The Secularisation of Christian Music

[Guest yod]

But one person says it's terrible to use ANY musical instruments while another thinks it has to be music that "sounds" holy to them.

are we going to get into mechanical instruments now??

Oh Lord, bless us as we sing in harmony to the holy sound of the tractor.

[tsth]

What if this thread were titled "The Secularization of Christians"? Then it would be easy to answer the question wouldn't it.

So why does adding the word "music" at the end change the answer?

Just wondering.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Blood Stained Soul]

Greetings in Christ!

I will first say that if I wanted to reach some people in the ghetto i would not use southern gospel...i would use Christian hip-hop and rap...so now I am an extremest and a pharisee? Have I called any of you names? Certainly not, and saying stuff I wish to "debate" about is stupid..well I think it is not...if there is to be untity in the Body of Christ then their needs to be this sort of talk...a house divided cannot stand..we as a people need to take united stands on issues...when we cannot as ambassodors of Christ agree on something...we need to understand why. I will no longer be posting in this thread...as the others have gone the way of insults.

I will address a mis-interpreted scripture...funny how I see that a good bit here the more I read these threads...scripture twisting...

here is the what is going on in this Chapter 7 of Mark

17 And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable.

18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;

19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?

20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.

21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,

22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:

23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

Here he was talking about his previous debate about the tradition of washing of hands...Yod you quoted Jesus Mid sentence and tried to treat my wife like a retard...which is not the case...she is far more mature in Faith than alot of people I have come across here..though you do not see me throwing down insults at individual people...I address people as a whole..rebuking of individuals is something that should be down in private first according to Matthew 18.

Jesus is saying that food that is eaten with unwashed hands cannot harm you..it also says by saying this he cleansed all meats...it cannot harm you..for it comes out as waste. This could not be the case for music...ever heard a song for the first time in years...maybe even 20 years depending on your age...still knew the lyrics didnt you...so it did not go in one end and out the other did it...it stayed...it lingered...Paul said medaite on that which is pure...which wordly music is not..lets look at something in this very scripture that will better make my point...

21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,

22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:

23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

Now how do such things get into the heart..seeds planted by the devil...through music...through movies...television...the internet..etc...if as you say it is okay to listen to secular music because it is not a stumbling block...then what about the person who says he does not see it as a stumbling block to watch pornography...he can twist scripture to make his case too..and present the arguemnt that it does not "affect" him at all...well thats not a fair comparison you may say...well i see it so..for compromise is compromise...no matter what it is in.

Why should sinners come to Christ if the people of God are no different. There needs to be a DISTINCT difference...I know my posts are not popular...Holiness Preaching never is...for the Body of Christ as a whole wants their cake and to eat it too...they want Jesus but they want a Burger King Jesus...their way right away...K-mart special...most Jesus for least bit of cost...compromise...does Jesus have you! You say you have him...but is he your Lord..do you do things as you see it....how you interpret it in the Word...or do you let the Holy Spirit teach you...not mans wisdom and doctrines..but Gods...thats what it boils down to in a nutshell. If your half into the things of the world but half into the Kingdom...your all the way headed to hell. Most people are gonna do what they want and think is okay...as they have since the garden...and they will continue to ignore people like myself....who cry aloud the message of Holiness...until the Lord comes...but do not tell him you never heard that taking part in the worlds junk would keep you out of Heaven....he will remind of people that God used to try to warn you...like this post did...Blessings and I am done with this thread...

[Guest yod]

FIRST of all if I said anything that offended your wife I am sorry.

But I have never said you or anyone else is stupid. I said this is a stupid debate.

We hammer out some tough subjects here at Worthy Boards. If you are going to imply that some of us are "lesser" spiritual beings than you because of a preference in music, then you can expect strong opposition. If you can't handle that then be more careful about who & what you accuse.

your all the way headed to hell. Most people are gonna do what they want and think is okay...as they have since the garden...and they will continue to ignore people like myself....who cry aloud the message of Holiness...until the Lord comes...but do not tell him you never heard that taking part in the worlds junk would keep you out of Heaven....he will remind of people that God used to try to warn you...like this post did...Blessings and I am done with this thread...

You are assuming quite a lot there, friend, and trying to put words in my mouth again. Nowhere have I condoned sin or compromising with the world.

"Be in the world but not of it..."

"Be ye wise as serpents yet harmless as doves"

"Ye men of Athens I declare unto you this unknown god.."

there are dozens of examples where people of faith are able to live in the real world and still are salt and light

If you want to be irrelevant to sinners it is your choice. That is not a biblical model but go right ahead....

And for the record, I have never told you what you should do....yet you have harranged me because I "might not" like your kind of music?

that is the epitome of arrogance.

[Catsmeow]

I will first say that if I wanted to reach some people in the ghetto i would not use southern gospel...i would use Christian hip-hop and rap...so now I am an extremest and a pharisee?

If you would indeed reach people "where" they are at...then

We walk a tight rope in Christianity..not wanting to compromise truth and to be utterly faithful to the Lord, (believe it or not, we're really on the same team, folks).

But we also want to be realistic and reach those who are falling through the net.

I ran an Emergency Abuse Shelter (through DCF) for abused and "at risk" inner city kids.

