Pre-Trib Rapture, some proofs

[WilliamL]

On 4/25/2025 at 3:13 PM, EddieM said:

2 – We are not appointed to wrath – This is a crucial reason the Rapture must occur before the Tribulation. Romans 5:9 says, “We shall be saved from wrath through Him.”

This is the common pre-Trib presumption that the Trib and the Wrath are the same thing. No such scripture says any such thing.

On 4/25/2025 at 3:13 PM, EddieM said:

3 – We are covered by the blood – Few could argue that the Tribulation is a time of pain, wrath, God’s judgment, darkness, and destruction over evil, the Antichrist, and the earth.

Nowhere does Scripture say that the Trib is God's judgment.

On 4/25/2025 at 3:13 PM, EddieM said:

4 – Zechariah 14:1-15 doesn’t mention a resurrection – This is an Old Testament picture of Jesus returning to earth at the Second Coming; yet again, there is no mention of any resurrection.

Because this Zech. 14 takes place long after the Rapture. Which fact doesn't prove pre-Trib in any way.

On 4/25/2025 at 3:13 PM, EddieM said:

9 – Two doors in Heaven – In the Revelation of Jesus Christ chapter 4:1, a door is opened. John the revelator is told, “Come up here.” As John is called to heaven to witness the Tribulation events unfold. This calling to heaven is prophetic of the church being caught up in the Rapture.

Pure presumption, again without without any Scriptural support.

On 4/25/2025 at 3:13 PM, EddieM said:

12 – The Holy Ones are already in Heaven – Zechariah 14:5 indicates that the saints are already in heaven.

Which, once again, does not supply any evidence to support a pre-Trib Rapture. (E.g., would apply equally to a pre-Wrath Rapture.)

[EddieM]

Please provide evidence for your position. It does no good to say "that's just a presumption" and think you have given enough information to show where I am wrong.

I don't mean a one-sentence statement, but counter each point with several paragraphs of showing where i am wrong.
 

[Locust]

that pre-Trib Rapture thing , who do you's have going 

[WilliamL]

On 5/8/2025 at 3:02 PM, WilliamL said:

On 4/25/2025 at 3:13 PM, EddieM said:

2 – We are not appointed to wrath – This is a crucial reason the Rapture must occur before the Tribulation. Romans 5:9 says, “We shall be saved from wrath through Him.”

This is the common pre-Trib presumption that the Trib and the Wrath are the same thing. No such scripture says any such thing.

 

On 5/8/2025 at 4:06 PM, EddieM said:

Please provide evidence for your position. It does no good to say "that's just a presumption" and think you have given enough information to show where I am wrong.

It is up to you to prove that Trib and the Wrath are the same thing, since that is your argument.

The Parousia of the Lord, foretold in Math. 24:3-31ff., 1 Cor. 15:23ff., 1 Thes. 4:14-17, and 2 Thes. 2:8 (among other places), is the time of the resurrection of the dead and the rapture of the elect. That Parousia and the events thereof come "after the Tribulation" (Matt. 24:29), but before the Wrath:

1 Thes. 5:2  For you yourselves know perfectly that the Day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. ... 9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Ergo, the Tribulation before the Parousia, the Wrath immediately following the Parousia.

 

[Montana Marv]

Not much has changed in the past 18 months or more.

First of all 1 Thes 5:9 implies only one thing; Receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, or experience Wrath, which is the Second Death.  Nothing to do with the wrath occurring during the 70 Week.  This verse was as valid when written as it is today.  Rev 20:15 - If anyone's name was not found written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the Lake of Fire, the Second Death of v 14.

This verse in 1 Thes does not support a Pre-Trib position or any other position relating to the 70th Week.  It is a non issue.

The Wrath of the latter half of the 70th Week, is no different than the Wrath that Sodom and Gomorrah experienced.  A time of people experiencing very bad things from God.

In Christ

Montana Marv