The preexistence of Christ

[EddieM]

The reaction of Jesus' critics to his statement-attempting to stone him (John 8:59)-confirms that they thought he was making a divine claim. Had Jesus stated only that he had been alive longer than Abraham, they might have regarded such a claim as crazy (as they apparently did with regard to his earlier comments, vv. 48-57), but not as an offense meriting stoning.

Of the offenses for which Jews practiced stoning, the only one that seems to fit the context here is blasphemy. Claiming to be older than Abraham might have been judged crazy, but it would not have been judged as blasphemy. Speaking as if one were Abraham's eternal God, on the other hand, would be quickly deemed blasphemous by Jesus' critics, who of course did not recognize his divine claims as valid. In another passage in his Gospel, John comments on the failure of many of the people to believe in Jesus despite the many miracles they had witnessed him perform. Although he had performed so many signs in their presence, they did not believe in him.... And so they could not believe, because Isaiah also said,

"He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, so that they might not look with their eyes, and understand with their heart and turn-and I would heal them." Isaiah said this because he saw his glory and spoke about him. (12:37, 39-41) The quotation in this passage is from Isaiah 6:10, part of the passage in which Isaiah recounts his call to the prophetic ministry. When John says that Isaiah "saw his glory," he means the glory of Jesus as the context makes clear (vv. 36-38; see also 1:14).

But in the context of Isaiah 6, the glory that Isaiah saw was the glory of the Lord. In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, high and lofty; and the hem of his robe filled the temple. Seraphs were in attendance above him; each had six wings: with two they covered their faces, and with two they covered their feet, and with two they flew. And one called to another and said: "Holy, holy, holy is the LORD of hosts; the whole earth is full of his glory."

Here again, John speaks of Jesus not only as having existed during Old Testament times but also as having been the glorious Lord who spoke to and through the prophets. Thus this passage is another affirmation in the New Testament of the divine preexistence of Jesus Christ.

The New Testament pushes the existence of the Son of God back long before the days of Israel. It teaches that Christ was around-and involved-in the creation of the world! We will explore this point later when we discuss the deeds or works of God that Christ performs, but we should take some notice of the main biblical statements now.

Paul wrote that "in him [God's Son] all things in heaven and on earth were created, things visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers-all things have been created through him and for him" (Col. 1:16). Paul's statement here clearly means that the Son existed before all things were created. What Paul says, of course, also distinguishes God's Son from the entire realm of all creation. The apostle John agreed: "All things came into being through him, and without him not one thing came into being.... He was in the world, and the world came into being through him; yet the world did not know him" (John 1:3, 10). The book of Hebrews says that God "has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom he also created the worlds" (1:2). The logic is simple enough: "If indeed everything came into being through Christ, then there is no option other than that he existed before that creation." In all three of these passages, the authors make other statements that confirm their meaning-the person known as Jesus Christ preexisted creation. After saying that all things were created in, through, and for the Son, Paul adds, "He himself is before all things, and in him all things hold together" (Col. 1:17). Paul here states emphatically that the Son exists prior to all creation." Since the creation of the universe is also the beginning of time (Heb. 1:2), to say that "If indeed everything came into being through Christ, then there is no option other than that he existed before that creation."

Christ exists "before" creation is to say in effect that he has always existed-that his existence had no beginning.

Paul's statement in an earlier epistle that Christians believe in "one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist" (1 Cor. 8:6) should likewise be understood to entail his existence before creation. Just before John states that all things came into existence through Christ-whom he calls the "Word" (logos)-John says, "In the beginning was the Word" (John 1:1). Here, John asserts that the Word already existed "in the beginning," hearkening back to the beginning of creation (cf. Gen. 1:1). That "the Word" was a person, and not some abstraction, is made clear by John's next statement, "and the Word was with God" (pros ton theon, 1:1). The word pros (here translated "with") in this context denotes personal association with someone else, as is confirmed later in the same Gospel when John says that Jesus was going "to depart from this world and go to the Father [pros ton patera]" and that he "had come from God and was going to God [pros ton theon]" (John 13:1, 3; see also John 7:33; 14:12, 28; 16:5, 10, 17, 28; 20:17).

The one who was close to God the Father in the very beginning had come from him and was about to depart and go back to be close to him again. The Gospel of John also reports that Jesus referred to his preexistence before creation in his majestic prayer to the Father: "So now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had in your presence before the world existed" (John 17:5). It is difficult to imagine a more explicit affirmation of Christ's existence before creation. To these statements we may add Jesus' statement, "Before Abraham came into being, I am" (John 8:58), which we discussed earlier.

[other one]

Jesus was/is/always will be, Yehweh, the God of Israel.  He is not the father though.  They are different beings, but one in essence.

[tatwo]

On 4/12/2025 at 4:08 PM, EddieM said:

The one who was close to God the Father in the very beginning had come from him and was about to depart and go back to be close to him again. The Gospel of John also reports that Jesus referred to his preexistence before creation in his majestic prayer to the Father: "So now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had in your presence before the world existed" (John 17:5). It is difficult to imagine a more explicit affirmation of Christ's existence before creation. To these statements we may add Jesus' statement, "Before Abraham came into being, I am" (John 8:58), which we discussed earlier.

It's a good post...nice job...may I ask what your point is if...it would be anything beyond your post perhaps?

For a child [Yahshua] will be born to us, a son [Yahshua] will be given to us; And the government will rest on His [Yahshua] shoulders; And His name [Yahshua] will be called Wonderful Counselor, [Yahshua] Mighty God, [Yahshua] Eternal Father, [Yahshua] Prince of Peace. [Yahshua] Isaiah 9:6 NASB

He [Yahshua] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.  (16)  For by Him [Yahshua] all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him [Yahshua] and for Him. [Yahshua]  (17)  He [Yahshua] is before all things, and in Him [Yahshua] all things hold together.  (18)  He [Yahshua] is also head of the body, the church; and He [Yahshua] is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself [Yahshua] will come to have first place in everything.  (19)  For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, [Yahshua] (20)  and through Him [Yahshua] to reconcile all things to Himself, [Yahshua] having made peace through the blood of His [Yahshua] cross; through Him, [Yahshua] I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven. Colosians 1:15-20 NASB

Tatwo...:)

[Live2believe]

On 4/18/2025 at 8:14 PM, tatwo said:

It's a good post...nice job...may I ask what your point is if...it would be anything beyond your post perhaps?

For a child [Yahshua] will be born to us, a son [Yahshua] will be given to us; And the government will rest on His [Yahshua] shoulders; And His name [Yahshua] will be called Wonderful Counselor, [Yahshua] Mighty God, [Yahshua] Eternal Father, [Yahshua] Prince of Peace. [Yahshua] Isaiah 9:6 NASB

He [Yahshua] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.  (16)  For by Him [Yahshua] all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him [Yahshua] and for Him. [Yahshua]  (17)  He [Yahshua] is before all things, and in Him [Yahshua] all things hold together.  (18)  He [Yahshua] is also head of the body, the church; and He [Yahshua] is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself [Yahshua] will come to have first place in everything.  (19)  For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, [Yahshua] (20)  and through Him [Yahshua] to reconcile all things to Himself, [Yahshua] having made peace through the blood of His [Yahshua] cross; through Him, [Yahshua] I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven. Colosians 1:15-20 NASB

Tatwo...:)

It is so good to see that the true name of the Savior, Yahshua, is being glorified!