The he goat and ram in Daniel 8

[luigi]

I have posted on this topic in the past, but I do not know exactly where this data is, so due to recent developments, I bring this topic again in this new post.

According to recent developments in the Middle East, the U.S. is now sending an unprecedented number of aircraft towards the Middle East (one website for this news provided below). So where do we see this described in the Bible. Daniel 8:3-4, describes a ram with two horns (representing Media and Persia), who pushes at his neighboring nations. The rams hostile actions provoke a he goat (metaphorically representing Grecia), to traverse the whole earth from the West, who then annihilates Media and Persia (Daniel 8:5-7).

To keep this topic focused on current events;--in my previous posts on this topic, many individuals here posted that the he goat represented Alexander the great. I, however, pointed out that according to the angel Gabriel in Daniel 8:17 & 19, the actions of the he goat and ram were to occur during the end times of our current world order under Satan. Others brought up the fact that the he goat represented Grecia, and its first king according to Daniel 8:21. I, however, brought up the fact that Grecia who traversed the whole earth from the West without touching the ground, was a metaphorical representation for a nation that did not exist in the 6th century BC, when Daniel was provided this data. Additionally, what I add today is that Alexander the Great was not ancient Greece's first king, and as such does not meet the criteria for a nations first king who traverses the whole earth from the West to annihilate Media and Persia, whose nations today represent Iraq and Iran. As such, Media being Iraq of today represents the less higher horn of the ram, while the higher horn represents Persia/Iran, which would come up later, and would be destroyed last by the he goats air force traversing the whole earth from the West without touching the ground.

https://www.commondreams.org/news/u-s-israel-iran?utm_source=Common+Dreams&utm_campaign=6678881cc1-Top+News%3A+Mon.+6%2F16%2F25&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_-c56d0ea580-600560343

Daniel 8:3 Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last.

[Charlie744]

7 hours ago, luigi said:

I have posted on this topic in the past, but I do not know exactly where this data is, so due to recent developments, I bring this topic again in this new post.

According to recent developments in the Middle East, the U.S. is now sending an unprecedented number of aircraft towards the Middle East (one website for this news provided below). So where do we see this described in the Bible. Daniel 8:3-4, describes a ram with two horns (representing Media and Persia), who pushes at his neighboring nations. The rams hostile actions provoke a he goat (metaphorically representing Grecia), to traverse the whole earth from the West, who then annihilates Media and Persia (Daniel 8:5-7).

To keep this topic focused on current events;--in my previous posts on this topic, many individuals here posted that the he goat represented Alexander the great. I, however, pointed out that according to the angel Gabriel in Daniel 8:17 & 19, the actions of the he goat and ram were to occur during the end times of our current world order under Satan. Others brought up the fact that the he goat represented Grecia, and its first king according to Daniel 8:21. I, however, brought up the fact that Grecia who traversed the whole earth from the West without touching the ground, was a metaphorical representation for a nation that did not exist in the 6th century BC, when Daniel was provided this data. Additionally, what I add today is that Alexander the Great was not ancient Greece's first king, and as such does not meet the criteria for a nations first king who traverses the whole earth from the West to annihilate Media and Persia, whose nations today represent Iraq and Iran. As such, Media being Iraq of today represents the less higher horn of the ram, while the higher horn represents Persia/Iran, which would come up later, and would be destroyed last by the he goats air force traversing the whole earth from the West without touching the ground.

https://www.commondreams.org/news/u-s-israel-iran?utm_source=Common+Dreams&utm_campaign=6678881cc1-Top+News%3A+Mon.+6%2F16%2F25&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_-c56d0ea580-600560343

Daniel 8:3 Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last.

God gave us the book of Daniel to reveal His plan of restoration and salvation for His people as they would return to Jerusalem after being exiled for 70 years for disobeying God. So, the book of Daniel was written “for the Jews.” Not today’s Jews but those in exiles from 606BC. And through this journey back to Jerusalem, God would take His people through these 4 and only 4 kingdoms. Further, and of course this is only something God to possibly do, He also incorporated His plan of restoration and salvation fir ALL of mankind. 
 

So, we find His people being captured by the first kingdom of Babylon where they will stay for 70 years. Then, in a miraculous manner, this powerful king / kingdom with a completely impregnable facility would be conquered essentially without firing a shot- who could make this stuff up?

