WHO IS CHRIST?

[Your closest friendnt]

4 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

"Unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground to die, it abides alone; but if it dies it brings forth many grains." (John 12:24) Christ's intention in coming was to multiply Himself.  To do this He first had to take care of the sin problem in us, through His death on the cross, and secondly, in resurrection He put Himself (life-giving Spirit) into the members of His body (those who believe).  This was to give us His life and transform us fully into the image of the Firstborn Son, Who is in the image of God.

Does the thought that Christ came to restore us in the Father's family and multiply Himself in us sound strange to you?

I am gladly reading your post and I want to thank you for your effort to explain but at the same time I don't want to leave you believing that I have in fulness understand what you posted by remaining quite or give you a reputation and you do deserve one but there is something in the post that some how I see it in some other way and I would like to bring it to your attention and discuss it to satisfy Ephesians 4:13 that says to work towards a mutual understanding. 

[Vine Abider]

8 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Greetings to you. But I am not sure what your translation reads and I want to know. 

Can you please post it.

I responded to @Frits post above - here is Ephesians 4:12-13 from NIV:  "so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ."

[Vine Abider]

1 minute ago, Your closest friendnt said:

I am gladly reading your post and I want to thank you for your effort to explain but at the same time I don't want to leave you believing that I have in fulness understand what you posted by remaining quite or give you a reputation and you do deserve one but there is something in the post that some how I see it in some other way and I would like to bring it to your attention and discuss it to satisfy Ephesians 4:13 that says to work towards a mutual understanding. 

Not sure what it is specifically you might not be understanding . . .

[Your closest friendnt]

1 minute ago, Vine Abider said:

Not sure what it is specifically you might not be understanding . . .

I am preparing my self for it. And I will. But please remember that I am not out to cause an argument. Just expedite. 

[Your closest friendnt]

40 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

"Unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground to die, it abides alone; but if it dies it brings forth many grains." (John 12:24) Christ's intention in coming was to multiply Himself.  To do this He first had to take care of the sin problem in us, through His death on the cross, and secondly, in resurrection He put Himself (life-giving Spirit) into the members of His body (those who believe).  This was to give us His life and transform us fully into the image of the Firstborn Son, Who is in the image of God.

Does the thought that Christ came to restore us in the Father's family and multiply Himself in us sound strange to you?

Before going any further Jesus as the seed of the woman it cannot be portrait as a kernel or similar to a kernel of wheat. 

I find what Jesus said at that time quite interesting. 

He made a point that he will die and that he will die as a single man. He foretold something about himself that he will not have any children or wife. 

Jesus was telling them that he will die and if he does not die God will not have more children of his kind.

Between the lines Jesus was telling them that they are not the Heavenly Father's children. 

That the Heavenly Father is only his Father and not their Father. 

Also this illustration is not complete and it varies of what really happened with the death of Jesus Christ on the Cross. Do you find it complete. 

Edited April 10 by Your closest friendnt

[Vine Abider]

6 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

I find what Jesus said at that time quite interesting. 

He made a point that he will die and that he will die as a single man. He foretold something about himself that he will not have any children or wife. 

Jesus was telling them that he will die and if he does not die God will not have more children of his kind.

Between the lines Jesus was telling them that they are not the Heavenly Father's children. 

That the Heavenly Father is only his Father and not their Father. 

Also this illustration is not complete of what really happened. Do you find it complete. 

Yes, the multiplication of the Firstborn Son was not via physical means, such as a marriage to a human woman would facilitate.  The multiplication He was after was of the Spirit. "That which is born of Spirit is spirit."  John 3:6  This is what happens when we are born-again.

[Your closest friendnt]

23 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Yes, the multiplication of the Firstborn Son was not via physical means, such as a marriage to a human woman would facilitate.  The multiplication He was after was of the Spirit. "That which is born of Spirit is spirit."  John 3:6  This is what happens when we are born-again.

We can say with confidence what we the scriptures say that the Heavenly Father did not have any children in the inheritance of Jesus Christ till after the death of Jesus Christ on the Cross. Considering that the Heavenly Father was waiting for Jesus Christ to die to have any children. 

