Did God create Adam & Eve being that there were already people on Earth?

[FreeGrace]

3 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Yes it was a typo, but we all know the universe was created 13.7 billion years ago OR that Science claims it was created 13.7 billion years, so if one agrees or disagrees, it was an obvious typo because the universe has to be older than the earth. 

Could you expand on the last statement as to why the universe has to be older than the earth?  Seems to me that God could easily speak the whole ball of wax into existence at the same time.  What is the reason for the universe to precede the earth?

Thanks.

[Revelation Man]

18 hours ago, teddyv said:

Yeah, don't disagree; scientists typically use very specific and precise language in order to be very clear about their subjects, especially within their academic circles. I could bury you in very geological specific terms, much as a physicist could bury me.

Maybe so, but from a Faith meeting Science perspective, my blog on this 10 or so years back, sketched out a Creation POV that was more plausible than Young Earthers and Atheist's be they whomever, Scientists or just coat-riders.  My blog from years ago seeking to stop our youth from thinking Christianity is just people who believe in fairy tales. People who say the earth is only 6000 years old drive away intellectuals & youth because they say, if they can not see the evidence of the age of the earth (universe) then what else are they falling for? ( I am now a 40m plus year Christian).

Is the Earth 6000 years old or is it 4.5 Billion years old?

I as a 30 year Christian try to think outside the box of normality. Is the universe 6000 years old? Is the universe 13.7 billion years old? Do these two questions clash or is there a translation barrier !! This is how I think. I try to bring both poles of thought towards each other starting with the facts. We know the universe has to be over 6000 years old because we see light from stars that are millions of light years away, so we would have to be naive to think the universe is only 6000 years old.

Onward to what Genesis says about creation, does it really say the universe or earth is 6000 years old? I don’t think it does, I think its a mistranslation of a primitive language that had only around 4000 words at the time Genesis was written, whereas the English language today has more than 500,000 words. So many of the Hebrew words were used in multiple ways. For instance the original meaning of the Hebrew word YOWM (Day) means “to be hot” and there are at least 50 other meanings listed in Strong’s concordance’s lexicon of Hebrew words. A year, a month, a period of time, chronicles, evening and morning (Beginning and end), age, perpetually, long, some time, whole, X required season, continually etc. etc., well you get the point.

YOWM or “To be hot”, what would this mean and why was it used since God is said to have given Moses the first five books of the Torah. Well when the universe was spoken into existence by God, it took 400 million years for the first stars to form. So the first Day (to be hot) was the Evening (Darkness, 400 million years of darkness) and the Morning ( The stars started forming) and the first day was a “period of time” and in my opinion it lasted from 13.7 Billion BC until 4.5 Billion BC (9.2 Billion years) when the Sun & Earth were formed. So lets take a second and look at the Bible and the WMAP research and see if this matches.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Now look below at the Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe (WMAP) which launched in 2001 and won many awards, they mapped the whole universe out. Below as we see, you had Quantum Fluctuations which I contend is God, then you had inflation, followed by afterglow, followed by 400 MILLION YEARS of Darkness !! Just like the bible says in verse 2, and there was Darkness on the Face of the Deep !! Gods word is perfect, it is us who are confused. DARK AGES Mapped out by the WMAP, followed by what? The first stars forming at the 400 million year mark. Verse three says what? and God said “Let there be light” God is right again. We are looking at Creation from Gods POV, no man was there of course and with God he is not subject to time, he created time for us via this universe, but He is eternal and thus was never created. Remember the verse, a thousand years is like a day and a day like unto a thousand years unto God. In other words God lives in the past, present and future all at the same time.

 

So we had the Big Bang, followed by Inflation, followed by Cosmic Microwave background where after 375,000 years loose electrons cool enough to combine with protons. The Universe becomes Transparent to Light. The Microwave background begins to shine. Then the dark ages/clouds of dark hydrogen gas cool and coalesce.

The first stars appear….Gas Clouds collapse, the fusion of Stars begin, the first of which appears at about 400 million years after the big bang. So, when the bible says Darkness was on the face of the deep, God knew exactly what was happening in the very beginning !! The more we look for the answers, the more that science and the bible will converge, if both sides with differing viewpoints would only take their blinders off.

The second day (period of time) of course would be from the Earth & the Suns formation until the grasses and trees came forth on the Third day (period of time) then on the Fourth day it seems God Set the Seasons or placed the Moon in its perfect orbit where our seasons are not strange, but orderly, I know the moon and earth is supposed to have collided. Anyway, that set the seasons, times, years etc. etc. Mind you, all of these ideas are rudimentary observations. A theory of how the things God says in His Holy Word and Science can both be factual. They are not meant to imply everything went down just so and in like manner, the dates of course are guesstimates, I wasn’t there.

