Did God create Adam & Eve being that there were already people on Earth?

[Revelation Man]

On 5/15/2025 at 12:52 PM, FreeGrace said:

To claim that God used "calculations" when the Bible says God "knows everything", meaning He is omniscient, denies His omniscience.  The reason humans have slide rules and computers is because we aren't omniscient and therefore don't know everything, and have to calculate things.  Not so with God.

Correct, God knows all things and thus used what we see as Math in order to bring forth an orderly Universe. If you or I build a table, just because we already KNOW MATH doesn't mean we can just throw a table together and have it be a perfect table, doing so one might get a wobbly table or one that is not high enough etc. 

DNA is mathematical sequences, you can not get around it brother, Just because God already knows all MATH doesn't mean He can not use it. That s a nonsensical POV my friend.

On 5/15/2025 at 12:52 PM, FreeGrace said:

I prefer Psa 33:6,9, which tells us HOW God creates.  No calculations required.

On 5/15/2025 at 12:29 PM, Revelation Man said:

You will find out one day God uses tools He invented. Its OK.

 

On 5/15/2025 at 12:52 PM, FreeGrace said:

Again, God simply spoke everything into existence, as the Bible says.

On 5/15/2025 at 12:29 PM, Revelation Man said:

God DESIGNED His Creation.

 

On 5/15/2025 at 12:52 PM, FreeGrace said:

I greatly differ from your view.  "In the beginning"... there was no matter BEFORE God spoke the "heavens and earth" into existence.  Again, I go with what the Bible says.

On 5/15/2025 at 12:29 PM, Revelation Man said:

Of course there was, matter came from matter which God created.

On 5/15/2025 at 12:52 PM, FreeGrace said:

I'm getting a bit tired of hearing that God "used calculations".  That strongly implies that He is not omniscient.  But since He is, what He speaks into existence is perfect, and no need for calculations.

On 5/15/2025 at 12:29 PM, Revelation Man said:

As I stated before, you will one day learn you were in error on this, from God Himself, or Jesus or the Holy Spirit, or ALL THREE.

On 5/15/2025 at 12:52 PM, FreeGrace said:

I have a biblical view of things.  When God spoke the entire universe into existence, there was most certainly a "big bang".  And everything was in place in that instant.

On 5/15/2025 at 12:29 PM, Revelation Man said:

So, do I as a man called to preach over 40 years ago.

 

On 5/15/2025 at 12:52 PM, FreeGrace said:

Because Gen 1:2 has been terribly mistranslated.  In the Hebrew, "BUT, the earth BECAME an UNINHABITABLE WASTELAND..."  That's why.  The story of Genesis 1 is a story of restoration of earth.  God did not give any details of the WHY or HOW the earth needed to be restored before He created man and placed him on the planet.

On 5/15/2025 at 12:29 PM, Revelation Man said:

No, young earthers just have to move around details to try and fit.

On 5/15/2025 at 12:52 PM, FreeGrace said:

Please explain yourself.  What, exactly, is this "100% understanding of what it took"?

On 5/15/2025 at 12:29 PM, Revelation Man said:

Our sun WOULD NOT LIGHT UP OUR WORLD without us having an Atmosphere that traps in "Moisture" which REFLECTS the Sun Beams into an illuminating light.

Edited May 16 by Revelation Man

[FreeGrace]

2 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Correct, God knows all things and thus used what we see as Math in order to bring forth an orderly Universe. If you or I build a table, just because we already KNOW MAT doesn't mean we can just throw a table together and have it be a perfect table, do so one might get a wobbly table or one that is not high enough. 

What is the point?  What God creates is good.  

2 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

DNA is mathematical sequences, you can not get around it brother, Just because God already knows all MATH doesn't mean He can not use it. That s a nonsensical POV my friend.

God doesn't have to use anything.  When He speaks, what He commands to exist, comes into existence.  He uses nothing.  He speaks and what He commands exists.  I've give the verses that say so.

2 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

You will find out one day God uses tools He invented. Its OK.

Oh, when will I find that out?

2 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Of course there was, matter came from matter which Gid created.

So, thanks for agreeing.  God created matter out of nothing.

2 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

As I stated before you will learn you were in error one day, from God Himself, or Jesus or the Holy Spirit, or ALL THREE.

Thanks for your opinion.