And this would turn out to be the second of the 4 kingdoms in God’s plan of restoration and salvation for His people, the Medes-Persians aligned together and conquered Babylon. Thus, the two horns. 

And in another very unbelievable way, the king of this kingdom, Cyrus would read about how he would conquer Babylon in the Jewish Scriptures that were written some many years earlier - even before there was a “Persian Empire.” So based on this Cyrus allowed the Jews to return to Jerusalem after being. As you can see just how these kings, kingdoms and literal events took place THEN. And each of the 4 kingdoms in God’s plan of restoration and salvation in the book of Daniel would fulfill their God given mission in the restoring of His people to Jerusalem. So once again, their timing, their creation and coming to power and their God given mission all speaks of those times - they have no meaning to today’s nations. 
 

But God would also reveal the coming of a 3rd kingdom around those times and would also play an important roles in His plan of restoration and salvation of His people… and remember, God is always referring these prophecies and events that occur to His people - Israel who were  taken captive- they don’t speak to today’s current events. They were not meant to! 
 

It was this 3rd kingdom of Greece who was ruled by this one horn - Alexander. He was certainly known for his military brilliance and his absolute swiftness in conquering his enemies. And he did just that in some 13 years! He also had a God given mission to eliminate not only the Persians, but he also eliminated all of the nations before the Jews were taken into exile that severely murdered and mistreated them. Alexander destroyed each and every one of them. So once again, we see that all of these things, the kings, the kingdoms, the timing of their coming and certainly their God given mission can not be separated… They are all necessary to specifically identify themselves to us and their place and time in history. 

And then God reveals the 4th kingdom that will be known as Rome. And this too refers to the time after Greece when the Jews would be back in Jerusalem. Now, God has brought His people back from the exile in Babylon and they have restored all of their systems, their rituals and practices, the 7 festivals, the daily animal sacrifices, etc. And this is the kingdom when the Messiah would arrive on earth. This was to be the fulfillment of their return and the arrival of their Messiah. 
 

So, these 4 kingdoms can only speak of those times. Daniel does not speak of today’s current events or nations, etc. 

God even included the most important time prophecy in Scripture within this plan of restoration and salvation for His people! The 70 weeks of years covers from 457 BC to 3.5 years after the cross. These kingdoms, these kings and all the unbelievable events that took place in the book of Daniel took place from 606 BC to the time of Christ. 
 

One cannot separate these events or kingdoms or kings, or the mission given to those kingdoms and throw them some 2 to 3000 years into the future so we might try and make ch them to some current events that does nothing more than show how man continues to wage war against each other. “There will be wars and timers of wars…,” they must continue because our fallen nature continues.

 

 

 

 

 

[luigi]

15 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

God gave us the book of Daniel to reveal His plan of restoration and salvation for His people as they would return to Jerusalem after being exiled for 70 years for disobeying God. So, the book of Daniel was written “for the Jews.” Not today’s Jews but those in exiles from 606BC. And through this journey back to Jerusalem, God would take His people through these 4 and only 4 kingdoms. Further, and of course this is only something God to possibly do, He also incorporated His plan of restoration and salvation fir ALL of mankind. 
 

So, we find His people being captured by the first kingdom of Babylon where they will stay for 70 years. Then, in a miraculous manner, this powerful king / kingdom with a completely impregnable facility would be conquered essentially without firing a shot- who could make this stuff up?

And this would turn out to be the second of the 4 kingdoms in God’s plan of restoration and salvation for His people, the Medes-Persians aligned together and conquered Babylon. Thus, the two horns. 

And in another very unbelievable way, the king of this kingdom, Cyrus would read about how he would conquer Babylon in the Jewish Scriptures that were written some many years earlier - even before there was a “Persian Empire.” So based on this Cyrus allowed the Jews to return to Jerusalem after being. As you can see just how these kings, kingdoms and literal events took place THEN. And each of the 4 kingdoms in God’s plan of restoration and salvation in the book of Daniel would fulfill their God given mission in the restoring of His people to Jerusalem. So once again, their timing, their creation and coming to power and their God given mission all speaks of those times - they have no meaning to today’s nations. 
 

