Still spinning

[David from New Bern]

Apothanein Kerdos:

Hmmmmm. You may have a little bit of an argument with we Pentecostals on one ground, and with the Eastern Christians on other grounds! How do you feel about the Eastern doctrine of theosis?

Respectfully, but firmly we do not become gods, we are transformed into the image of Christ but in no way equal...For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Romans 8:29 NKJV

[Copper Scroll]

Why can't I tell the difference between you and a con out in public?

This is a big issue for me too. The fact that such a question can be posed reasonably shows how frightening an influence cultural and personal experiences have over whether someone will be "saved"--become Christian. If neither a genius nor an idiot can reasonably tell the difference between a Christian trying to push Christianity (spread the gospel) and an infomercial host trying to push a pyramid scheme, then I wonder how God expects us to figure out who is right and who is wrong.

God acknowledges how powerful cultural influences are. God spends a lot of time in the OT ordering Israel to slaughter pagans because of it. And God acknowledges how powerful personal influences are. God spends a lot of time in the NT warning against false teachers because of it. With all these distractions and no objective way of differentiating Christians, how are expected to figure it out?

An obvious answer is that the Bible says so. But there are also lots of books, some as ancient as the Bible. How are we (particularly those of us from non-Western backgrounds) supposed to know that the Bible is somehow special? There are many interpretations of it. How are we supposed to know which ones are right? How are we supposed to know which interpretation methods arrive at God's Truth?

[nebula]

I don't hear of anyone healing the sick, raising the dead, walking on water, turning water into wine, yet your book says if you believe you will be doing these things. So I wonder what is the problem. Do you really not believe? Or did I read the wrong book?

Hoo-boy!

It would take longer to explain than I have time to write, but to understand the question, you have to now read up on the history of the Church (Christianity) since the first century up to now.

In the second and third centuris, reliance on the Holy Spirit got replaced with reliance on proof texts and dogma and church authority and . . . .

And then there is the fact that church leadership switched from the Jews (who were raised on the Torah) to the Gentiles (who were raised on the Hellenistic mindset), and that completely changed perspectives on how the Bible was understood.

But where we are now. Remember the passages were Jesus couldn't heal or perform miracles in certain towns and cities because of the unbelief of the town or city? Well, we have a society and culture full of unbelief - it doesn't even believe in the spiritual realm, and those that do are considered kooks.

But there are those of us who have found faith again in the spiritual realm and the performing of miracles. However, due to the unbelief of society, it is hard to break through. Yet when doing missionary work in other countries where there is a belief in the spiritual realm, healings and miracles are found to occur all over the place.

Does that make sense?

[Bolts]

I asked a question in the seekers area I got no answer just a closed forum with the statement "If you

[David from New Bern]

I asked a question in the seekers area I got no answer just a closed forum with the statement "If you

[Triple Crown]

Hi Charlie,

I am more what you would call a "Layman's Christian". Though I believe that the Bible is the infallible Word of God, delivered through the prophets, and is the only source of all life, inspiration, and instruction for "believers", I think quoting scriptures to a non-believer is pointless in debate.

We cannot force people to believe them, or understand the verses, we can only present the facts (as we know them) and pray that you will find your own way. Either you are playing a game and fully entertained, or truly seeking out God in your own way (only you know). Interestingly enough you seem willing to be "talked into it", yet I'm sure you will find no solid believer here who you could talk OUT of it.

Greater minds than yours have laid their lives down for Christianity and unless you consider all humans "stupider than you", you might consider why that was? The apostles of Jesus met HORRIFIC deaths, refusing to deny their faith in him. We only read their accounts, they SAW and experienced Him (Christ) in person. If it was all a lie or some "church building" stunt I'm sure you'd have to agree that mans' self-preservation instinct would have him screaming out "OKAY !!!, I admit it was all a lie!!!!" right before they wrapped him in oil cloth and lit him on fire (alive), stoned then crucified him upside down, whipped him fleshless and dragged him behind horses, etc...