He was like Abraham he had the knowledge that he will have many children and he had to wait for Jesus Christ to be born and eventually die on the Cross in obedience to him and still in His life. 

What do you think. 

[Retrobyter]

5 hours ago, Frits said:

The Lord Jesus is Christ. 

He is the personification of Christ. We all know that Christ means Anointed, translated from Hebrew Messiah.

What applies to Christ also applies to the Lord Jesus, He is one Divine Person.

The Lord Jesus Christ was born of the Holy Spirit, His Spirit is Holy.

His Body is also Holy, even so Holy that it could serve God as a spotless Sacrifice for the sins of the world.

And finally, His Name is also Holy: Jesus Christ, the true Holy God.

Christ is God Himself, that is what you and I read in our Bible:

 

Luke 2:11 KJV 

For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

 

Also read these Bible texts:

Mat 16:16, Luk.2:11, Joh. 6:69, John 11:27, Ac. 2:36, 1 Cor. 1:2, Col. 3:24

Shalom, @Frits

NOW, you're asking the right questions! To say that Yeeshuwa` ("Jesus") is the Christ ("the Messiah" or "the Anointed One") doesn't mean that He is God. It means that He is the One SELECTED BY God to be Israel's next king:

1 Samuel 16:1-13 (KJV)

1 And the LORD (Hebrew: יְהוָה) said unto Samuel,

"How long wilt thou mourn for Saul, seeing I have rejected him from reigning over Israel? FILL THINE HORN WITH OIL, and go, I will send thee to Jesse the Bethlehemite: for I HAVE PROVIDED ME A KING AMONG HIS SONS."

2 And Samuel said,

"How can I go? if Saul hear [it], he will kill me."

And the LORD said,

"Take an heifer with thee, and say,

"'I am come to sacrifice to the LORD.'

3 "And call Jesse to the sacrifice, and I will shew thee what thou shalt do: and THOU SHALT ANOINT UNTO ME [HIM] WHOM I NAME UNTO THEE."

4 And Samuel did that which the LORD spake, and came to Bethlehem. And the elders of the town trembled at his coming, and said,

"Comest thou peaceably?"

5 And he said,

"Peaceably: I am come to sacrifice unto the LORD: sanctify yourselves, and come with me to the sacrifice."

And he sanctified Jesse and his sons, and called them to the sacrifice. 6 And it came to pass, when they were come, that he looked on Eliab, and said,

"Surely the LORD'S anointed [is] before him."

7 But the LORD said unto Samuel,

"Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for [the LORD seeth] not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart."

8 Then Jesse called Abinadab, and made him pass before Samuel. And he said,

"Neither hath the LORD chosen this."

9 Then Jesse made Shammah to pass by. And he said,

"Neither hath the LORD chosen this."

10 Again, Jesse made seven of his sons to pass before Samuel. And Samuel said unto Jesse,

"The LORD hath not chosen these."

11 And Samuel said unto Jesse,

"Are here all [thy] children?"

And he said,

"There remaineth yet the youngest, and, behold, he keepeth the sheep."

And Samuel said unto Jesse,

"Send and fetch him: for we will not sit down till he come hither."

12 And he sent, and brought him in. Now he [was] ruddy, [and] withal of a beautiful countenance, and goodly to look to. And the LORD said,

"ARISE, ANOINT HIM: FOR THIS [IS] HE."

13 Then SAMUEL TOOK THE HORN OF OIL, AND ANOINTED HIM in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the LORD came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah.

The LORD (Hebrew: יְהוָה) God had chosen David to be king of Israel, but it took several years to accomplish this. In the meantime, David was on the run at one point, running from Saul who meant to kill him, rather than give up his kingdom to David. But, David would NOT seek Saul's life in return. Instead, we read this (on more than one occasion):

1 Samuel 24:1-22 (KJV)

1 And it came to pass, when Saul was returned from following the Philistines, that it was told him, saying,

"Behold, David [is] in the wilderness of Engedi."