2 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Our sun WOULD NOT LIGHT UP OUR WORLD without us having an Atmosphere that traps in "Moisture" which REFLECTS the Sun Beams into an illuminating light.

God already knew when He spoke the heavens and earth into existence what was needed.  When God speaks, everything automatically appears in perfect balance.

[lrs68]

10 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Here is the problem with that, God used Constants or Math to Create the Universe, these are KNOWN ENTITIES or the Laws of Nature. So, WHY would God need to change His Laws of Nature to create the earth? Only to speed things up? WHY? Because God Himself lives in ALL TIME at once, He is Eternal and not subject unto time, therefore it makes no sense for God to need to speed things up when as soon as He said Go forth Creation, and Let there be Light, he was living in the finished product. He lives with us in Heaven now, BEFORE we have been Resurrected and Judged. He already knows all things because He transcends TIME.

 

As per your theory? God would have to change the laws of nature to have created the Universe different, with God there would have to be a reason fir doing this, and since He lives in ALL TIME at once, there is zero need of Him changing the Laws of Nature, one of His virtues is patience. 

 

We can create animals from DNA. We spent 1000s of years on horse and buggies, and with no way of uniting globally until the Computer came into being. In the last 150 years we went from  horse and buggy to Space Flight and from not understanding germs to being able to use DNA to recreate the wiped out Dinos if we wanted to. 

Only you see that God would be required to change things.  I am of the position He made it and it hasn't changed.

[Revelation Man]

19 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

What is the point?  What God creates is good.  

21 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

The POINT is clear, this is an Old Universe, not a Young Universe, and all the Constants or Laws of Nature that can be "Measured" show us this has to be true.

 

19 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

God doesn't have to use anything.  When He speaks, what He commands to exist, comes into existence.  He uses nothing.  He speaks and what He commands exists.  I've give the verses that say so.

21 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Well, all we can do is go by the evidence of how God created the universe and us.

19 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Oh, when will I find that out?

21 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

As soon as you are Raptured from the Grave or Transferred from a LIVE BODY into a Spirit Man on your way to heaven every falsehood that comes from Satan who never stops working will GO AWAY (We see DARKLY NOW Paul said, Remember? That is what it means)

19 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

So, thanks for agreeing.  God created matter out of nothing.

21 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

But the one grain of sand was created first, then the Big Bang.

19 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

God already knew when He spoke the heavens and earth into existence what was needed.  When God speaks, everything automatically appears in perfect balance.

He gave us an Orderly Universe by using Math. 

[Revelation Man]

14 hours ago, lrs68 said:

Only you see that God would be required to change things.  I am of the position He made it and it hasn't changed.

YES and the proof is He created the Universe 13.7 billion years ago. And he did not change anything, that is why we have the Speed of Light as a CONSTANT, if the earth is a young earth then the Speed of Light had to have been CHANGED to its current status, so, it is not a matter of what anyone "thinks" its just a fact based statement, the Laws of Nature like Speed of Light CAN NOT BE WHAT THEY NOW ARE, and this universe and earth be a young earth, the twain will not work. PERIOD.

[FreeGrace]

54 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

The POINT is clear, this is an Old Universe, not a Young Universe, and all the Constants or Laws of Nature that can be "Measured" show us this has to be true.

I agree.  Gen 1:2 makes clear that the earth is way older than Adam, not just 6 days.

54 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Well, all we can do is go by the evidence of how God created the universe and us.

The evidence is found in Scripture.  Psa 33:6 and 9 tells us He spoke it into existence, as Genesis 1 testifies.

54 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

As soon as you are Raptured from the Grave or Transferred from a LIVE BODY into a Spirit Man on your way to heaven every falsehood that comes from Satan who never stops working will GO AWAY (We see DARKLY NOW Paul said, Remember? That is what it means)

Slight correction here:  no one will be resurrected "on their way to heaven".  The singular resurrection of ALL believers will be at the Second Advent, when Jesus brings with Him all the saints who have already died and are in heaven.

54 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

But the one grain of sand was created first, then the Big Bang.

Where do you get that?

54 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

He gave us an Orderly Universe by using Math. 

No, He used His mouth and commanded everything to exist.

Psa 33:6 - By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, and all the stars by the breath of His mouth.

Psa 33:9 - For He spoke, and it came to be; He commanded, and it stood firm.

