The Wonderful Fruit of the Spirit - it's just Christ in us!

[Sower]

                  John 15
  
      "Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine,
         neither can you, unless you abide in me"

"I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit,
         for apart from me you can do nothing"
 

[Vine Abider]

1 hour ago, Alive said:

50 plus years ago when Christ revealed Himself to me He led me to Watchman Nee and the Lord used his writings to lay a solid foundation in me before ever joining a congregation. After some time the pastor where I found myself asked me to teach a study based on what I had consumed. I very much to this day thank the Lord for WN. Much time has passed and the core of that remains and has been strengthened...Christ is my Life. I died and yet I live. I don't think I agree with anybody in total.

Witness Lee is a very, very different fella. I never read his stuff--but I recall the little I did many years ago--caused me to run.

Along with the Normal Christian Life I suggest Sit, Walk and Stand and Changed into His Likeness and What Shall This Man Do.

T. Austin Sparks can be very helpful as well.

Amen to all you said - and those Nee books are good!

Lee, on the other hand . . .  I spent years of discussion with various ones debating what was "baby" (to keep) and what was "dirty bath water" (to throw out) of his teachings and practices.  I have generally chosen to move on from that laborious, ongoing debate.

Now Sparks' writings I certainly do see as very good and always leading to a healthy focus of Christ in us.

[steve morrow]

CORE  ESSENTIALS  ---  DONT  AGREE  WITH  ANYBODY  IN  TOTAL ???

 

1 JOHN 2:6  he that saith he abideth in  HIM  ought himself also so to walk as  HE  walked 

1 JOHN 2:27  but the anointing which you have received of  HIM  abideth in you and you need not  --that any man teach you-- but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things --AND  IS  TRUTH-- and is no lie -- and even as it hath taught you you shall abide in  HIM

 

JOHN 12:48  HE  that rejecteth  ME  and receiveth not  MY  words hath one that judgeth him the word that I have spoken the same shall judge him in the last day 

--12:49-- for I have not spoken of myself but  THE  FATHER  which sent  ME  HE  gave  ME  a commandment what I should say and what I should speak 

--12:50--  and I know that  HIS  commandment is life everlasting whatsoever I speak therefore even as  THE  FATHER  said unto  ME  so I speak

 

JOHN 5:34  but I receive not testimony from man but these things --I  SAY-- that you might be saved 

 

2 CORINTHIANS 13:8  for we can do nothing against the truth --but for the truth--

 

PSALM 60:11  give us help from trouble for vain is the help of man 

 

2 PETER 1:3  according as  HIS  divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness through the knowledge of  HIM  that hath called us to glory and virtue 

 

PROVERBS 18:21  death and life are in the power of the tongue and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof

 

1 PETER 2:21  for even hereunto were you called because  CHRIST  also suffered for us leaving us an example that you should follow  HIS  steps

 

HEBREWS 13:6  so that we may boldly say --THE  LORD  IS  MY  HELPER-- and I will not fear what man shall do unto me 

 

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST 

[Alive]

8 minutes ago, steve morrow said:

CORE  ESSENTIALS  ---  DONT  AGREE  WITH  ANYBODY  IN  TOTAL ???

 

1 JOHN 2:6  he that saith he abideth in  HIM  ought himself also so to walk as  HE  walked 

1 JOHN 2:27  but the anointing which you have received of  HIM  abideth in you and you need not  --that any man teach you-- but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things --AND  IS  TRUTH-- and is no lie -- and even as it hath taught you you shall abide in  HIM

 

JOHN 12:48  HE  that rejecteth  ME  and receiveth not  MY  words hath one that judgeth him the word that I have spoken the same shall judge him in the last day 

--12:49-- for I have not spoken of myself but  THE  FATHER  which sent  ME  HE  gave  ME  a commandment what I should say and what I should speak 

--12:50--  and I know that  HIS  commandment is life everlasting whatsoever I speak therefore even as  THE  FATHER  said unto  ME  so I speak

 

JOHN 5:34  but I receive not testimony from man but these things --I  SAY-- that you might be saved 

 

2 CORINTHIANS 13:8  for we can do nothing against the truth --but for the truth--

 

PSALM 60:11  give us help from trouble for vain is the help of man 

 

2 PETER 1:3  according as  HIS  divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness through the knowledge of  HIM  that hath called us to glory and virtue 

 

PROVERBS 18:21  death and life are in the power of the tongue and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof

 

1 PETER 2:21  for even hereunto were you called because  CHRIST  also suffered for us leaving us an example that you should follow  HIS  steps

 

HEBREWS 13:6  so that we may boldly say --THE  LORD  IS  MY  HELPER-- and I will not fear what man shall do unto me 

 

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST 

I am sorry I was not more clear. What I mean is that I have never met anyone with whom I agree 100%.

This isn't a criticism, it is what it is.

[TheBlade]

Hey my brother praise GOD thanks for this. You know Christ said unless He goes the holy Spirit will not come "The fruit of the Spirit". We know the sweet holy Spirit is a person that does not speak of Him self but only what He hears from the Father/Christ "But when He, the Spirit of Truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth [full and complete truth]. For He will not speak on His own initiative, but He will speak whatever He hears [from the Father—the message regarding the Son], and He will disclose to you what is to come [in the future]."

And in Acts "the holy spirit said" "While they were serving the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for Me Barnabas and Saul (Paul) for the work to which I have called them.”

[PATrobas]

The Green Letters by Miles J. Stanford also speak to these things. I have found them helpful to spur me on to "rest" in the completed works of Christ in me. I echo the importance of the truth in 2 Cor. 4:7 as @Alive mentioned.