On the Fifth day God created the Sea animals/birds and what not, were the Dinos created here or with the land animals? The fifth day lasted 300 million to 400 million years or so. On the Sixth Day around 300–350 Million BC God created the Land Animals. During this period of time the Dinosaurs became extinct about 70 Million years ago. Then during this “TIME PERIOD” (6TH DAY) God decided to create man 6000 or so years ago. Some might protest that men have been around much longer, but I offer this up, where is the data? Men are record keepers and we don’t have proof of men going back further. Now as per “MEN” being observed by scientists to have been around X Number of years, I never said Animal like men weren’t around, I stated Human Beings were created 6000 years ago, when God placed His spirit in us and thus we are now immortal in that our souls can not die. We were at that point in time “Created in Gods Image”. The other fossils and bones mean nothing, because Scientists have no way of testing for God imparting His spirit into mankind and creating “Human Beings” with powerful intellects.

On the Seventh Day God rested, which only means He ceased Creating the Heavens/Earth/Mankind/Animals. So when we see stars and galaxies created today, it was ordered forth 13.7 Billion years ago. So its not necessarily either or. We need to start looking at things with an open mind, be we an atheist or a Christian.

P.S. Just something to think about. Einstein’s theory of relativity is in the very first verse of the bible, relatively speaking…LOL.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning (TIME) God created the heaven(SPACE) and the earth(MATTER).

------------------------------

I do deep dives on prophesy, I can explain the book of Revelation in one post, not in an over thought out book, I explain every player in Daniel 11 and what every verse means. The Gen. 1 creation story is not like those books where codes/riddles can solve each problem, with prayer, fasting and a stick-to-it attitude. The secrets of Creation is God's alone, but we can cobble together an Occam's Razor theory using simple math and information we have in these end times other never had.

 

LIKE, 150 years ago they thought our universe was Eternal, the Christian stated that it surely had a beginning, and thus one would think the Big Bang would be a welcome Factoid, bit instead Christians see it as Evolution, instead of Creation by God, which it is, God spoke creation, and He gave everything a Mathematical equation.

Edited May 15 by Revelation Man

[Revelation Man]

8 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Could you expand on the last statement as to why the universe has to be older than the earth?  Seems to me that God could easily speak the whole ball of wax into existence at the same time.  What is the reason for the universe to precede the earth?

Thanks.

Evidence shows that is How God Created the Universe. The Whole Universe came from something about the size of a Grain of Sand. If it had been a different size, either way, the universe would have either have been. 1.) a way to rocky/material universe, uninhabitable, or 2.) It would have expanded too fast and collapsed on itself.

Richard Deem used to say the Size of the Universe was just right. This is the size the universe had to be in order to exist. God used Calculations to create everything that is  here. 

[FreeGrace]

3 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Evidence shows that is How God Created the Universe.

What we have is the product of what God created.  That, in itself, doesn't indicate anything about the "how".

3 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

The Whole Universe came from something about the size of a Grain of Sand. If it had been a different size, either way, the universe would have either have been. 1.) a way to rocky/material universe, uninhabitable, or 2.) It would have expanded too fast and collapsed on itself.

The Bible says that God spoke creation into existence.  That eliminates the "grain of sand" theory.  We find "and God said..." throughout Genesis 1.  Further, Psa 33:6 and 9 says that God spoke things into existence.

3 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Richard Deem used to say the Size of the Universe was just right. This is the size the universe had to be in order to exist. God used Calculations to create everything that is  here. 

No, God doesn't need "calculations" in order to create.  He simply speaks and things exist.

For example, Gen 1:3 - "And God said, "Let there be light."  And there was light."

In the Hebrew, the text says, "And God said, "Light BE!!"  And light was."

Showing God's power to create ex nihilo, or out of nothing.

The only way something comes from nothing is when God creates.  

[lrs68]

I personally believe that when God spoke the Universe into existence He created it as vast as it currently is.   Already millions and millions of light years apart in distance.  I believe it is taking Science so long to attempt to explore [through telescope\satellite] the Universe and it is impossible for them to catch up and see everything that they merely believe it is in a continual expansion.

 

When we look at the effort being made we're about on average every 3 to 5 years creating a better device to capture (the beyond) areas the last and latest equipment was capable of accomplishing.   The bottom line fact is even if God waited for another 50,000 years before Returning Science would still be nowhere close to the original creation.

[Revelation Man]

4 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

What we have is the product of what God created.  That, in itself, doesn't indicate anything about the "how".

