Death Penalty

[apothanein kerdos]

So ur saying that the church and the goverment r 2 different parties. When our Lord spoke to man; he was not only talking 2 man in church but man in the whole earth.

Well, we r not suggesting that they should not convict the man 4 the death crimes but we r saying that the death penalty is abit 2 strong. As in they can sentence him, but not to death.

Then you're disagreeing with a direct order from God. The first sentence in my post is scripture (hint: Look in Genesis 9)

This in a country that just executed it's 1000 inmate. Since LEGALIZED MURDER was re-instated. By killing others, wether by the hand of the so-called authorities. Or by the criminals that roam the Earth. We are just as bad and evil as the ones who kill first.

If a man or woman violate the image of God by killing a fellow human being, by order of the Bible we are to kill the murderer.

Scripture over rides Gov"t. My humble opinion.

When the two are in harmony with each other this doesn't matter.

The man is a non believer. He does or did not have the compassion. But we Christians r the ones Jesus was talking 2. We r to show the world love like Christ would or then we would only end up being hearers and not doers of the word.

We often overlook that Jesus demands justice. How ironic that we, as Christians, can abhor the death pentalty which is justice but have no problem believing in the idea of hell.

No offence but r u really born again. If u r then u would forgive ur brother everytime he sins.

Forgiveness means that you hold no hate towards another person for the wrongs they have committed against you or society. Likewise, it means you can have fellowship with that person. What it doesn't mean is they are free from justice. A father may love his son if he son brought shame to the family, but the son must still be disciplined for his actions, forgiven or not. Forgiveness does not mean you are free from the consequences of your actions.

And rehabilitation. If a convict can make a POSITIVE difference to society.

Justice and rehabilitation are often mutually exclusive. This man has made his contribution and will die eventually regardless of what the state of California decides. We end his life now for the crimes he committed now, or wait 20 years for the inevitable to occur anyway. God demands the life of any person that violates His image via murder...I'd rather follow God then my own sense of "justice" and "fairness".

And I beg to differ on execution being justice served. I believe that it is more for revenge than any other reason.

Then why did God command it?

My uncle has served time in prisons and now does prison outreach. The interesting fact that he notices is that those who have been sentence to life for murder still end up killing others in prison and are higher up on the "food chain". Those on death row, more often then not, "find God". You never hear of a murder on death row, or fights, or disturbances. They know their time is comming. Death row creates more Christians in the penal system (in my opinion) then anything else. Thus I fail to see the negative connocations. We think if we keep people alive it's "that much longer" for them to accept Christ. Is God not sovereign? Does He not have the foresight to know who will be His child and who won't be? If a person will accept Christ, they will accept Him. If they deny Him, they deny Him. It is not up to use to try and prolonge their time on earth.

[DaniJ87]

exactly. you are a better articulator than I

[Avidan]

Again, forgive him, and let him live. In Prison.

If America is a "Christian" nation, we must adhere to Christian principles.

Execution is from 1st Covenant.

[Arthur Durnan]

To be sure, I love abolitionists. They're so scrutable.

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[Ovedya]

Again, forgive him, and let him live. In Prison.

If America is a "Christian" nation, we must adhere to Christian principles.

Execution is from 1st Covenant.

So then, do you believe that the Lord Jesus was not part of the first covenant? Or maybe He intentionally broke the Mosaic law in order to establish a second covenant?

[Guest shiloh357]

I do not believe Williams knows YAHSHUA.

He is among the most feared inmates in San Quentin. Although restricted to death row, he weilds a big hammer.

My take is forgive him.

Scripture over rides Gov"t. My humble opinion.

So then, it's righteous to forgive a man who murdered four people? We should just tell him, "Okay, we all forgive you for taking the lives of four people and ruining the lives of his family and friends. Here's a few bucks to get you back on your feet. Have a great life."

What about justice?

Hi,

Did u read what i just posted 45 minutes b4 or did u just over look it.

I suggested that death penalty is 2 high, mayb sentensing a long period of time would do. And by the way if u dont feel sorry 4 this guy that he'll go 2 hell 4 his sins b4 repenting, then mayb u need a heart of compasion because if our Lord had compation, if u claim 2 b a believer and His follower, then may i ask, where is ur compasion?

Well to begin with, my response was to Avidan.

Secondly, no, I do not feel sorry for him. Why should I feel sorrow and compassion for a man who murdered four people in cold blood? Why should I feel sorry for a man who co-founded the strongest, most brutal, and most criminal organization that the county of Los Angeles has ever known? To me that's like asking if I feel sorrow or compassion for Hitler.

Hi,

No offence but r u really born again. If u r then u would forgive ur brother everytime he sins.

U know u seem to have forgotten that Christ died for us while we were still sinners. If Christ did not die for your sins, do you know that you would b just as guilty in Gods eyes as this man?????