[Marathoner]

21 hours ago, Alive said:

50 plus years ago when Christ revealed Himself to me He led me to Watchman Nee and the Lord used his writings to lay a solid foundation in me before ever joining a congregation. After some time the pastor where I found myself asked me to teach a study based on what I had consumed. I very much to this day thank the Lord for WN. Much time has passed and the core of that remains and has been strengthened...Christ is my Life. I died and yet I live. I don't think I agree with anybody in total.

Witness Lee is a very, very different fella. I never read his stuff--but I recall the little I did many years ago--caused me to run.

Along with the Normal Christian Life I suggest Sit, Walk and Stand and Changed into His Likeness and What Shall This Man Do.

T. Austin Sparks can be very helpful as well.

I encountered Watchman Nee's books not long after I came to Christ. They had an immense impact upon me and that remains to this day. 

I never looked into Witness Lee, though. 

[Vine Abider]

2 hours ago, Marathoner said:

I encountered Watchman Nee's books not long after I came to Christ. They had an immense impact upon me and that remains to this day. 

I never looked into Witness Lee, though. 

Without going into too much detail, Lee was a younger contemporary of Nee and could be considered a protege. Nee got jailed by the communists and Lee went to Taiwan and eventually the USA in the 60s in southern CA. Lee strongly promoted the "one church - one city" idea, meaning in the NT we see the church as simply having a label according to where the believers lived and met.  Hence the city they were in, like: the Church in Ephesus; Church in Jerusalem, etc. - all believers in that city were considered one ekkelsia in that locality.  Therefore those following Lee's teaching were referred to as the "local church" in that city (e.g., The Church in Anaheim). The teaching was referred to as "the ground of oneness."

The teaching isn't without merit, but they really became elitist, shunning other groups of Christians who didn't drop their denominational names to come practice the "oneness" with them.  Lee often disparaged Christendom (again, not without some merit*), but the group really looked down upon and separated themselves from other Christians.  The characteristics of Laodicea started to become manifest and now they pretty much only read Lee's materials (with some Watchman Nee).  The so-called "ground of oneness" doctrine became a focus and just another point of division in the body of Christ - anything we focus on other than Christ, no matter how good, usually just results in another division!

* I say this has some merit simply because of the condition of the overall church in this age, with hundreds of divisions, of which we are all aware of its shortcomings.  This degraded state is somewhat "natural" in that we all still have the flesh, which is by nature, quite divisive.  Yet God sees the church as a new creation and glorious - this is a matter of standing in faith for us, in that He is able to present us to Himself glorious and "without spot, wrinkle or any such thing!"

[Alive]

14 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Without going into too much detail, Lee was younger contemporary of Nee and could be considered a protege. Nee got jailed by the communists and Lee went to Taiwan and eventually the USA in the 60s in southern CA. Lee strongly promoted the "one church - one city" idea, meaning in the NT we see the church as simply having a label according to where the believers lived and met.  Hence the city they were in: Church in Ephesus; Church in Jerusalem, etc. - all believers in that city were considered one ekkelsia in that locality.  Therefore those following Lee's teaching were referred to as the "local church" in that city (e.g., The Church in Anaheim). The teaching was referred to as "the ground of oneness."

The teaching isn't without merit, but they really became elitist, shunning other groups of Christians who didn't drop their denominational names and come meet with them.  Lee often disparaged Christendom (again, not without some merit*), but the group really looked down upon and separated themselves from other Christians.  The characteristics of Laodicea started to become manifest and now they pretty much only read Lee's materials, with some Watchman Nee.  The so-called "ground of oneness" doctrine became a focus and just another point of division in the body of Christ - anything we focus on other than Christ, no matter how good, results in division!

* I say this has some merit simply because of the condition of the overall church with hundreds of divisions, which we are all aware of shortcomings.  This degraded state is somewhat "natural" in that we all still have the flesh, which is by nature, quite divisive.  Yet God sees the church as a new creation and glorious - this is a matter of standing on faith for us, that He is able to present us to Himself glorious and "without spot, wrinkle or any such thing!"

A good example of how to tell whether something is of His Spirit...the Holy Spirit's two primary functions for us are to convict of sin and point to Christ. In any assembly Christ must be the Head, the focus and reason for gathering.

[cma]

On 6/3/2025 at 9:49 AM, Vine Abider said:

When I was younger I did read their things a good deal, as did the group I was in. In the 80s/early 90s it became apparent to me that things were off with some of the teachings and practices Lee promoted, and that this group was quite elitist in their thinking. So I stopped meeting with them and reading Lee's things and got rid of his books. (However, I did keep one of his books, that taught how we should hold the core essentials of our faith tightly and the nonessentials loosely, when it comes to fellowshipping in the body of Christ.)  The Lord really spoke to me through this book about our oneness in Spirit with all believers - it's a shame that Lee, and those who still follow him (i.e., "Local Churches"), didn't take those principles to heart in what they practice!

As for watchman Nee, I didn't see the errors in his writings/practices, although I know some do have issues with some things by him (and certain things he supposedly did).  A few things by Nee I'm not sure if I fully agree on, and have been chewing on for decades . . . . But a few writings of Nee, like the classic "The Normal Christian Life" have been gone through repeatedly over the years, in the group I've been meeting with for over 25 years.  BTW - this current group I fellowship in was part of the "Local Church" movement, but was basically shown the door back in the mid 1980s, because they wouldn't come under the central authority of Lee's ministry and adhere to his writings exclusively.

Bottom line is if one wanted to apply a known label to what I believe the Lord is showing me these days, it might be called "inner life."  What I see in the bible as the new covenant, is Christ coming to live in us to be our source of life.  What are your views of "this treasure in earthen vessels"?

Hopefully I didn't go into too much detail to answer your simple question . . .

I'm glad you don't meet with them anymore...