The Trinity?

[Brother Chad]

I would like to start my membership in this forum by seeing what the trinitarians here believe. It has been my observation that many have different ideas as to this doctrine. Let us try to only deal with the scriptures in this discussion and see what holds weight. I believe the "Oneness" of God is evident throughout the Bible and I believe I can show where if given the right questions. So let's see where this goes shall we?

[MK202002]

Ok, I'll try. He is one, not three. I think a lot of this doctrine of the trinity are things we don't really know we think.

Like imagine this: When we get to heaven, will we see God? Yes

When we get to heaven, will we see Jesus? Yes.

When we get to heaven, will we see the Holy Spirit? Ummm...... So will we see 3 Gods or 1? There is only one God, so we will see one.

When I pray, I used to say "Dear God, or dear Jesus" Sometimes I would ask Jesus to speak to God for me....And they are the same God!! It bordered on idolitry. So there is no longer seperatin in my mind to who I am praying to. I no longer think of them as 3 being with the same agenda, He is the same God.

The "picture" of the trinity taken out of Mathew chapter 3 is one God being everywhere at once.

We've all learned to say, "yes, three in one." And some very helpful and wonderful people have helped explain that concept to me. But in all the explinations, the three items they used as examples had different characteristics from each other. God does not.

Edited January 16, 2006 by MK202002

[angels4u]

I would like to start my membership in this forum by seeing what the trinitarians here believe. It has been my observation that many have different ideas as to this doctrine. Let us try to only deal with the scriptures in this discussion and see what holds weight. I believe the "Oneness" of God is evident throughout the Bible and I believe I can show where if given the right questions. So let's see where this goes shall we?

3 persons in One:

Father<Son and Holy Spirit and these are One.

[Guest NewPilgrim]

God is indeed one God. In Hebrew, there are two expressions for oneness, Yachid and Echad

(I forget which is which) One means "one unique and individual" the other is "one in unity"

God describes himself as "one in unity" which, in his triune nature is the correct term to use. If he was not triune, then the other expression would be used.

Moving onto to "defense" of the trinitarian standpoint:

There are so many places in scripture to go with this, so I guess the beginning is as good as any:

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:

I'm sure in your previous discussions on trinity you've run into this verse and probably many others that will come up, but I'll assume for the sake of discussion that you haven't

God refers to himself as "us". This has been written off by some protagonists as a "royal 'we'" but there is no such concept in the original hebrew and I believe the concept did not exist anywhere at the time of writing. Indeed when the original hebrew is translated to its very root, the expression for God "elohim" is translated "the powers". Note that this is also a plural in nature as aversed to "the power" or "the great power"

secondly, who is God addressing? He speaks, but there is no mention of angels around him as he speaks and indeed, if he WAS addressing angels, then by the what he says, we would be as angels and we are not as angels.

The statement is a conversation between God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, this is further held out by the fact that we have the physical presence of Yeshua, a spiritual nature as that of the Holy Spirit, and a representation of the characteristics of God the Father, his abilty to emote (love, anger, compassion, jealousy etc...)

Theres still plenty more to go at, but I feel thats enough to discuss for the moment. When we're ready to move to the next point, I wouldnt mind exploring the person of "Dabar Yahweh" ("The Word of God") particularly in reference to Genesis 15:1-3

Edited January 16, 2006 by NewPilgrim

[Leonard]

Three words: The Athanasian Creed.

[MK202002]

Three words: The Athanasian Creed.

what's that? is that with the niceane council ?

[IslandRose]

Three words: The Athanasian Creed.

Athanasian Creed

1. Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith;

2. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.

3. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;

4. Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance.

5. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit.

6. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty coeternal.

7. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit.

8. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated.

9. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible.

10. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal.

11. And yet they are not three eternals but one eternal.

12. As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensible, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible.

13. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty.

14. And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty.

15. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God;

16. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.

17. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord;

18. And yet they are not three Lords but one Lord.

19. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;

20. So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say; There are three Gods or three Lords.

21. The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten.

22. The Son is of the Father alone; not made nor created, but begotten.

23. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.

24. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits.

25. And in this Trinity none is afore or after another; none is greater or less than another.

26. But the whole three persons are coeternal, and coequal.

27. So that in all things, as aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.

28. He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.

29. Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.

30. For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man.

31. God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of substance of His mother, born in the world.

32. Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting.

33. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood.

34. Who, although He is God and man, yet He is not two, but one Christ.

35. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of that manhood into God.

36. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person.

37. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ;

38. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead;

39. He ascended into heaven, He sits on the right hand of the Father, God, Almighty;

40. From thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

41. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies;

42. and shall give account of their own works.

43. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting and they that have done evil into everlasting fire. 44. This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully he cannot be saved.

[Joe@actsii]

Three words: The Athanasian Creed.

Athanasian Creed

1. Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith;

2. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.

3. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;

4. Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance.

5. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit.

6. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty coeternal.

7. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit.

8. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated.

9. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible.

10. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal.

11. And yet they are not three eternals but one eternal.

12. As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensible, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible.

13. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty.

14. And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty.

15. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God;

16. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.

17. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord;

18. And yet they are not three Lords but one Lord.

19. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;

20. So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say; There are three Gods or three Lords.

21. The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten.

22. The Son is of the Father alone; not made nor created, but begotten.

23. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.

24. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits.

25. And in this Trinity none is afore or after another; none is greater or less than another.

26. But the whole three persons are coeternal, and coequal.

27. So that in all things, as aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.

28. He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.

29. Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.

30. For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man.

31. God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of substance of His mother, born in the world.

32. Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting.

33. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood.

34. Who, although He is God and man, yet He is not two, but one Christ.

35. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of that manhood into God.

36. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person.

37. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ;

38. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead;

39. He ascended into heaven, He sits on the right hand of the Father, God, Almighty;

40. From thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

41. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies;

42. and shall give account of their own works.

43. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting and they that have done evil into everlasting fire. 44. This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully he cannot be saved.

Please tell me you didn't do that from memory.

[IslandRose]

Three words: The Athanasian Creed.

Athanasian Creed

1. Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith;

2. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.

3. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;

4. Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance.

5. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit.

6. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty coeternal.

7. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit.

8. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated.

9. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible.

10. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal.

11. And yet they are not three eternals but one eternal.

12. As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensible, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible.

13. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty.

14. And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty.

15. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God;

16. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.

17. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord;

18. And yet they are not three Lords but one Lord.

19. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;

20. So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say; There are three Gods or three Lords.

21. The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten.

22. The Son is of the Father alone; not made nor created, but begotten.

23. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.

24. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits.

25. And in this Trinity none is afore or after another; none is greater or less than another.

26. But the whole three persons are coeternal, and coequal.

27. So that in all things, as aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.

28. He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.

29. Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.

30. For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man.

31. God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of substance of His mother, born in the world.

32. Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting.

33. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood.

34. Who, although He is God and man, yet He is not two, but one Christ.

35. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of that manhood into God.

36. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person.

37. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ;

38. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead;

39. He ascended into heaven, He sits on the right hand of the Father, God, Almighty;

40. From thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

41. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies;

42. and shall give account of their own works.

43. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting and they that have done evil into everlasting fire. 44. This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully he cannot be saved.

Please tell me you didn't do that from memory.

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[Trinity]

Hehehehehe My Favorit subject

I believe in the Oneness of God in three Persons. I would like to show you how this works using the Old Testament Verse Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one Lord."

In Hebrew there are two words for the word one:

Echad meaning united group

Example:

Genesis 2:24

For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.

See how man and women do not litterally mean Join into one being, it says one Unite which is what Echad means, One Unite.

Yachiyd means alone and single.

Deuteronomy 6:4 states, "The LORD our God is One United-(Echad) Lord."