2 Then Saul took three thousand chosen men out of all Israel, and went to seek David and his men upon the rocks of the wild goats. 3 And he came to the sheepcotes by the way, where [was] a cave; and Saul went in to cover his feet (to relieve himself): and David and his men remained in the sides of the cave. 4 And the men of David said (whispered) unto him,

"Behold the day of which the LORD said unto thee, 'Behold, I will deliver thine enemy into thine hand, that thou mayest do to him as it shall seem good unto thee!'"

Then David arose, and cut off the skirt ("a feathery wing," a tsit-tsit?) of Saul's robe (talit?) privily (tacitly; secretly). 5 And it came to pass afterward, that David's heart smote him, because he had cut off Saul's skirt. 6 And he said unto his men,

"The LORD forbid that I should do this thing unto my master, the LORD'S anointed, to stretch forth mine hand against him, seeing he [is] the anointed (Hebrew: מָשִׁיחַ = "maashiyach" = Greek: χριστὸς = "christos" = "Messiah" or "Christ") of the LORD."

7 So David stayed (held back) his servants with these words, and suffered them not (did not allow them) to rise against Saul. But Saul rose up out of the cave, and went on [his] way. 8 David also arose afterward, and went out of the cave, and cried after Saul, saying,

"My lord the king!"

 And when Saul looked behind him, David stooped with his face to the earth, and bowed himself. 9 And David said to Saul,

"Wherefore hearest thou men's words, saying, 'Behold, David seeketh thy hurt'? 10 Behold, this day thine eyes have seen how that the LORD had delivered thee to day into mine hand in the cave: and [some] bade [me] kill thee: but [mine eye] spared thee; and I said, 'I will not put forth mine hand against my lord; for HE [IS] THE LORD'S ANOINTED.' 11 Moreover, my father, see, yea, see the skirt of thy robe in my hand: for in that I cut off the skirt of thy robe, and killed thee not, know thou and see that [there is] neither evil nor transgression in mine hand, and I have not sinned against thee; yet thou huntest my soul to take it! 12 The LORD judge between me and thee, and the LORD avenge me of thee: but mine hand shall not be upon thee. 13 As saith the proverb of the ancients, 'Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked': but mine hand shall not be upon thee. 14 After whom is the king of Israel come out? after whom dost thou pursue? after a dead dog, after a flea! 15 The LORD therefore be judge, and judge between me and thee, and see, and plead my cause, and deliver me out of thine hand."

16 And it came to pass, when David had made an end of speaking these words unto Saul, that Saul said,

"[Is] this thy voice, my son David?"

And Saul lifted up his voice, and wept. 17 And he said to David,

"Thou [art] more righteous than I: for thou hast rewarded me good, whereas I have rewarded thee evil. 18 And thou hast shewed this day how that thou hast dealt well with me: forasmuch as when the LORD had delivered me into thine hand, thou killedst me not. 19 For if a man find his enemy, will he let him go well away? wherefore the LORD reward thee good for that thou hast done unto me this day. 20 And now, behold, I KNOW WELL THAT THOU SHALT SURELY BE KING, AND THAT THE KINGDOM OF ISRAEL SHALL BE ESTABLISHED IN THINE HAND. 21 Swear now therefore unto me by the LORD, that thou wilt not cut off my seed after me, and that thou wilt not destroy my name out of my father's house."

22 And David sware unto Saul. And Saul went home; but David and his men gat them up unto the hold.

So, each of these men were a "mashiyach," an "anointed one" of YHWH God! And, such was also Shlomoh (or Solomon):

1 Kings 1:28-40 (KJV)

28 Then king David answered and said,

"Call me Bathsheba."

And she came into the king's presence, and stood before the king. 29 And the king sware, and said,

"[As] the LORD liveth, that hath redeemed my soul out of all distress, 30 Even as I sware unto thee by the LORD God of Israel, saying,

"'Assuredly Solomon thy son shall reign after me, and he shall sit upon my throne in my stead';

even so will I certainly do this day."

