New church direction

[penfold]

Hi all

I just wanted to share a prophecy given and upheld in church.

"We are coming to the end of the humanist culture- and are entering the time of neo paganism.

As a church body we must prepare for this by moving away from the straight talking and doing signs and wonders in and outside of our community.

In order to do this the church as a whole must seek Gods presence in a new way- just as Moses requested in exodus and the Lord protected his eyes.

we are to rest there and the Lord will use the time to confirm his special mission for each of us."

What do you all perceive the Lord is doing here?

[apothanein kerdos]

Hi all

I just wanted to share a prophecy given and upheld in church.

"We are coming to the end of the humanist culture- and are entering the time of neo paganism.

As a church body we must prepare for this by moving away from the straight talking and doing signs and wonders in and outside of our community.

In order to do this the church as a whole must seek Gods presence in a new way- just as Moses requested in exodus and the Lord protected his eyes.

we are to rest there and the Lord will use the time to confirm his special mission for each of us."

What do you all perceive the Lord is doing here?

For once I see a modern day prophecy and agree with it...

I would add though that it will be a paganism that allows for differing beliefs. In other words, postmodernism mixed with paganism and science....

[Ovedya]

I disagree:

"We are coming to the end of the humanist culture- and are entering the time of neo paganism.

Paganism has always been around. The idea that we are "entering the time of neo-paganism" has to be false. It may be that society is more readily accepting pagan ideals in the absence of stalwart Biblical teaching, and the increased curiosity and pursuit of the spiritual. I don't see, however that humanism is slowly giving away to "neo-paganism" however. In fact, secular humanism is responsible for the many attacks upon traditional Christian values and ideals, and that appears to be increasing in intensity.

As a church body we must prepare for this by moving away from the straight talking and doing signs and wonders in and outside of our community.

I couldn't disagree any more vehemently with this statement. Spiritual gifts - spiritual expression - must be tempered with the healthy teachings of the church, otherwise it's basically a train running without a track - there's no direction and purpose. Paul wrote that we should seek the spiritual gifts. However, he also encouraged that we especially seek to prophesy, which means to represent Christ and to speak for Him. In 1 Cor. 14 there is a proper order for all things, and a reason for that order.

The main problem in the church today is not that it is not "spiritual enough" it is that it is too poor! It is too spiritually poor. Do you realize that a great number of self-professed Christians today do not believe in hell? Do you realize that Christians are increasingly beginning to doubt many of the foundational principals of the church in the apostles' teachings? The church is crumbling from the foundations upward, and we're encouraging one another to seek after signs and wonders? The biggest sign and wonder is the apostasy in the church!

In order to do this the church as a whole must seek Gods presence in a new way- just as Moses requested in exodus and the Lord protected his eyes.

That's not a new way, that's an old way! If Christians were seeking the Lord's presence at all that would be something new. God's presence isn't multifaceted - either you have His presence or you don't, either you are one with Him or you are not, either you are under the shining of His glory or you are not; and either you are under His divine administration or you are not. Christians want so much of God for spirituality, but they don't want Him. They can take Him when He is beneficial for certain things, but they don't want His shining. They want God to be there in the sanctuary on Sunday morning but they don't want Him in their living room Sunday afternoon!

If Christians were seriously seeking recovery for the church, if they were seriously seeking revival; if they seriously wanted the gospel to be preached to the whole inhabited earth then they wouldn;t b seeking something new - they would just be seeking Him period. Problem is, many Christians aren't seeking the Lord at all, they are seeking superficial things.

...we are to rest there and the Lord will use the time to confirm his special mission for each of us."

There's no special mission. There's always only been one mission. That is found in the Commission of the Lord to the disciples - Go forth.

[apothanein kerdos]

I should have read it more carefully before agreeing

I will say though, there is an actual move towards direct paganism. It is the fastest growing religion in the world and most of its converts come from athiestic backgrounds (humanistic).

As for everything else, what Ovedya said.

[Ovedya]

I think you're right about that, apoth. Paganism seems to have always sort of beeni nt eh "background" historically, but today it's much more apparent.

