Jack Van Impe

[Catsmeow]

The Van Impes are kind and patient with RCs...but they don't appear to agree with everything that Catholic...they just attempt not to alienate the RCs...*(I myself do the same).

BlindSeeker: I agree totally with you...we need to take a stand. It's NOT "OKAY" for Christians to go to nudist camps' it's NOT okay for Christians to be ordained ministers and be gay; it's NOT okay to say all roads lead to heaven. We have to draw a line in the sand.

The Van Impes have never done anything like WOF or approved of anything specifically Catholic. They just love everyone period. So do I.

They embrace anyone who is focused on the Cross of Jesus Christ. That's the big picture for them. Their primary focus is "end times" but they are largely focused on people coming to Christ.

We don't want to end up an army that shoots it's wounded and buries them too.... An army utterly divided is doomed.

[Catsmeow]

Remember we are judged for every word.

Word: I totally agree, Sis! Brother Blindseeker is just being especially cautious. I know and respect where he's coming from...he's "wired" or gifted to guard and protect the Body [of Christ] ...through thorough study of the Word and through discernment.

I, too am hyper-sensitive to anything or anyone who is a potential threat to the Body of Christ...but I sense the heart of the Van Impe's is pure and that they deeply cherish and love the brethren...even those they disagree with .

[BlindSeeker]

BlindSeeker:  I agree totally with you...we need to take a stand. It's NOT  "OKAY" for Christians to go to nudist camps' it's NOT okay for Christians to be ordained ministers and be gay; it's NOT okay to say all roads lead to heaven. We have to draw a line in the sand.

The Van Impes have never done anything like WOF or approved of anything specifically Catholic. They just love everyone period. So do I.

They embrace anyone who is focused on the Cross of Jesus Christ. That's the big picture for them.  Their primary focus is "end times" but they are largely focused on people coming to Christ.

We don't want to end up an army that shoots it's wounded and buries them too.... An army utterly divided is doomed.

It's not really that simple. Teachers are held by God and His word to a higher standard.

• Jas 3:1 My brethren, be not many masters [teachers], knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
  
  Ga 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
  
  Ga 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
  
  
  
  • 1Ti 5:19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses. [certain thatcame from James and Barnabas, as well as all the Gentiles present]
    

20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear. [such Paul did, he rebuked Peter]
21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality [but rather by jealousy for God and His righteous precepts]

Certainly Jack Van Impe is not greater than Peter that he should be excluded for both scrutiny and accountability.

Peace,

William

[Catsmeow]

But Brother, I do believe they (Van Impes) deeply and intensely love the Lord with all their hearts...Would we ever wish to do harm to a brother in Christ who truly loves the Lord and is serving Him with all their hearts?

I am so bent on being loyal to our brothers and not wounding them.

You know I listen closely to what you say and don't take you lightly. I wish to remain as faithful and loyal to the brotherhood of all believers...faithful to the Body of Christ.

Sometimes we walk a very fine line, seeking to remain totally faithful to the Word yet also to our Family in Christ.

[RGR]

There is quite a difference in one causing divisions and one sharing their view of what the Bible says. Within the Church, we have those who feel that there is a pre-trib rapture (as I do), mid-trib and even post-trib. We have those who feel (United Church of God) who feel we are still bound by OT food laws (sorry, I like sausage a bit too much to agree!) and religious feasts and that the only thing done away with is sacrifices as Jesus done away with those and that circumcision is gone. There are those who still believe in keeping Saturday as the Day of the Lord instead of Sunday. We have those who celebrate Christmas and Easter and those who don't. We have those who listen to country music and those who don't.

My point is this-there are those who disagree on subjects (many are quite trivial), but if you accept the basic tenet of Christianity-Christ and Him crucified, and you're doing what you feel in your heart is right, hey, don't start calling folks a blight on the church.

Now, when you have Jesse Duplantis, Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn and others running around bilking people out of their money, that's causing division! :t:

[Catsmeow]

Hi, Ron! Great post!

