arguing with Jesus that their Father was Abraham which was truth within the Covenant of Sinai and that they cannot perish. Because Jesus told them that they will perish if they do not believe in him.  

Jesus was referring in the New Covenant when the disciples will preached the Gospel to them after his death on the Cross, forgiveness in his name. 

Before the Cross the Jews were right because their inheritance after death was to be gathered to their Patriarch Abraham their Father the Father of Cirumcision. With Moses the Cirumcision was. Codify in the Law of the covenant of Sinai. 

Their inheritance was the inheritance God bestowed to Abraham and his chosen seed to Issac and Jacob and all the children of the Sons of Jacob the Israelites the Nation of God in the Old Covenant. 

God set them apart from the rest of the world while they lived and also set them apart from the rest of the dead of the world. And they were gathered at death to the Bossom of Abraham or to the Paradise of Abraham. At death they descend to Abraham in Sheol in the earth waiting for Jesus the Christ of God the Savior to take them under his wing in his name to give them of his life and make them heirs of his Heavenly Inheritance. 

Now as citizens of Heaven together with Jesus they ascended to their Heavenly Inheritance because Jesus opened the way to Heaven. 

In other words God had promised them the Heavenly Inheritance but they had to wait till Jesus Christ open the way to the Heavenly Inheritance to Heaven