But God would also reveal the coming of a 3rd kingdom around those times and would also play an important roles in His plan of restoration and salvation of His people… and remember, God is always referring these prophecies and events that occur to His people - Israel who were  taken captive- they don’t speak to today’s current events. They were not meant to! 
 

It was this 3rd kingdom of Greece who was ruled by this one horn - Alexander. He was certainly known for his military brilliance and his absolute swiftness in conquering his enemies. And he did just that in some 13 years! He also had a God given mission to eliminate not only the Persians, but he also eliminated all of the nations before the Jews were taken into exile that severely murdered and mistreated them. Alexander destroyed each and every one of them. So once again, we see that all of these things, the kings, the kingdoms, the timing of their coming and certainly their God given mission can not be separated… They are all necessary to specifically identify themselves to us and their place and time in history. 

And then God reveals the 4th kingdom that will be known as Rome. And this too refers to the time after Greece when the Jews would be back in Jerusalem. Now, God has brought His people back from the exile in Babylon and they have restored all of their systems, their rituals and practices, the 7 festivals, the daily animal sacrifices, etc. And this is the kingdom when the Messiah would arrive on earth. This was to be the fulfillment of their return and the arrival of their Messiah. 
 

So, these 4 kingdoms can only speak of those times. Daniel does not speak of today’s current events or nations, etc. 

God even included the most important time prophecy in Scripture within this plan of restoration and salvation for His people! The 70 weeks of years covers from 457 BC to 3.5 years after the cross. These kingdoms, these kings and all the unbelievable events that took place in the book of Daniel took place from 606 BC to the time of Christ. 
 

One cannot separate these events or kingdoms or kings, or the mission given to those kingdoms and throw them some 2 to 3000 years into the future so we might try and make ch them to some current events that does nothing more than show how man continues to wage war against each other. “There will be wars and timers of wars…,” they must continue because our fallen nature continues.

 

 

 

 

 

You disregard the angel Gabriel who informs us that the events shown Daniel of the ram and the he-goat are to occur during these end times of corruption (Daniel 8:17 & 19). The verses in Daniel 8 were not meant for the exodus in 606 BC. Even Daniel testifies that He did not understand the vision shown Him (Daniel 8:27), and therefore was not meant for him or the 606 BC crowd.

Daniel 8:17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

Daniel 8:19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.

Daniel 8:27 And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up, and did the king's business; and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it.

[luigi]

For those of us who understand the data in Daniel 7 through 12 in relation to these end times, as Daniel 8:17 & 19, and Daniel 12:4 & 9 testify;-- these scriptures are now no longer sealed and closed up, where many individuals throughout the world seeking these data are now beginning to understand what they truly represent. When Daniel 8:21 refers to the annihilation of Media and Persia through Grecia's first king; we now understand the allegorical kingdom of Grecia who traverses the entire earth from the West without touching the ground (through its air force) to annihilate Iraq and Iran by orders from its first king-- did not previously have a king, but had a different type of governmental system, other than that of a monarchy.

Daniel 8:17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

Daniel 8:19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Daniel 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

Daniel 8:21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.

[Charlie744]

6 hours ago, luigi said:

You disregard the angel Gabriel who informs us that the events shown Daniel of the ram and the he-goat are to occur during these end times of corruption (Daniel 8:17 & 19). The verses in Daniel 8 were not meant for the exodus in 606 BC. Even Daniel testifies that He did not understand the vision shown Him (Daniel 8:27), and therefore was not meant for him or the 606 BC crowd.

Daniel 8:17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

Daniel 8:19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.

Daniel 8:27 And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up, and did the king's business; and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it.

I don't believe you completely understand these verses. First, you must review the very different interpretations of the word "vision" that is used within chapter 8. There are nine times this word is presented in the English language, however, 6 of thes words refer to the Hebrew word "chazon," while three refer to the Hebrew word "mareh." They are very different and each speaks to a very different time element. One speaks of the end of time while the other speaks of the time of the end of the vision - and the vision or mareh vision speaks to the time of the Messiah - the end  of the 70 weeks of years prophecy.

 

Secndly, Daniel does not understand the vision -again, what vision is God referring to? One has to identify this very specific vision before one understands why Daniel nor anyone could possibly understand it. This too refers to the coming Messiah - not an end time vision. Meaning, there is absolutely no way anyone could possibly understand the coming of the Messiah and how His people would reject and crucify Him.... paints a completely different picture when you understand just how specific God's prophecy are in Daniel.

[Charlie744]

5 hours ago, luigi said:

For those of us who understand the data in Daniel 7 through 12 in relation to these end times, as Daniel 8:17 & 19, and Daniel 12:4 & 9 testify;-- these scriptures are now no longer sealed and closed up, where many individuals throughout the world seeking these data are now beginning to understand what they truly represent. When Daniel 8:21 refers to the annihilation of Media and Persia through Grecia's first king; we now understand the allegorical kingdom of Grecia who traverses the entire earth from the West without touching the ground (through its air force) to annihilate Iraq and Iran by orders from its first king-- did not previously have a king, but had a different type of governmental system, other than that of a monarchy.

Daniel 8:17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

Daniel 8:19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Daniel 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

Daniel 8:21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.

I don't think you have these prophecies interpreted correctly. First, chapter 2 sets up the 4 and only 4 kingdoms found in God's plan of restoration and salvation for His people from Babylon. Thus, the period covers from 606 BC - the time of their exile to the end of time. However, approximately 90% of Daniel not only provides the big picture or blueprint for their return to Jerusalem, but He repeats these same 4 kingdoms in chapters 7 and 8. They are also found to be identified in chapter 11. Certainly God does give us an understanding (big picture only, and not in a focused manner - since no more than 10% of Daniel mentions the end times, if that much). So, the lion's share of Daniel does speak in a macro and micro manner of the period from their exile in 606 BC to the end of the 70 weeks of years prophecy or 3.5 years after the cross. Then, maybe 5% of so discusses the time period from the end of the cross to the coming of the little horn and the appropriation of His church (almost all of chapter 11). The remaining 5% or less speakes in broad terms of the end times which is chapter 12 - a very short chapter and the very last 5 verses of chapter 11.

 

Additionally, you will also have to go back and review the true meanings of the terms "seal up" or "close up" as well as to get a true understanding of the terms use in Daniel "at the time of the end." As mentioned in my last response to you, there are really two endings - one that occurs at the time of the cross - the time of the indignation when God is rejected and crucified by His people and the true end times. But these 4 possibilities among these terms are very different.

 

Finally, the 4 kingdoms identified in chapter 2 - the blueprint that God provides us with - gives us the 4 kingdoms and the borders and boundaries of these 4 kingdoms do not change - ever in the the book of Daniel. The 4 kptringdoms in chapter 2 are the same found in chapter 7 and chapter 8 and 11.. so on. God simply gives us a different view so we can obtain so much more information about the prophecies that will take place within the 4 and only 4 kingdoms He has brought out of the sea. God is giving us His prophecies, that are so exact and timely within these 4 kingdoms ... amazing.

[WilliamL]

Regarding Daniel 8:17 and 19, etc.:

“a time of an end”

Daniel 8:17 …כִּי/because לְעֶת־/for a time of קֵץ/ an end [is] הֶחָזֹֽון/the vision/revelation.

“…because the vision is for a time of an end.”

– not “the time of the end,” as this is generally mistranslated. (There is no ה/“the” before קץ.) That interpretation has imposed within it the presumption that there is only one time when there will be an end. But other prophetic, already-fulfilled times, ends, and time-of-end passages can be seen in Ezekiel 7:2-12 and 21:25, 29 (the latter verses generally mistranslated).

Daniel 8:19 …אֲשֶׁר־/what יִהְיֶה/shall happen בְּאַחֲרִית/in the latter (part/time) of הַזָּעַם/the fury/rage, כִּי/because [it is] לְמֹועֵד/for an appointed time קֵֽץ/of an end.

“…what shall happen in the latter part of the fury, because it is for an appointed time of an end.”

Again, the Hebrew does not say, as this is generally mistranslated, “at the appointed time (shall be) the end.” Like with verse 17, nothing of this event relates to our day either. To give a similar example, Daniel 11:29 prophesies “at the appointed time he [Antiochus] shall return and go toward the south,” but that “appointed time” prophecy was fulfilled in 168 B.C.