I can assure you that playing Kirk Franklin and Bebe and Cici Winans is far more effective than organ music.

So, if you're cool with that...great. But it sounded really judgemental..and for those of us who work with people who are often on the "fringe" of society, we already know that there are cultural barriers we have to cross to reach people.

I, for one, use a lot of Carmen's music - which homeboys and gangbangers seem to relate to more easily than traditional church hymns.

So, if that point meant to clarify that you are not calling such things as "secular" ...then great. We're cool.

[RGR]

Boy, I seem to be drawn to the music discussions! I try to stay :x: and not say something offensive, but I did want to my own short opinion if I might be so entitled.

I have no beef with good secular music. However, my feelings are if that you are going to call yourself a Christian performer, don't muddy the waters with things that are not Christian, no matter how innocent. You confuse folks doing that sort of thing. Amy Grant done it on "Heart In Motion" and she is now totally secular. Michael W. Smith made his nods towards secular as have the Winans and DC Talk. It's one thing to be a secular artist who wants to sing the praises of God (Hank Williams, Sr., Elvis, even Al Green done some gospel) as you are in no way identifying yourself as being a Christian artist, but I don't think that the vice-versa situation is correct.

As for so-called "secular" music, I listen to good, clean music no matter what it's stripe. There are songs in almost every realm of music that speak of love, the beauty of nature, the wonderments of technology that God gave us the wisdom to create ("Wabash Cannonball", "Fire Ball Mail", etc.) and I don't find that in any way displeasing to God. Now, when I hear "A Tear In My Beer" (no matter what a great singer ole Hank was), I turn the station-or any such song for that matter.

But, being the optimist, here's the way I have music figured. I think ole Hank managed to repent right before he died (his gospel music shows Christian themes that only a Christian could truly know), so he made it to Gloryland. I also believe Roy Acuff made it there also. First, we're going to hear the angels sing, then we'll hear the Heavenly choir sing. Then, for an added bonus, God is going to say, "Well, you've heard some great singing, but now I'm going to let you hear the two greatest voices I ever created. Take it away Hank and Roy" and we'll hear "I Saw The Light"!

[Guest JaredKC]

Hey I 'm new to this messagen board and I have scanned through some out what you people have put on threre about some mainstream bands, such as Creed and P.O.D.Anyway I would like to fill you in on some thing everybody thinks Creed is a good wholesome Christian band well they ain't.If you listen to their music more carefully you will see that the lyrics question religion and wonder if it is true.

You see I listen to metal and rap music. I look at their little books they have in the cd cases most of the time and you would be surprised on how many bandmembers thank God. Here are a few examples, Dez from Coal Chamber, Shaggy 2 Dope and Violent J of Insane Clown Posse, Fred Durst from Limp Bizkit, Chester from Linkin Park;Proof , Kon artis Swift and Kuniva from D12.These are just a few people from the many bands I listen to who praise God. Also, guess what about everyone on this list but Chester have some really bad lyris in there songs. If you don't believe me look the lyrics up on www.musicmademe.com.Anyway I was just trying to tell you that there are more musicians out there that believe in God then you think.

[hazel]

Boy, I seem to be drawn to the music discussions! I try to stay :x: and not say something offensive

However, my feelings are if that you are going to call yourself a Christian performer, don't muddy the waters with things that are not Christian, no matter how innocent. You confuse folks doing that sort of thing. Amy Grant done it on "Heart In Motion" and she is now totally secular. Michael W. Smith made his nods towards secular as have the Winans and DC Talk.

I hear ya, Ron!! The music topics are of interest to me, too! Hey, does anyone remember the 80's band "the Violent Femmes"? They were one of the bands I listened to in my teens, (very explicit lyrics on certain songs). :x: Then all of a sudden they start diong music with Biblical themes, one or two songs on each of their later albums. But the rest of the songs are still pretty much trash. While the "worship" songs are GREAT , I can't get past the fact that they're still pumpin' out garbage for the next generation to hear! The lead singer, Gordan Gano professes to be a devout Baptist, but still seems to be of a double mind. Blessings and cursings should not come out of the same mouth. It's hurting his witness, (if witnessing is what he's trying to do) , and confusing alot of kids.God's musicians (even the ones who only sing for Him part of the time) should stop riding the fence, no matter how much money stands to be lost. What does it profit a man if he gains the world, and looses his soul???

[The Journey]

All I need to do is do as the Lord Jesus Christ instructed in his Word to do...examine the fruit...thats where you get "proof

Blood,

How much time have you spent with Paul Hewson (Bono)? Its very hard to judge his fruit unless we get a little closer to his world. Remember the rebuke of the Master in Mark 9:38-41. Just because they are not part of our crowd and follow Him differently doesn't give us license to judge. There is a lot of junk out there. But I think the enemy has the tares much closer than some musician on a record label. The real deception is happening from main stream ministers introducing old and new heresies right under our noses.

- Steve

[Catsmeow]

Blessings and cursings should not come out of the same mouth.

Hazel: Amen, Sis!

Steve: Man, it's so great to see you post again...you've been away, probably doing "daddy" things with your little daughter....who's no doubt growing up too fast.

Still, it's super to see you post when you can... :a: