Satan

[angels4u]

Zentheist:

Here is something you quated in one of your other posts:

3:Okay, I don't call myself a born again Christian, I believe in John 3:16, and I'm night quite sure if we do go to heaven when we die? see John 13

Instead of wanting to dwell on this Satan stuff why not try to find out first if you go to heaven when you die and why?

[angels4u]

No, I am not born again, because I still sin, and the bible says that those who are born of God do not sin. It also says that Jesus went to be with his father up in the sky somewhere, therefore, No Jesus does not live INSIDE of me. It seems to be easier for some to hold on to superstitious beliefs rather than spend the time studying facts

.

Would you like to know God and do you know how to get a hold of Him?

[bgoalie35]

I don't think you are going to reach Tubal by ignoring his post and calling it garbage, nor do I think the casual observer will be persuaded that Christianity is the answer from your response. He addresses a real issue that should be addressed inside an "Apologetics" forum. There are many issues that could lead to doubt for believers, or outright rejection for unbelievers. Instead of dismissing what the unbelievers are saying with circular arguments and name calling, why don't we try to understand where they are coming from and try to refute what they are saying? That is apologetics isn't it? Defending the faith? I don't think we give a very convincing defense of his criticism of Revelation by saying scripture is from God cause it says so and we have to believe it cause its from God.

I'm not trying to be rude here, I just see this all too often in an "Apologetics" forum where atheists raise a question and people go on the defensive or attack without listening to the question. Is there no room in our faith to consider what they say and give a response to their questions?

Tubal Cain: I can see where you get the ideas of your last post, but I think you are mis-interpreting the Bible. People who are born again sin just like everyone else. But having God in your life changes your life as a whole. Hopefully, over time, you begin to turn away from sin and turn towards God. Even for the best of Christians, it is a journey that is never complete. I would also say you cannot object to Jesus being in two places at one time if he is a supernatural being. If he can rise from the dead, how hard is it to be in two places (or more) at once? You raise an excellent argument about Revelation, and I would like to research it further.

[bgoalie35]

Tubal Cain: Would you agree that there is room to believe in Christianity or not believe? In other words, God is not obvious to the point that you could not possibly believe in anything else, but you also cannot disprove the existence of God. Keeping that in mind, here is an interesting short with a Christian perspective on the recurrence of the zodiac throughout religions around the world. You can choose to accept or reject what the author is trying to say. I think on this issue and many others like it, there is room to believe the Christian perspective or the atheist one. It just comes down to faith. I'm sorry if the answer is not as concrete as you may like, but this is all I have for now. Feedback is welcome:

Zodiac Signs and Bible Truth

The word zodiac comes from the Greek zodiakos meaning a circle. It is often assumed that the connection is with animals (living creatures, from the Greek zoe "to live" and the English zoo. However, the root meaning of zodiakos has nothing to do with living creatures, but instead comes from the primitive root zoad, meaning a path or way or going by steps. In this connection, it is used to denote the way along which the sun appears to move through the stars in the course of the 12 months. This course is repeated every year as the apparent position of the sun returns to almost the exact spot that it occupied on the same date a year before. So the path through the sky along which the sun travels (or appears to travel) is called the zodiac and is divided into 12 segments.

Each of these segments is marked by a group of stars which is easily recognized. These 12 groups of stars (constellations) have names that are familiar to most people and are known as the "signs" of the zodiac. Each of the 12 signs pictorially represents a prophetic event in relation to the unfolding story of salvation in the history of the world. Please keep in mind that the star groups (constellations) do not necessarily look like the objects for which they are named, but each is associated with the picture of the object.

The fact that the signs of the zodiac bear little resemblance the pictures associated with them should be of great interest to observers of the night-time sky. Every ancient culture with any knowledge or tradition concerning the stars recognizes the same 12 star groups and the same names or meanings of names. Examine the star knowledge of whatever ancients you choose (Babylonia, China, India, Persia, Egypt, Greece, Rome, Central America.....) and everywhere the same constellations are identified and associated with the identical or similar meanings and names.

The only explanation for this fact is that there was one original Source who identified the constellations with their meanings before the dispersion of the peoples of the earth. God is that Source.

The 12 signs as originally given by God were a prophetic outline of the purpose of God in the history of salvation. They are understood, however, only if they are seen in their proper order. Since they form a circle, the problem is in knowing where to begin and finish. Astrologers begin with Aries, but this does not correspond with Biblical revelation. A comparison of the prophecies in the heavens with the prophecies in the Bible clearly shows that the starting point is the divine promise concerning the seed of the woman (Genesis 3:15), and the ending point clearly coincides with the climax of Scripture in the triumph of the Lion of the tribe of Judah (Jesus Christ) - (Revelation 5:5).

The promise of the Seed in the first book of the Bible (Genesis) is seen in the constellation Virgo (the woman). The promise of the triumphant Lion, seen in the last book of the Bible (Revelation), is displayed in Leo. So the outline begins with Virgo and ends with Leo. Confirmation of this is found in one of the very old zodiacs dating back to 2000 B.C. or before. It is called the zodiac of Dendereh and was found on the ceiling of the portico of the temple of Esneh in Egypt. In this zodiac there is placed between the signs of Virgo and Leo a picture of the Sphinx. The Sphinx (with the head of a woman and the tail of a lion) confirms the starting and finishing points for the zodiac. Many scholars think that this was in fact the main purpose of the Sphinx and thus solves its "riddle."

Note: For more information concerning the Biblical truths of the Zodiac, see the article "Horoscope Signs and the Bible."

Material in this article from Kenneth Fleming's God's Voice in the Stars.

[EricH]

No, I am not born again, because I still sin, and the bible says that those who are born of God do not sin. It also says that Jesus went to be with his father up in the sky somewhere, therefore, No Jesus does not live INSIDE of me. It seems to be easier for some to hold on to superstitious beliefs rather than spend the time studying facts.

Tubal..

I believe the verse you are referring to is:

No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 John 3:9 NASB

You should not that the tense of the verb "practices sin" in the greek speaks of ongoing habitual sin. It does not say that

a person who is saved will never sin

[bgoalie35]

Thank you EricH for explaining it in a much more educated and eloquent manner than I could. I was trying to say the same thing, but I came up short.

[Rania]

Ezekiel 28:13-18

I just realized this passage speaks not only of how Satan fell, but also speaks of his ultimate demise. Am I understanding that correctly or missing something?

Tap

Can someone answer this for me?

[Guest LDStudent]

Lucifer/Satan was a son of God.

The Bible refers to angels as "sons of God" in several instances. Example:

That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Genesis 6:2

Angels are sons of God in the same way as those daughters mentioned in the verse were the offspring of men.

Lucifier was a child of God, but chose to disassociate himself from the Heavenly family.

[apothanein kerdos]

Lucifer/Satan was a son of God.

The Bible refers to angels as "sons of God" in several instances. Example:

That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Genesis 6:2

Angels are sons of God in the same way as those daughters mentioned in the verse were the offspring of men.

Lucifier was a child of God, but chose to disassociate himself from the Heavenly family.

Oh brother

Genesis 6:2 is not in reference to angels. A quick look to Matthew 22:30 shows that angels are incapable of sex and possibly without gender. If they are incapable of sex, then how in the world did they cohabitate with the daughters of men? The most logical explanation is that these were powerful rulers and warriors who were probably indwelt by fallen angels (we know from Ezekiel 28:11-19 and Daniel 10:13 that this can occur). Satan was not God's son, he did not fight with Jesus, there is nothing within scripture to indicate this and in fact, the belief contradicts scripture (as Jesus being the ONLY Son of God, John 3:16).

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

To which of the angels has God said, "Today you are my Son, This day have I betton thee"?

Heb

Edited January 12, 2006 by Dr. Luke