Daniel 8:23 וּֽבְאַחֲרִית/And in the latter (part/time) מַלְכוּתָם/of malkutham/their kingdom, כְּהָתֵם/while bringing to fullness [Hiphil Infin. with prefixכ: “while, when”] הַפֹּשְׁעִים/the transgressing/rebelling ones [Qal Active Participle, plural], מֶלֶךְ/a king יַעֲמֹד/shall arise…

“And in the latter part of their kingdom, while the rebelling ones/transgressors are bringing to fullness their apostasy, a king shall arise…”

These three verses, 8:17, 19, 23, are where translators and commentators often go astray, imposing words and understanding not expressed in the Hebrew. In these and similar Hebrew prophetic texts, a common default presumption of translators has been that every “time of an end,” “Day of the LORD,” and “latter day/time” must refer to the end of OUR age. This is not true at all: there have been many “ends” of kingdoms and eras prophesied that have already come to pass. For example:

Jeremiah 46:2 Against Egypt. Concerning the army of Pharaoh Necho, King of Egypt, which was by the River Euphrates in Carchemish, which Nebuchadrezzar King of Babylon smote in the fourth year of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah. … 10 For this is the Day of the Lord GOD of hosts, a day of vengeance…

This historically-famous “Day of the LORD” battle took place in 610 B.C. Other fulfilled Day of the LORD prophecies include Joel 1:15 (but not Joel 2-3), and Ezekiel 7:19 and 13:5. The final “end”/Day of the LORD/last of the last days does not come until the end of the 7th Millennium, “when He [Christ] delivers the kingdom to God the Father…[having] put an end to all rule and all authority and power.” 1 Cor. 15:24

Daniel 8:23 defines the very era of the 2300-day abasement of Jerusalemʼs Temple: “in the latter part/time of their [the Greek] kingdom.” By 168 B.C., only the significantly-diminished Seleucid and Ptolemaic kingdoms remained out of Alexanderʼs once vast empire. Therefore, the “fierce king” and ha-poshim/“the rebelling ones” of verse 23 can only be Antiochus Epiphanes and the Jewish apostates, respectively. All of the verses from 8:23-28 prophesy about the qualities and acts of Antiochus: they do not prophesy about OUR times.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1576-part-2-conclusion/

 

[luigi]

Whatever some wish to interpret the visions Daniel was referring to in Daniel 8 other than those presented in the chapter; and whatever some  wish to interpret end times in Daniel chapters 8 and 12, to mean other than these end times; there are some of us here and throughout the world who recognize the visions Daniel was shown in chapters 7 through 12 to represent the current era that is spiraling downward. The angel Gabriel who informed Daniel in chapter 8:17 & 19 about the visions in chapter 8 in reference to these end times, also told Daniel that the visions shown him in chapters 10 through 12 were in relation to the end times. When Daniel then inquired as to the meaning of these visions, he was then informed that the visions were shut until these end times, at which time they would be open, and the data contained understood (Daniel 12:8-9). If individuals therefore do not wish to acknowledge events currently transpiring that match the visions shown in Daniel chapter 8; I then believe it's due to some ulterior motive other than wanting to understand the truth, and some individuals will therefore unfortunately be among those who will never understand the truth (Daniel 12:10).  

Daniel 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? 9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

Daniel 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

 

[Charlie744]

1 hour ago, WilliamL said:

Regarding Daniel 8:17 and 19, etc.:

“a time of an end”

Daniel 8:17 …כִּי/because לְעֶת־/for a time of קֵץ/ an end [is] הֶחָזֹֽון/the vision/revelation.

“…because the vision is for a time of an end.”

– not “the time of the end,” as this is generally mistranslated. (There is no ה/“the” before קץ.) That interpretation has imposed within it the presumption that there is only one time when there will be an end. But other prophetic, already-fulfilled times, ends, and time-of-end passages can be seen in Ezekiel 7:2-12 and 21:25, 29 (the latter verses generally mistranslated).

Daniel 8:19 …אֲשֶׁר־/what יִהְיֶה/shall happen בְּאַחֲרִית/in the latter (part/time) of הַזָּעַם/the fury/rage, כִּי/because [it is] לְמֹועֵד/for an appointed time קֵֽץ/of an end.