[BlindSeeker]

You know I listen closely to what you say and don't take you lightly. I wish to remain as faithful and loyal to the brotherhood of all believers...faithful to the Body of Christ.

Sometimes we walk a very fine line, seeking to remain totally faithful to the Word yet also to our Family in Christ.

• Mt 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
  
  
  We are not called by the Spirit or the Word to be "loyal" to any one other than God.
  
  Yes, we are to submit ourselves one to another in the fear of God. And, yes, we are to be commited to one anothers physical, emotional, and spiritual well being. But not loyal.
  
  Loyalty to man will always result in a sinful compromise. But love and commitment regulated by God's holy Word and illuminated by His Holy Spirit never will.
  
  Our loyalty is for God whole heartedly and often results in faithful wounds to our friends and fellow believers.
  
  
  • Ps 141:5 Let the righteous smite me; it shall be a kindness: and let him reprove me; it shall be an excellent oil, which shall not break my head: for yet my prayer also shall be in their calamities.
    6 When their judges are overthrown in stony places, they shall hear my words; for they are sweet.
    
    Pr 27:5 Open rebuke is better than secret love.
    6 Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.
    
    Pr 28:23 He that rebuketh a man afterwards shall find more favour than he that flattereth with the tongue.
    

There is a big difference between what many christians call "love" and true righteous love accordance to God's Spirit and Word.

To understand yrue righteous love, or "God's love," a distinction must be made between the natural humanistic perspective of "love" and God's "righteous love." Humanistic love (considering man's fallen nature) is given to whimsical fits and isunstable. It fluctuates with the changing of emotions and will often cease without reason. Humanistic love rarely prescribes to reason and is rarely overruled by the laws of God. When shaken, it usually can only be tranquilized by a self-favorable compromise.

Humanistic love has a high toleration of sin in another, especially when something desirable for self might be obtained, (else their own sins may not be tolerated), but if there is no personal profit the response is usually criticism, not love.

Ro 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.

God's love is not governed by His emotions, rather it is founded in His righteousness and mercy. This is clearly seen in Matthew 23:37, "0 Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee, how often I would have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold your house is left to you desolate."

If God's love was swayed by His emotions He would have forgiven everybody. He would have gathered them (with all their wickedness) unto Himself whether they repented or not. God's love transcends His emotions and is founded in holiness and truth. As Christians we too must cease to be ruled by our emotions and resolve ourselves to live in righteousness before God.

Jesus said in John 14:21-24a, "He that hath My commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth Me: and he that loveth Me shall be loved of My Father, and I will love him and will manifest Myself to him. If a man love Me, he will keep My words: and My Father will love him, and We will come and make Our abode with him. He that loveth Me not keepeth not My sayings."

Our emotions are God given and good, but they're to be the expressions of our hearts, not the rulers of our lives. Paul instructed the Corinthians saying "the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they have none; and they that weep, as though they wept not; and they that rejoice, as though they rejoiced not; and they that buy, as though they possess not; and they that use this world, as not abusing it: for the fashion of this world passeth away."

Paul wasn't forbidding marriage, nor was he forbidding us to weep or rejoice, rather he was warning us not to allow ourselves to be dominated by our marital status, emotions, possessions, or the world. We are to be ruled by the righteousness of God. We are to loyal to Him alone and live to fulfill His will, not our own.

"Righteous love" is founded in the willful and intellectual adherence to God's word. Though unswayed by emotions it enjoys full emotional expression.

Righteous love, like faith and hope, is firmly founded upon God and His word. It is determined in the mind and surrendered in the heart. Does not God say "Come now and let us reason [intellectually] together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land: but if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the Lord has spoken it."

When God commanded us to love one another, it must be within the confines of God's precepts. Though we are to be longsuffering with immaturity, ignorance and other human frailties and limitations, we must not and cannot tolerate sin in each other. If one is over taken by a fault, then those who are able to instruct must go and do so. Yet if one defiantly rebels against God, he is to be rebuked. Should he repent of his wickedness, then let him be forgiven and received as a brother. If he doesn't he must be removed from the fellowship of believers for he has forfeited his fellowship with God. What fellowship has light with darkness? None.

