Christians, Politics, and Voting

[Marathoner]

2 hours ago, Anne2 said:

It is scripture. And no nation is righteous 100% of the time. Under righteous judges, then under righteous kings, Isreal was righteous at points in history. At those points in time they did well and prospered as God promised them.

 

And so is yours and everyone who responded to this thread including the one who created it

 

This is a public forum. When accusations are made I will respond.

 

As I said, it is scripture. We are not of the world, but still in it. Period.

This an object lesson regarding politics and the world: it divides and foments strife. This has no place in Christ.

With regard to scripture, we who belong to the Body of Christ are citizens of His kingdom; no one can serve two masters nor can we belong to more than one kingdom. I'm familiar with the various arguments which justify becoming embroiled in the world, something that is a cornerstone of cultural Christianity.

The apostle James exhorts us to love our neighbor as ourselves (diametrically opposed to political concerns), serve the fatherless and the widows, and keep ourselves from being stained by the world. There is no place for hatred nor opposition in the Body. By opposing our neighbor, we manifest works of the flesh.

The following is entirely scriptural and trustworthy: walk in the Spirit so one does not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Divisions, grumbling, hatred, and strife are ungodly and those who pursue such things will not inherit the Kingdom. 

[Anne2]

8 minutes ago, Marathoner said:

This an object lesson regarding politics and the world: it divides and foments strife. This has no place in Christ.

Not if one does not accuse the convictions of another. Your opinion has been noted.

Edited Wednesday at 04:13 PM by Anne2

[Alive]

52 minutes ago, Marathoner said:

This an object lesson regarding politics and the world: it divides and foments strife. This has no place in Christ.

With regard to scripture, we who belong to the Body of Christ are citizens of His kingdom; no one can serve two masters nor can we belong to more than one kingdom. I'm familiar with the various arguments which justify becoming embroiled in the world, something that is a cornerstone of cultural Christianity.

The apostle James exhorts us to love our neighbor as ourselves (diametrically opposed to political concerns), serve the fatherless and the widows, and keep ourselves from being stained by the world. There is no place for hatred nor opposition in the Body. By opposing our neighbor, we manifest works of the flesh.

The following is entirely scriptural and trustworthy: walk in the Spirit so one does not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Divisions, grumbling, hatred, and strife are ungodly and those who pursue such things will not inherit the Kingdom. 

It seems to me that your are making more of someone participating in a Representative Republic than is warranted. I appreciate your opinion. I agree with @other one. We as Christians have a civil responsibility to affect the course of elections fro the good of all, for the safety and well being of our neighbors. Of course it's true that we are citizens of Christ's Kingdom as we were transferred there as scripture states. However, while in these earthen vessels, we are also citizens of the state in which we reside. We use the roads and sidewalks, we benefit from the clean air and water and the relative safety provided by police and we have an abundance of foods and healthcare items provided in the context of such a wealthy state...thus we are clearly not severed entirely and are free to take part according to each person's conscience. We are indeed blessed as God has provided for all who live in such states. When the NT was written, the world was ruled by an emperor and inflexibly controlled by an army. Not so for us.

I do love my neighbor and wish him and his children a peaceful life.

[Locust]

1 hour ago, Alive said:

We as Christians have a civil responsibility to affect the course of elections fro the good of all, for the safety and well being of our neighbors.

in the book revelation it says there is a harlot riding ,making a beast go the way she wants . then there is this comment ''We as Christians have a civil responsibility to affect the course of elections fro the good of all''  well now.... if we look to see what the beast is going to do to the harlot ya may want to get off the beast's back.

