Hot, Cold or Lukewarm?

[nebula]

I can't believe this thread has jumped up to 18 pages filled with everyone aquibbling at each other!

OK, my thoughts (appologies if I repeat what others said - I gave up reading the thread at page 10):

1) The concern over the translation of what "cold" means is significant. For, if "cold" means you are an enemy of the Cross, then you have to believe Jesus is saying, "I would rather you be a Satanist, Atheist, murderer, adulterer, etc. than to be a hypocritical Christian." Is that the heart of God? Really?

2) The Church of Laodicea was not a denomination. It was the whole group of believers who lived in the city of Laodicea. The denominalationism we have today was not how the early church functioned.

3) In reading Rev. 2-3, we see Jesus speaking to each of the churches as a corporate body. However, in almost all of His words to the churches, He notes, "Yet there are those among you..." which means that there were individuals within the church who were not guilty of the sin(s) He was rebuking the church for. Likewise, in all of the words to each church, He says, "To him who overcomes..." thus speaking to individuals.

When I read the words the Lord gave to each church, I see a warning to the corporate Church as a whole, I see a warning to individual congregations, and I see a warning to individual believers. For if you look at the Christians in America, as a whole you can see Laodicea all over, while if you look at the Christians in nations like China and Sudan, you can see the church of Smyrna. However, if you observe individual congregations, you can see traits that are best described by the warning and encouragement to other chruches. (Of course, the denominations that have compromised with homosexuality and such could be described as those two churches who have followed the way of the Nicolaitans and the one that "have tolerated that woman Jezebel.") Finally, I look at my wone life, and I ask myself - have I forsaken my first love? Have I compromised with the world? Am I resting in my physical riches rather than spending myself the Gospel?

4) What is "lukewarm"?

I think the best way to describe this can be seen in this quote by Brennan Manning:

"The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today is Christians, who acknowledge Jesus with their lips, then walk out the door, and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.

[Gerioke]

I have never been to Laodacia to confirm your cold=refreshing theory, so I have reached a similar conclusion as yours as to what luke warm is all about by appealing to my own understanding of who God is.

How far does the hot water have to travel to get to Laodacia. Someone said it comes from another city, so how hot can it be by the time it reaches Laodacia?

What it boils down to for me is, your understanding versus my understanding. If we come to the same conclusion, what's the problem?

[Smalcald]

But Nebula, why does cold mean evil? People who do not know Christ are not evil; He is simply blank to them, cold so to speak. It is a works based idea to think that those who do not know Christ are evil and we somehow are less evil. We do not deserve salvation anymore than anybody else does; they are not evil because they do not know the Lord. But a lukewarm person thinks they know the Lord, but does not and thus denies themselves repentance, and the Lord tells them that unless they repent they will not wear the white garments and He will vomit them out of His mouth.

Christ always preferred the sinner who recognized the need for repentance to the prideful false believers who did not recognize their need for repentance.

So it would make sense that He would tell this church that at least if you were cold it would be preferable you would have a chance; also I think He was making a point. That indeed I prefer those who don

[Catsmeow]

What it boils down to for me is, your understanding verses my understanding.

Boils? (pun maybe)

[nebula]

I have never been to Laodacia to confirm your cold=refreshing theory, so I have reached a similar conclusion as yours as to what luke warm is all about by appealing to my own understanding of who God is.

How far does the hot water have to travel to get to Laodacia. Someone said it comes from another city, so how hot can it be by the time it reaches Laodacia?

What it boils down to for me is, your understanding verses my understanding. If we come to the same conclusion, what's the problem?

I watched part of a "Day of Discovery" 7-part series in which they visited the 7 cities mentioned in Rev. 2-3 and discussed the words Jesus gave to the churches there. One of the ones I saw was on Laodicea. The commentators actually stuck their hands in the water flowing through waht was the city, and they were suprised to find that the water was indeed lukewarm in temperature.

They had shown how the water to Laodacia actually travels from two sources - one from the mountains and one from another city where there are the hot springs. The waters join together at or before Laodicea.

OK - found something:

Positioned in the Lycus Valley a few miles from the hot calcium waters of modern Pammukale, the tell affords a view to the north and east of the hot waters that pour out of the earth, and the distant snow capped mountains to the south. Drawing the hot water from a distance of more than four miles away, the water would arrive to the city lukewarm, and need to be reheated. Many have noted the irony of Rev. 3:15.

http://www.ctsp.co.il/LBS%20pages/LBS_laodicea.htm

If you do a Google search on Laodicea, you can find more info.

Edited January 16, 2006 by nebula

[Catsmeow]

Cool. Kinda neat bit of trivia.

I can't figure why folks are arguing over nothing here....I think it's neat trivia to learn about the water system in that geographic location....

So the Church in Laodicea can be taken literally and figuratively. Neat...

[Christ's Free Servant]

I believe the subject has been covered. I think there was far too much discussion as to the interpretation of "hot" and "cold" and I fear the intended purpose of the thread was missed. I believe it has been stated numerous times, so I am not going to repeat it. I will not delete it, so you are free to reread any of it that you choose. But, I see no reason to keep it going. I hope everyone who has read this will take time alone with God to examine his or her own relationship with the Lord and that he or she will be able to answer before God as to whether he or she is "lukewarm." If you fall into that category, then I urge you to repent and turn back to full obedience to God, because the time is SHORT! This has certainly caused me to reexamine my relationship with the Lord. I hope the same for all of you. God bless you all!