[other one]

Hi all

I just wanted to share a prophecy given and upheld in church.

"We are coming to the end of the humanist culture- and are entering the time of neo paganism.

As a church body we must prepare for this by moving away from the straight talking and doing signs and wonders in and outside of our community.

In order to do this the church as a whole must seek Gods presence in a new way- just as Moses requested in exodus and the Lord protected his eyes.

we are to rest there and the Lord will use the time to confirm his special mission for each of us."

What do you all perceive the Lord is doing here?

If you want a straight truthful answer it is here:

7And it was given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them; and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him. 8

NASB

[nebula]

I think you're right about that, apoth. Paganism seems to have always sort of beeni nt eh "background" historically, but today it's much more apparent.

If we are talking about Western culture - yes.

But one thing I have to back up the OP on. Mind you, I'm not denying the need for spiritual maturity in the body of Christ and all -

But do you honestly believe you can go head-to-head against spiritualism without flowing in the gifts?

If a witch puts a curse on you, how will you combat it?

Or how will you show someone immersed in spiritism that God is real compared to what they practice?

I have friends from high school who have told me about what meditation does for them.

What would you give them in return?

You know?

I believe in healthy balances - but please don't discard the one for t he other. You know?

[Ovedya]

I think you're right about that, apoth. Paganism seems to have always sort of beeni nt eh "background" historically, but today it's much more apparent.

If we are talking about Western culture - yes.

But one thing I have to back up the OP on. Mind you, I'm not denying the need for spiritual maturity in the body of Christ and all -

But do you honestly believe you can go head-to-head against spiritualism without flowing in the gifts?

If a witch puts a curse on you, how will you combat it?

Or how will you show someone immersed in spiritism that God is real compared to what they practice?

I have friends from high school who have told me about what meditation does for them.

What would you give them in return?

You know?

I believe in healthy balances - but please don't discard the one for t he other. You know?

I agree. I don't advocate either an extraordinary emphasis on the gifts or and undue emphasis on the letter as it were. Using the same analogy from the earlier post, if the gifts are the spiritual engine, then the tracks are the Word of God, the letter, the healthy teachings. Without the tracks the train gets derailed, and without the engine the train cannot move forward. Problems in the church with regard to evangelism usually stem from an unhealthy leaning toward one or the other.

[penfold]

I suppose it might help if you had some background

The church I go to has a superb teaching ethos- I have learnt more about the Bible and being a christian in the past 4 years than at any other time in my life. Some people have come to know the LORd in the time I have been going- largely through friendships and outreach events ( about 200 people in 4 years)

There are bits of prayer for healing, the odd speaking in tongues- sharing words of knowledge but generally we want to see more of a balance in the spiritual gifts- the british reserve doesnt help in this!

I think the prophecy is to prepare the Church in our area for the influx of neo pagan thought that is coming in thick and fast. People are recognising the spritual side of life and are being bombared with messages that all religions are the same and to get into the real thing you need to focus on witches/ old magic/ charms.

There is no point arguing the finner points of Noah and the flood with people who are into non- fact based belief.

We need to get back into the mind set of the early church in Acts and accompany our message with signs and wonders- give the beggar what he really needs (like Peter and John).

I must say that I have found all your posts really helpful. I am guessing that some of you have been to churches where it is all "froth and bubble" and no substance and equally ones where there is all very dead but sound teaching.

I dont think I have been anywhere where the gifts are actually being used on people out side of a church though.

any way we have all been asked to prayerfully consider... so I will pass on your thoughts too.

Thanks

[Pilgrim7]

NeoPagan?

Christmas -- Yearly Pagan Festival originated in Babylon.

Easter -- Yearly Pagan Festival originated in Babylon.

Sunday Worship -- Weekly Pagan day of worship originated in Babylon.

Eternal Torture -- Pagan teaching originated in Babylon.

Immortal Soul -- Pagan teaching originated in Babylon.

Whats to worry about?

God Bless,

Dennis