8 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Of course it does, we can calculate (in the modern times) every calculation God used, its called the Laws of Nature or the Constants like the speed of light, the gravitational constant, and the Planck constant, amongst others. 

Ever hear of the Fibonacci sequence? 

Many writers begin the sequence with 0 and 1, although some authors start it from 1 and 1[1][2] and some (as did Fibonacci) from 1 and 2. Starting from 0 and 1, the sequence begins

0, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89, 144, ... 

A Pine Cone, a Sunflower all have petals in this order, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34 etc. etc. ad infinitum.  Go look at any pine cone. We see Galaxies created with the same design, human beings faces have the same design profile. God used numbers to design and create His Universe. 

This pattern can be seen throughout the universe of God's Creation. Look up this YOUTUBE VIDEO.

The Fibonacci Sequence: Nature's Code a 3:19 Video) or 

 What is the Fibonacci Sequence? ( a FOUR MINUTE VIDEO)

There are longer videos if ne so desires.

 

5 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

The Bible says that God spoke creation into existence.  That eliminates the "grain of sand" theory.  We find "and God said..." throughout Genesis 1.  Further, Psa 33:6 and 9 says that God spoke things into existence.

8 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

No, matter came from matter, God spoke it into existence, but it came from atter the size of a grain of sand, even if you can not grasp this calculation brother its still factual.

God could warm us via His presence if He so desired but He chose a sun to warm us instead for His own reasons.

5 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

No, God doesn't need "calculations" in order to create.  He simply speaks and things exist.

 

SMH, in order to have a ORDERLY UNIVERSE you had to have God calculating all the needed Constants. He designed the universe with NUMBERS. How or why do you think our DNA has a NUMBER PROFILE UNIQUE unto us? God used numbers to inform our cells how to react. Computer Programs are a bunch is 1's and zeros, or information programed.

5 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

For example, Gen 1:3 - "And God said, "Let there be light."  And there was light."

 

AFTER 400 million Years of Darkness giving the universe a period of time to bring all these things into being. It took 375,000 years after Inflation (the initial burst of Creation or the Big Bang) in order for the Loose Electrons to cool enough to be able to combine with Protons. 

 

5 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

In the Hebrew, the text says, "And God said, "Light BE!!"  And light was."

 

Something I have added into my studies since my older blog is this. Why does God say first, He moved on the FACE OF THE WATERS just before He says LET THERE BE LIGHT?

 

Because He is giving us a 100% understanding of what it took to illuminate light to the point where it would enlighten the whole world, God moving on the face of the waters meant He was explaining how our earth is illuminated with straight lines of the suns beams, God gave us a BIO-DOME or Atmosphere that entraps moisture, and thereby it can refract or reflect these sun beams to the point it illuminates our who earth at some point in time during the day (there are a few places where there is no sun for weeks etc. but we are speaking in general of course). Just outside our Atmosphere what happens? It gets much, much darker. So, God just told us why  and how He moved on the FACE OF THE WATERS. 

 

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[Revelation Man]

3 hours ago, lrs68 said:

I personally believe that when God spoke the Universe into existence He created it as vast as it currently is.   Already millions and millions of light years apart in distance.  I believe it is taking Science so long to attempt to explore [through telescope\satellite] the Universe and it is impossible for them to catch up and see everything that they merely believe it is in a continual expansion.

 

Here is the problem with that, God used Constants or Math to Create the Universe, these are KNOWN ENTITIES or the Laws of Nature. So, WHY would God need to change His Laws of Nature to create the earth? Only to speed things up? WHY? Because God Himself lives in ALL TIME at once, He is Eternal and not subject unto time, therefore it makes no sense for God to need to speed things up when as soon as He said Go forth Creation, and Let there be Light, he was living in the finished product. He lives with us in Heaven now, BEFORE we have been Resurrected and Judged. He already knows all things because He transcends TIME.

 

As per your theory? God would have to change the laws of nature to have created the Universe different, with God there would have to be a reason fir doing this, and since He lives in ALL TIME at once, there is zero need of Him changing the Laws of Nature, one of His virtues is patience. 

 

3 hours ago, lrs68 said:

When we look at the effort being made we're about on average every 3 to 5 years creating a better device to capture (the beyond) areas the last and latest equipment was capable of accomplishing.   The bottom line fact is even if God waited for another 50,000 years before Returning Science would still be nowhere close to the original creation.

We can create animals from DNA. We spent 1000s of years on horse and buggies, and with no way of uniting globally until the Computer came into being. In the last 150 years we went from  horse and buggy to Space Flight and from not understanding germs to being able to use DNA to recreate the wiped out Dinos if we wanted to. 