If we are to effectively love one another so as to minister to and build each other up, we must devote ourselves to the knowing of both God and His word. We must never compromise our convictions for the sake of unity. We're commanded to be committed to each other, not loyal. Loyalty to man eventually results in sinful compromise. We must never love anyone, family or otherwise, so much that we unwittingly cast away our pearl of great price.

Peace,

William

[Catsmeow]

Blindseeker: As always, you've given me much to study and meditate on.

I'm printing your post and will probably read and reread over several times.

I have been so desperately needing to hear this. Oh, how hard balance can be at times.

You were so transparent with us on one of your posts and our past experiences so affect us, don't they?

In my case, I really understand what Jesus went through with Judas. I have been horribly betrayed by a friend and left devastated.

When I see people being "beat up" on or badgered, my blood boils. I hate it when I see people who seem to feed on rumor and conspiracy theories.

It really disturbs me because I recognize the spirit behind it...and it's a dark, dark spirit. I'm one who always stands up for the "underdog"...I'm the kind of kid who'd stand up against a bunch of bullies picking on the little kid at school...that's who I am, Seeker.

When I think someone's out to hurt others, I see red. I go into "protect and defend" mode.

I think I understand what you're saying...but I have to read and absorb what you say, *you say it so well* but I want to grasp it fully and completely.

You have a talent for explaining things ...but I usually have to study it and not brush through it...and think it through very carefully.

I know you have a good heart and are a humble man. I also know you're not out to harm anyone...but you're intent on defending the Word and standing firm on the Lord's precepts.

And yes, I do indeed wrestle with the emotional aspects because I, too have been wounded, and by harsh and critical persons. So when I think someone's being belittled or judged harshly, I run to their defense.

I will really think about what you've said. It shines much light on what I've been struggling with.

[Catsmeow]

Humanistic  love has a high toleration of  sin  in another, especially when  something desirable for self might be obtained,  (else their  own  sins  may  not  be tolerated), but if there is no personal profit the response is usually criticism, not love.

Blindseeker: Question: The Lord said that those who show mercy shall receive mercy; those who judge shall be judged.

Being an object of God's mercy, I naturally lean towards wanting to show mercy towards others. Out of gratitude, I desire to respond in kind.

Jesus told a parable about a man who'd been forgiven a great debt by the King, only to deal harshly with a man who owed him a small debt, (by comparison), yet he demanded payment in full.

When the King found out, he retracted his mercy from that same man. *(Sorta like what goes around, comes around).

I guess BlindSeeker, I'm struggling with this.

I remember the righteous anger the Lord showed when his own disciples forbade the little children to come to him.

Or his mighty defense of the poor widow and her two mites...it was all she had to offer. He saw the woman's heart intent.

Dearest brother, you've been so kind to share your heart so openly. I wish to share one thing also...

When in missions I noticed how indifferent many "M's" seemed to the suffering all around. They seemed more self-oriented and less concerned with the needs of so many hurting people. I've seen what happens when people become haughty in their attitudes. They don't care about anyone...but themselves and their own needs.

I am so amazed that people have no fear of God. None. Not even those in missions.

I know the spirit of darkness; it's a malevolent spirit that either (1) bears the fruit of indifference OR (2) feeds on inflicting pain on others. The latter seems to bear a striking likeness of Jerry Springer and the same glut for "exposing" people.

That troubles my heart greatly. We are supposed to love others, while still despising their sinfulness.

How can we find that balance?

Many thanks for the volumes of knowledge and wisdom shared here. I have been blessed by many dear brothers and you are among those who've blessed me richly.

[Voice Of God]

I hate when some of you get on here and start attacking peoples ministries as you do!

You seem to get a high out of wronging other preachers of the gospel!?

Well, if it makes you feel more justified and gives you self satisfaction, continue on, but be warned that God takes no pleasure in this and you shall have to answer to Him.