Apostasy, have you seen it?

[David from New Bern]

Has anybody ever witnessed a church or church leader or concerned brother or sister in the Lord confronting an apostate? I am trying to get a feel for any offense of the church's part or believer part to be proactive to protect the sheep or to pursue a lost sheep. Is this happening with any frequency?

[jamie]

Has anybody ever witnessed a church or church leader or concerned brother or sister in the Lord confronting an apostate? I am trying to get a feel for any offense of the church's part or believer part to be proactive to protect the sheep or to pursue a lost sheep. Is this happening with any frequency?

Yes, there was confrontations at our old church. Several people went to the leadership including us.

Basically what people wanted was the whole 'truth' of the gospel presented, sin wasn't being preached against, only good uplifting sermons that wouldn't offend anybody.

If the leaders won't back you, you're wasting your breath and the only thing left to do is get out.

We did, and so did alot of others.

It's pretty bad when the leadership are the 'lost'.

[David from New Bern]

Has anybody ever witnessed a church or church leader or concerned brother or sister in the Lord confronting an apostate? I am trying to get a feel for any offense of the church's part or believer part to be proactive to protect the sheep or to pursue a lost sheep. Is this happening with any frequency?

Yes, there was confrontations at our old church. Several people went to the leadership including us.

Basically what people wanted was the whole 'truth' of the gospel presented, sin wasn't being preached against, only good uplifting sermons that wouldn't offend anybody.

If the leaders won't back you, you're wasting your breath and the only thing left to do is get out.

We did, and so did alot of others.

It's pretty bad when the leadership are the 'lost'.

How would you describe the church...size, rural, urban, well established, store-front, traditional, wealthy, middle class, educated, denomination, etc...?

[jamie]

Has anybody ever witnessed a church or church leader or concerned brother or sister in the Lord confronting an apostate? I am trying to get a feel for any offense of the church's part or believer part to be proactive to protect the sheep or to pursue a lost sheep. Is this happening with any frequency?

Yes, there was confrontations at our old church. Several people went to the leadership including us.

Basically what people wanted was the whole 'truth' of the gospel presented, sin wasn't being preached against, only good uplifting sermons that wouldn't offend anybody.

If the leaders won't back you, you're wasting your breath and the only thing left to do is get out.

We did, and so did alot of others.

It's pretty bad when the leadership are the 'lost'.

How would you describe the church...size, rural, urban, well established, store-front, traditional, wealthy, middle class, educated, denomination, etc...?

The church was small (around 200 people), well established, upper middle class would be the highest percent, they worshiped 'education' and thought it was the answer to everything.

It was non-denominational (charasmatic), the building wasn't real big or real small...one story brick.

Small town and well established....The elders were all successful businessmen.

[Adarian]

Apostasy is the abandoning of the faith altogether. Rejecting what was once believed. Apostasy creeps like a vine. But I do have a question. This falling away of 2 Thessalonians; does it refer to those who abandon the faith from within? This seems to me absurd, or as Paul stated, they were never really of the church, or they wouldn't have left. Or, does it refer to the world becoming increasingly resistant to the power of the gospel of Christ. Such that the whole world goes into sinful overdrive, angrily hating anything that stands up against filthiness and hedonism, and the love of goods? I tend towards seeing it as a great apostasy, of the world hating truth because of the pursuit of the fleshly lusts. I am considering using the rise of Islam and homosexuality as a measuring tape to hold against the world and determine what spiritual time it is.

[eric]

apostasy means what? To fall away, you can not fall away from something you were never in. The apostasy refers to the Church, the Church is falling away. This is sad to say but it is a reality, just read the the Letters to the Churches in Rev. Only two remained witnesses for the Lord. But, I say this with limited study, I pray God grants more grace concerning this and deeper truths as we allow Christ to fully live His life out thru us.

Well not quite right Ruck. The "church" will never fall away Or there would be no bride for the Lord to come back for. Some of the members of the denominational churches will fall away as the gospel gets watered down by all the easy believing preachers who call themselves pastors focus on themslves and the growth of their congregations.

The church is built on a rock that the gates of hell will not prevail against, of which I am priviledged to be a part of. A true saint will not apostasize, well not in my opinion anyway. The apostacy that Paul mentiones has already begun years ago where wannabe christians started looking fo a visible church that preached a doctrine they felt comfotable with.

the pulpit has to preach sin and sin again and again and the cosequnces of sin and repentance and the meaning of Christ and Him crucified and the only way for forgiveness and salvation is though Him and Him alone. Paul's letters to Timothy demonstrate what the apostacy is about and how people will react to sound doctrine.

Church is not a place to go to, to feel good about youeself and pat one another on the back, or a place where you can jive or rock and roll with Jesus, you can do that at home in front ot tv. It's a place to go to give honour and praises and glory and thanks to God for the finished work of His Son on the cross. The church won't apostasize, Ruck only those who get going when the going gets tough will.

Have a nice day in the Lord,

eric

[gypc]

But I do have a question. This falling away of 2 Thessalonians; does it refer to those who abandon the faith from within? This seems to me absurd, or as Paul stated, they were never really of the church, or they wouldn't have left. Or, does it refer to the world becoming increasingly resistant to the power of the gospel of Christ. Such that the whole world goes into sinful overdrive, angrily hating anything that stands up against filthiness and hedonism, and the love of goods? I tend towards seeing it as a great apostasy, of the world hating truth because of the pursuit of the fleshly lusts. I am considering using the rise of Islam and homosexuality as a measuring tape to hold against the world and determine what spiritual time it is.

I think it is both, the church and the world. Think about this.....Jesus said....Mat 5:14"You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden."

If we are the light of the world, then somewhere in time we stop shining the light of the cross of Christ.........what happens to the world?

Many leaders are believing they are walking in love by not offending.....but love without truth is dead. Our example is Jesus and the early church leaders. What did they preach? Repent from sin and turn to God........receiving what Christ did on the cross.

1 Cor 1:17For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

18For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

What is mans problem? SIN. What is the answer to mans problem? The blood of Jesus. It's simple but at some point we left the simplicity of the gospel and had to go beyond the cross and wound up back into the wisdom of this world which now......has become shallow and made the cross of none effect.

[gypc]

Eric, you must've been posting when I was. You said it well bro.

[Christ's Free Servant]

Has anybody ever witnessed a church or church leader or concerned brother or sister in the Lord confronting an apostate? I am trying to get a feel for any offense of the church's part or believer part to be proactive to protect the sheep or to pursue a lost sheep. Is this happening with any frequency?

I don't know if this is happening or how frequently it is happening, but the Lord has led me, at times, to confront apostasy, and those who are just the regular folks like me have, for the most part, been in agreement with me, but those in leadership have not listened, at least not to my knowledge. No one has said, "you are right, we need to change the way we are doing things."

[David from New Bern]

Has anybody ever witnessed a church or church leader or concerned brother or sister in the Lord confronting an apostate? I am trying to get a feel for any offense of the church's part or believer part to be proactive to protect the sheep or to pursue a lost sheep. Is this happening with any frequency?

I don't know if this is happening or how frequently it is happening, but the Lord has led me, at times, to confront apostasy, and those who are just the regular folks like me have, for the most part, been in agreement with me, but those in leadership have not listened, at least not to my knowledge. No one has said, "you are right, we need to change the way we are doing things."

What was the issue? Why do you think leadership did not confront it?