[FreeGrace]

16 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Of course it does, we can calculate (in the modern times) every calculation God used

To claim that God used "calculations" when the Bible says God "knows everything", meaning He is omniscient, denies His omniscience.  The reason humans have slide rules and computers is because we aren't omniscient and therefore don't know everything, and have to calculate things.  Not so with God.

16 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

its called the Laws of Nature or the Constants like the speed of light, the gravitational constant, and the Planck constant, amongst others.

I prefer Psa 33:6,9, which tells us HOW God creates.  No calculations required.

16 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Ever hear of the Fibonacci sequence? 

Many writers begin the sequence with 0 and 1, although some authors start it from 1 and 1[1][2] and some (as did Fibonacci) from 1 and 2. Starting from 0 and 1, the sequence begins

0, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89, 144, ... 

A Pine Cone, a Sunflower all have petals in this order, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34 etc. etc. ad infinitum.  Go look at any pine cone. We see Galaxies created with the same design, human beings faces have the same design profile. God used numbers to design and create His Universe.

Again, God simply spoke everything into existence, as the Bible says.

16 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

No, matter came from matter, God spoke it into existence, but it came from atter the size of a grain of sand, even if you can not grasp this calculation brother its still factual.

I greatly differ from your view.  "In the beginning"... there was no matter BEFORE God spoke the "heavens and earth" into existence.  Again, I go with what the Bible says.

16 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

SMH, in order to have a ORDERLY UNIVERSE you had to have God calculating all the needed Constants. He designed the universe with NUMBERS. How or why do you think our DNA has a NUMBER PROFILE UNIQUE unto us? God used numbers to inform our cells how to react. Computer Programs are a bunch is 1's and zeros, or information programed.

I'm getting a bit tired of hearing that God "used calculations".  That strongly implies that He is not omniscient.  But since He is, what He speaks into existence is perfect, and no need for calculations.

16 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

AFTER 400 million Years of Darkness giving the universe a period of time to bring all these things into being. It took 375,000 years after Inflation (the initial burst of Creation or the Big Bang) in order for the Loose Electrons to cool enough to be able to combine with Protons.

I have a biblical view of things.  When God spoke the entire universe into existence, there was most certainly a "big bang".  And everything was in place in that instant.

16 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Something I have added into my studies since my older blog is this. Why does God say first, He moved on the FACE OF THE WATERS just before He says LET THERE BE LIGHT?

Because Gen 1:2 has been terribly mistranslated.  In the Hebrew, "BUT, the earth BECAME an UNINHABITABLE WASTELAND..."  That's why.  The story of Genesis 1 is a story of restoration of earth.  God did not give any details of the WHY or HOW the earth needed to be restored before He created man and placed him on the planet.

16 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Because He is giving us a 100% understanding of what it took to illuminate light to the point where it would enlighten the whole world

Please explain yourself.  What, exactly, is this "100% understanding of what it took"?

16 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

God moving on the face of the waters meant He was explaining how our earth is illuminated with straight lines of the suns beams, God gave us a BIO-DOME or Atmosphere that entraps moisture, and thereby it can refract or reflect these sun beams to the point it illuminates our who earth at some point in time during the day (there are a few places where there is no sun for weeks etc. but we are speaking in general of course). Just outside our Atmosphere what happens? It gets much, much darker. So, God just told us why  and how He moved on the FACE OF THE WATERS.

Rather, science is well aware of the fact that the earth has been packed in ice.  So the end of v.2 is about the START of the restoration, where the ice had to be melted first.

16 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

(Special message from my small Kitty, LOL) ]67\yd03ll40,ly,8i 5555553ic,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,4444444444444444444443es5ib dfexxxxxeleeee

Sorry, I don't speak or read Kitty. 

[FreeGrace]

15 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Here is the problem with that, God used Constants or Math to Create the Universe, these are KNOWN ENTITIES or the Laws of Nature. So, WHY would God need to change His Laws of Nature to create the earth?

Everything comes from God.  He created math, science, etc.  

15 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

We can create animals from DNA. We spent 1000s of years on horse and buggies, and with no way of uniting globally until the Computer came into being. In the last 150 years we went from  horse and buggy to Space Flight and from not understanding germs to being able to use DNA to recreate the wiped out Dinos if we wanted to. 

What is the point of this?

[teddyv]

3 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

He created math, science, etc.

A bit of a quiblle on this. Both of these are human constructs. God created the universe. He left up the discovery and description of it to us.

Edited May 15 by teddyv