That is the evidence of where everything comes from.

[Cyoder]

On 4/12/2025 at 3:39 PM, ayin jade said:

Even science believes that all of humanity is descended from one male and one female.

So how would that work exactly?  Wouldn't we all be severely inbred and deformed.  Is God ok with incest?  This sounds the opposite of what science would tell us.

[Vine Abider]

3 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

The POINT is clear, this is an Old Universe, not a Young Universe, and all the Constants or Laws of Nature that can be "Measured" show us this has to be true.

He gave us an Orderly Universe by using Math. 

Regarding two points you make above . . .

1. I too think it is an ancient universe and earth, and as @FreeGrace points out, this span of time is illustrated in what occurs between Gen 1:1 & 2.  And I believe this isn't man just trying to make scripture fit his notions - it is his discovery of things in natural laws that also fit scripture.* 

2. I think your point is that, as my old physics prof liked to say, "If we live in a well ordered universe, and we do, then this action will result in this result."  So the mind of God is well ordered (not the author of confusion), and that thinking results in things that adhere to certain laws (or mathematically derived results).  Right?

* I just came back from hiking again in the Grand Canyon, and was reminded of all the books I've read about the origins of that monumental chasm.  I've read a number of young earth and a number of old earth books, describing the theories of how the chasm occurred. But I have to say from all this reading, that one side of the argument presents ideas that asks the reader to have a really huge leap of faith. And to paraphrase the bottom-line of most all of those arguments is basically this: "We know the ideas presented for how the canyon was formed in a short amount of time might not make much sense. But this was something God did,  and He purposely made it to look as if it took a very long time (possibly to test us).  And since we know for a fact the earth is only six thousand years old (according to our obviously correct understanding of scripture), this must be the right explanation." 

PS - Thinking we live on an old earth does not make someone's theology or salvation askew, contrary to what some would vehemently argue.

[Revelation Man]

1 hour ago, Vine Abider said:

Regarding two points you make above . . .

1. I too think it is an ancient universe and earth, and as @FreeGrace points out, this span of time is illustrated in what occurs between Gen 1:1 & 2.  And I believe this isn't man just trying to make scripture fit his notions - it is his discovery of things in natural laws that also fit scripture.* 

Yes, and even on towards day 6, which I think lasted 300-350 million years, on page 22  placed my 8-10 year old blog up again, explaining how Creation and Gen. chapter 1 jibe, to the best of my ability in simple form. Day 7 of course has been ongoing for 6000 years now. When other stars form God did not pause His "rest" the order just came forth 13.7 billion years ago.

 

1 hour ago, Vine Abider said:

2. I think your point is that, as my old physics prof liked to say, "If we live in a well ordered universe, and we do, then this action will result in this result."  So the mind of God is well ordered (not the author of confusion), and that thinking results in things that adhere to certain laws (or mathematically derived results).  Right?

 

Correct, He did not just order matter to go forth, He ordered it to go forth in an orderly manner, he used Math to calculate His orders. Math comes from God, intelligent speech also comes from God.

1 hour ago, Vine Abider said:

He purposely made it to look as if it took a very long time (possibly to test us)

My answer to all this is God lives in all time, so why would He ever have to speed up time? They can never answer that.

 

1 hour ago, Vine Abider said:

PS - Thinking we live on an old earth does not make someone's theology or salvation askew, contrary to what some would vehemently argue.

True, but it costs us souls imho, young people or learned men hear that and scoff at what they see as blind people living in a fantasy world. We can not reach them because they see us as lightweights who will buy anything. 

[lrs68]

8 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

YES and the proof is He created the Universe 13.7 billion years ago. And he did not change anything, that is why we have the Speed of Light as a CONSTANT, if the earth is a young earth then the Speed of Light had to have been CHANGED to its current status, so, it is not a matter of what anyone "thinks" its just a fact based statement, the Laws of Nature like Speed of Light CAN NOT BE WHAT THEY NOW ARE, and this universe and earth be a young earth, the twain will not work. PERIOD.

If God created the Universe yesterday and it measures the current size it is now then the Speed of Light Method would still work.   The only thing actually flawed within the formula to calculating the age is the dating methods and the usage of the 1\2 shelf life theory. 

 

There's literally no possible way to verify the age of uranium or any substance because our oldest data we might have is Adam unless we believe in a pre-adamic age.