So if you require "proof", you won't find it I'm afraid. God does not work that way, He has no need to. God didn't send Christ here to make us "Christians". He sent Him so that we would have the one uniting factor we needed to find our way back to Him when we are done in this life. Not everything on this Earth has an answer, regardless of your incredible intellect, if you believe the contrary I am sad for you.

We KNOW where we are going when we're done here, do you ???

It's easy for one to say while they are alive "I don't believe in Heaven or Hell"

But I ask........what if you're wrong?

Eternity is a looooooooong time to be in Hell.

Much Love to you brother,

May you find what you seek,

In His service

TC

[Leonard]

Where's Charlie, by the way? Hope he didn't 'chicken out' when we began answering his questions.........

[David from New Bern]

Mike2 thanks for the simplicity and the spirit of compassion. While preciseness is important and often requires phrasing and rephrasing to find to find it. We need to be aware of seekers and silent observers.

[Guest CharlieC]

Charlie, my boy! You are funny! But we can leave the issue of of "95% comprehension" of the Bible aside for now.

Your first post only asked if the Bible was the correct book to get information about Jesus. I replied that it was indeed. So I think I answered that question. I just couldn't figure out why that would be your question......

But, I see by another post here, that you are also asking "Why don't those who call themselves Christians do what Jesus said to do or do as he did?"

And it causes you considerable consternation that "I don't hear of anyone healing the sick, raising the dead, walking on water, turning water into wine, yet your book says if you believe you will be doing these things. So I wonder what is the problem. Do you really not believe? Or did I read the wrong book?"

Well, Charlie, surely you understand how solipsist your statement sounds: "I (the GENIUS--let all my lessers genuflect before my giant brain!) am not seeing it, so it must not exist ANYWHERE"!!! Please, dear fellow; you can't possibly be quite so provincial as all that!

I've never 'changed water into wine.' I've never been in a circumstance where that might be necessary. But Charlie, I have prayed for many sick people and had them healed. I have a friend who will tell you that he was raised from the dead at my prayer and commandment by Jesus' Name to his dead body to live.

I have a friend who seems to have walked on water on at least one occasion. He didn't intend to, and was unaware of it, until his dog plunged into the water, swimming behind him!

I think if you expand your 'field of vision' a little, you are quite likely to see an awful lot of physical healings, and other seemingly 'miraculous' manifestations. The universe is I think a much bigger place than you give it credit for being!

Now, as to the behavior of particular Christians, I think I can safely aver that very few of us indeed act in perfect accordance with Christ's commandments, or example. That's what the Christian concept of 'sin and redemption' is all about, my boy! That's what the whole New Testament is about! You didn't understand this in your reading? That is a VERY major theme, dear fellow. Are you sure your comprehension isn't closer to 94% than to 95%?

I know I'm poking fun at you, but it is because I am finding you absolutely delightful. Some take you as 'arrogant' you say? YOU DON'T SAY!??! The difference is: I LIKE IT!!!

Years back, when I was teaching undergrads in Phoenix, one of the faculty in the Philosophy Department was a truly brilliant Frenchman named 'Jean Claude'. Within days of starting to teach, almost all the other faculty had made it clear to me that they just detested the sight of Jean Claude because he was 'sooooooo arrogant.'

Indeed he was! Sitting in the Faculty Lounge, he used to loudly proclaim that "I am zee only wuuun who eez qualeefah'd to teach....." this or that course, or "Zer eez no one but me een zees deparmahnd who should be teaching zee Lozhique 201-202!" However, Jean Claude's eccentric, honest solipsism and complete lack of diplomacy left me in stitches, whereas it left the other faculty merely angry! My alacrity at his claims left Jean Claude wondering what I was laughing at, but nontheless, we got on great!

Charlie, you're a "Jean Claude, Jr." and it is a hoot talking with you! I do hope you can take some ribbing.

Hay Leonard

I am amused. Truly I am. I don

[David from New Bern]

CharlieC the prompt at the bottom of my screen says you are online at the same time I am at the present. Is there a desire at all in your heart to know the truth? Simply, do you want to believe what we believe?