I know you were not responding to me directly, but then this is an open forum, if you need to only post to a particular person pliz use pm, no offense. I still love u like my brother in Christ and am actually going right now to church, i am very glad to give my piece of mind on this topic. We r all one body in christ. We all need each other,and we should all have a teachable heart.

Correct me where am wrong.

1. Forgiveness is not the absence of consequence. The Bible teaches that there are consequences for sin. Nowhere does God promise to remove the consequences of our sin even though he forgives us. i.e., God does not promise prisoners that they will be set free, even if they get saved.

2. You mentioned Jesus dying for your sins.... That is good point, really. Jesus died for your sins. You were under the sentence of death, according to God's law. Now, Jesus did not remove the death sentence, He bore the death Himself. SOMEONE was going to die for your sins. Death was enevitable, because God's justice had to be satisfied. So someone was going to die. It should have been you. You deserved to die for your sins, and God would have been within His Rights to treat you with utter contempt, and destroy you. Instead, God showed you His mercy by sending His Son to die in your place. Instead God, in His mercy took all of His hatred, and contempt for sin, and aimed it squarely at Jesus. He layed all of His Judgement upon Jesus, and Jesus bore the death you deserved. So not even God is opposed to the death penalty, but used it Himself.

[traveller]

Amen Shiloh! Excellent post!

Forgiveness is not the absence of consequence

[heavenlyfavoured]

I realize that you're pretty new here, sis, and you'll get used to how these conversations flow. Although this is an open forum and discussions are for everyone to read, when you use the quote function it is usually for the purpose of addressing the specific comments of the person that you are quoting. Although your original comment added to the discussion, my response to Avidan needn't have taken your comment into consideration. In other words, I didn't ignore your comment, I just didn't respond to it.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

hi,

am back and have seen how far this topic has gone.

Is my being new here change the fact that i might b making sence?

Edited December 2, 2005 by heavenlyfavoured

[heavenlyfavoured]

Hi,

So i get the point, everyone is 4 the fact that he should still b sentenced 2 death.

Then if he still should b sentenced 2 death, then we should all b sentenced 2 death with him "for all have fallen short of his Glory".

[heavenlyfavoured]

I do not believe Williams knows YAHSHUA.

He is among the most feared inmates in San Quentin. Although restricted to death row, he weilds a big hammer.

My take is forgive him.

Scripture over rides Gov"t. My humble opinion.

So then, it's righteous to forgive a man who murdered four people? We should just tell him, "Okay, we all forgive you for taking the lives of four people and ruining the lives of his family and friends. Here's a few bucks to get you back on your feet. Have a great life."

What about justice?

Hi,

Did u read what i just posted 45 minutes b4 or did u just over look it.

I suggested that death penalty is 2 high, mayb sentensing a long period of time would do. And by the way if u dont feel sorry 4 this guy that he'll go 2 hell 4 his sins b4 repenting, then mayb u need a heart of compasion because if our Lord had compation, if u claim 2 b a believer and His follower, then may i ask, where is ur compasion?

Well to begin with, my response was to Avidan.

Secondly, no, I do not feel sorry for him. Why should I feel sorrow and compassion for a man who murdered four people in cold blood? Why should I feel sorry for a man who co-founded the strongest, most brutal, and most criminal organization that the county of Los Angeles has ever known? To me that's like asking if I feel sorrow or compassion for Hitler.

Hi,

No offence but r u really born again. If u r then u would forgive ur brother everytime he sins.

U know u seem to have forgotten that Christ died for us while we were still sinners. If Christ did not die for your sins, do you know that you would b just as guilty in Gods eyes as this man?????

I know you were not responding to me directly, but then this is an open forum, if you need to only post to a particular person pliz use pm, no offense. I still love u like my brother in Christ and am actually going right now to church, i am very glad to give my piece of mind on this topic. We r all one body in christ. We all need each other,and we should all have a teachable heart.

Correct me where am wrong.

1. Forgiveness is not the absence of consequence. The Bible teaches that there are consequences for sin. Nowhere does God promise to remove the consequences of our sin even though he forgives us. i.e., God does not promise prisoners that they will be set free, even if they get saved.

2. You mentioned Jesus dying for your sins.... That is good point, really. Jesus died for your sins. You were under the sentence of death, according to God's law. Now, Jesus did not remove the death sentence, He bore the death Himself. SOMEONE was going to die for your sins. Death was enevitable, because God's justice had to be satisfied. So someone was going to die. It should have been you. You deserved to die for your sins, and God would have been within His Rights to treat you with utter contempt, and destroy you. Instead, God showed you His mercy by sending His Son to die in your place. Instead God, in His mercy took all of His hatred, and contempt for sin, and aimed it squarely at Jesus. He layed all of His Judgement upon Jesus, and Jesus bore the death you deserved. So not even God is opposed to the death penalty, but used it Himself.

Hi,

So Jesus who died 4 ur sins and mine, must have also died 4 his sins 2 OR ?