31 Then Bathsheba bowed with [her] face to the earth, and did reverence to the king, and said,

"Let my lord king David live for ever."

32 And king David said,

"Call me Zadok the priest, and Nathan the prophet, and Benaiah the son of Jehoiada."

And they came before the king. 33 The king also said unto them,

"Take with you the servants of your lord, and cause Solomon my son to ride upon mine own mule, and bring him down to Gihon: 34 And LET ZADOK THE PRIEST AND NATHAN THE PROPHET ANOINT HIM THERE KING OVER ISRAEL: and blow ye with the trumpet, and say, 'God save king Solomon!' 35 Then ye shall come up after him, that he may come and sit upon my throne; for he shall be king in my stead: and I have appointed him to be ruler over Israel and over Judah."

36 And Benaiah the son of Jehoiada answered the king, and said,

"Amen: the LORD God of my lord the king say so [too]. 37 As the LORD hath been with my lord the king, even so be he with Solomon, and make his throne greater than the throne of my lord king David."

38 So Zadok the priest, and Nathan the prophet, and Benaiah the son of Jehoiada, and the Cherethites, and the Pelethites, went down, and caused Solomon to ride upon king David's mule, and brought him to Gihon. 39 And ZADOK THE PRIEST TOOK AN HORN OF OIL OUT OF THE TABERNACLE, AND ANOINTED SOLOMON. And they blew the trumpet; and all the people said,

"God save king Solomon!"

40 And all the people came up after him, and the people piped with pipes, and rejoiced with great joy, so that the earth rent with the sound of them.

This is also how we know that Shlomoh ("Solomon") was NOT the "seed" which God was talking about in the Davidic Covenant! David was still alive at the time, not yet "sleeping with his fathers!" (2 Samuel 7:12).

[Retrobyter]

3 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

I am not going to say anything against it.

Is it possible to describe the first born. 

And please it will very helpful to post the scripture together with the reference to it. It is important to know what you are reading in the reference scripture because they are many different translations. 

Shalom, @Your closest friendnt.

The Firstborn is USUALLY the first son born to a husband and wife. He is the PRIMARY HEIR of the family's wealth. Unless the one born first is disqualified, he is usually the man's heir. Most vertical lineages are from heir to heir. Yeeshuwa` ("Jesus") was (and still is) David's Heir to the throne of Israel. He is also GOD'S Heir - the Son of God - to the WORLD! He will defeat all of His foes, and conquer all of His enemies, until He rules the WHOLE WORLD as the "King of kings," a title for a WORLD EMPEROR! When He has accomplished that, then He will judge the whole world, and deliver the Empire over to His Father (1 Corinthians 15:28), but "he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end" (Luke 1:33).

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, @Your closest friendnt.

The Firstborn is USUALLY the first son born to a husband and wife. He is the PRIMARY HEIR of the family's wealth. Unless the one born first is disqualified, he is usually the man's heir. Most vertical lineages are from heir to heir. Yeeshuwa` ("Jesus") was (and still is) David's Heir to the throne of Israel. He is also GOD'S Heir - the Son of God - to the WORLD! He will defeat all of His foes, and conquer all of His enemies, until He rules the WHOLE WORLD as the "King of kings," a title for a WORLD EMPEROR! When He has accomplished that, then He will judge the whole world, and deliver the Empire over to His Father (1 Corinthians 15:28), but "he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end" (Luke 1:33).

I appreciate your taking the time to respond. 

From what I know the Heavenly Father said that Jesus is his only Son. 

That makes him the First and the Last. And there is no competition. All Jesus is the only heir. And the Heavenly Father will give him the Kingdom when Jesus completes his Mission. The Kingdom was to be given to the one who will bring children to the Heavenly Father from all tribes and creeds and clans of the world. This is what Jesus accomplished with his death on the Cross.  

Today there people from every tribe and creed and clan in the world that say Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior and MY KING.  And Jesus say YES I AM. And ALL THE HEAVENLY HOST say yes JESUS CHRIST INDEED IS. 

That's how I see it. 

Edited April 11 by Your closest friendnt