[Marathoner]

2 hours ago, Alive said:

It seems to me that your are making more of someone participating in a Representative Republic than is warranted. I appreciate your opinion. I agree with @other one. We as Christians have a civil responsibility to affect the course of elections fro the good of all, for the safety and well being of our neighbors. Of course it's true that we are citizens of Christ's Kingdom as we were transferred there as scripture states. However, while in these earthen vessels, we are also citizens of the state in which we reside. We use the roads and sidewalks, we benefit from the clean air and water and the relative safety provided by police and we have an abundance of foods and healthcare items provided in the context of such a wealthy state...thus we are clearly not severed entirely and are free to take part according to each person's conscience. We are indeed blessed as God has provided for all who live in such states. When the NT was written, the world was ruled by an emperor and inflexibly controlled by an army. Not so for us.

I do love my neighbor and wish him and his children a peaceful life.

Not particularly, brother. In my first post in this  topic, I did not assert that anyone who belongs to Christ shouldn't vote. I pointed out that I'm not trying to tell others what they ought to do. 

I gave my reasons for steering clear of that, but I also mentioned the accusations I've been subject to when someone who participates in politics feels offended by my reasons. It's nothing new and it has indeed happened in this topic. I expect no more than that. 

I couldn't possibly care less why anyone chooses to engage themselves in political nonsense. That's your choice. Likening that entanglement to righteousness is a grave error, however. As I've pointed out elsewhere, and will repeat again, Romans 3 convicts all men and women of murder and wickedness. Not a single nation of this earth practices righteousness. 

I've never heard a scriptural refutation of that assertion. I can furnish scriptural support of my position:

The only nation that practices righteousness is the Kingdom of God, only His kingdom is not of this world. No one can serve two masters.

I should include this: not everyone who votes engages in politics beyond voting. I'm referring specifically to those who claim that voting is a "Christian responsibility." That's just an opinion. 

[Locust]

3 hours ago, Marathoner said:

I've never heard a scriptural refutation of that assertion. I can furnish scriptural support of my position:

did Jesus say to vote ? or did he point out that those that fallow him would be no part of the world ??    John 17:16

[Marathoner]

It would be good to write about what is meant by being in this world. Romans 12 is an excellent reference to demonstrate what this means.

The following is sourced from the NASB.

Therefore I urge you, brothers and sisters, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect. (Romans 12:1-2)

The Body of Christ is not conformed to this world. What does this mean? Refusing to engage in its customs and becoming burdened by its cares. By doing so, one is thereby conformed to this world. 

For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith. (Romans 12:3)

The antithesis of the above is to consider oneself better than one's opponents, the hallmark of the pursuit of worldly power personified by politics and political allegiance. As I wrote earlier, opposition is the root of political burdens.

Love must be free of hypocrisy. Detest what is evil; cling to what is good. Be devoted to one another in brotherly love; give preference to one another in honor, not lagging behind in diligence, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord; rejoicing in hope, persevering in tribulation, devoted to prayer, contributing to the needs of the saints, practicing hospitality. (Romans 12:9-13)

The hypocrisy of the world is made manifest in murders and theft while the worldly claim moral superiority over their opponents, that their superiority is found in the "godly" desire to impose tyranny upon those who fall under their power. This is a consequence of being conformed to this world, which we know is wickedness. We expect no more.

Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. (Romans 12:14)

The suspicion, the vitriol, the accusations, derision, and hatred evidenced by world towards their avowed enemies comes as no surprise to us. Becoming the enemy of one's neighbor is the custom of the world, but it is not our custom. We love our enemies and bless them; we do not seek to harm our enemy. 

[AnOrangeCat]

13 hours ago, Marathoner said:

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect. (Romans 12:1-2)

I've often seen the many verses that instruct us to study and reflect on the Bible and Philippians 4:8 as companion verses to that one: " Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things."

It hits on the notion of garbage in, garbage out, or rather, the reverse of it. Focus on what turns our thoughts on God.

13 hours ago, Marathoner said:

The antithesis of the above is to consider oneself better than one's opponents, the hallmark of the pursuit of worldly power personified by politics and political allegiance. As I wrote earlier, opposition is the root of political burdens.

This also touches on something important. There are a good many political issues that have some overlap with Christian values and aims, but it's just that: overlap. When people equate this overlap with actual Christianity and take it into the realm of allegiance it gets problematic.