“…what shall happen in the latter part of the fury, because it is for an appointed time of an end.”

Again, the Hebrew does not say, as this is generally mistranslated, “at the appointed time (shall be) the end.” Like with verse 17, nothing of this event relates to our day either. To give a similar example, Daniel 11:29 prophesies “at the appointed time he [Antiochus] shall return and go toward the south,” but that “appointed time” prophecy was fulfilled in 168 B.C.

Daniel 8:23 וּֽבְאַחֲרִית/And in the latter (part/time) מַלְכוּתָם/of malkutham/their kingdom, כְּהָתֵם/while bringing to fullness [Hiphil Infin. with prefixכ: “while, when”] הַפֹּשְׁעִים/the transgressing/rebelling ones [Qal Active Participle, plural], מֶלֶךְ/a king יַעֲמֹד/shall arise…

“And in the latter part of their kingdom, while the rebelling ones/transgressors are bringing to fullness their apostasy, a king shall arise…”

These three verses, 8:17, 19, 23, are where translators and commentators often go astray, imposing words and understanding not expressed in the Hebrew. In these and similar Hebrew prophetic texts, a common default presumption of translators has been that every “time of an end,” “Day of the LORD,” and “latter day/time” must refer to the end of OUR age. This is not true at all: there have been many “ends” of kingdoms and eras prophesied that have already come to pass. For example:

Jeremiah 46:2 Against Egypt. Concerning the army of Pharaoh Necho, King of Egypt, which was by the River Euphrates in Carchemish, which Nebuchadrezzar King of Babylon smote in the fourth year of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah. … 10 For this is the Day of the Lord GOD of hosts, a day of vengeance…

This historically-famous “Day of the LORD” battle took place in 610 B.C. Other fulfilled Day of the LORD prophecies include Joel 1:15 (but not Joel 2-3), and Ezekiel 7:19 and 13:5. The final “end”/Day of the LORD/last of the last days does not come until the end of the 7th Millennium, “when He [Christ] delivers the kingdom to God the Father…[having] put an end to all rule and all authority and power.” 1 Cor. 15:24

Daniel 8:23 defines the very era of the 2300-day abasement of Jerusalemʼs Temple: “in the latter part/time of their [the Greek] kingdom.” By 168 B.C., only the significantly-diminished Seleucid and Ptolemaic kingdoms remained out of Alexanderʼs once vast empire. Therefore, the “fierce king” and ha-poshim/“the rebelling ones” of verse 23 can only be Antiochus Epiphanes and the Jewish apostates, respectively. All of the verses from 8:23-28 prophesy about the qualities and acts of Antiochus: they do not prophesy about OUR times.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1576-part-2-conclusion/

 

There is nothing in Daniel that speaks of AE… chapter 11 gives us the prior kingdoms from 11:1-4, with 11:5 begins at the time the Jews are in Jerusalem and are under Roman rule. It is at the time time of the arrival of Christ. 
 

The 2300 evenings and mornings prophecy applies to Christ during the last week of the 70 weeks of years prophecy. 

[Charlie744]

22 minutes ago, luigi said:

Whatever some wish to interpret the visions Daniel was referring to in Daniel 8 other than those presented in the chapter; and whatever some  wish to interpret end times in Daniel chapters 8 and 12, to mean other than these end times; there are some of us here and throughout the world who recognize the visions Daniel was shown in chapters 7 through 12 to represent the current era that is spiraling downward. The angel Gabriel who informed Daniel in chapter 8:17 & 19 about the visions in chapter 8 in reference to these end times, also told Daniel that the visions shown him in chapters 10 through 12 were in relation to the end times. When Daniel then inquired as to the meaning of these visions, he was then informed that the visions were shut until these end times, at which time they would be open, and the data contained understood (Daniel 12:8-9). If individuals therefore do not wish to acknowledge events currently transpiring that match the visions shown in Daniel chapter 8; I then believe it's due to some ulterior motive other than wanting to understand the truth, and some individuals will therefore unfortunately be among those who will never understand the truth (Daniel 12:10).  

Daniel 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? 9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

Daniel 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

 

Very well, best wishes.