Split - How Words Can Affect Change

[Kabowd]

Whatever happened to sanctification? Just because you have CHrist doesn't mean you're perfect...it means we have a way to overcome these difficulties...but we are never free from our fallen state. We will always suffer from physical problems (such as mental problems) and sin. Anyone who says Christians can't suffer from mental problems generally has no knowledge of either:

1) Mental problems

2) The Bible

Btw, we are a part of this world. We will be until we die. We can never escape it.

Exactly!

Becoming a Christian is just the beginning. We all still have some (or a lot!) of "flesh" to work out and overcome . . . and we do until we die. That's a part of living on the other side of Eden, so to speak.

Mine just happens to include overcoming the consequences of a painful childhood and not having known how to cope with it.

**

And ruck - no I'm not just sitting in it. I've been working hard over the past many years to overcome it. But it will be a weakness in me for the rest of my life. Some doors once oopen just don't quite shut all the way. But, I'm better able to handle the depression lapses when they come. That's a part of maturing and growing.

Imagine how much peace and joy we'd all have if we could fully grasp that becoming believers is not an arrival, but a journey. So often we are taught that accepting Christ should solve all of our problems or that the any struggles we face post-salvation are due to rebellion, sin, lack of faith, disobedience, etc. When in reality, it's because we are human and our world has not been fully redeemed. Christ is our hope and our joy and our peace through the trials, through the fire, through the waters, and suffering and pain. That is our hope.

[apothanein kerdos]

And this is the problem. You are still working. You are still depending on your strength to get thru. I pray that you do see the reality of our work verses God's work. God see it like this. IT IS FINISHED.

Works do nothing for our justification but they mean everything in our sanctification. We have to work, albiet in God's power, but none the less, we are the ones doing the work.

[nebula]

And this is the problem. You are still working. . . .

If you break a bone, will entering into God's rest heal the bone, or do you have to set the bone, put it in a cast, sometimes seal up the skin damage around it?

Sure, God can heal the bone instantly, but does He always?

It's the same with the soul.

Souls can become injured just like the body.

And just like the body, injuries to the soul need to be treated properly and given the correct therapy in order for them to be healed.

Yes, God can do a miraculous healing, but He doesn't always.

[nebula]

Yes, but that doesn't mean we will be free from turmoils - external or internal.

2 Cor. 12:7-10

7 And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure.

8 Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me.

9 And He said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness." Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ's sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

Phil. 2:12 - Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;

[EricH]

And this is the problem. You are still working. . . .

If you break a bone, will entering into God's rest heal the bone, or do you have to set the bone, put it in a cast, sometimes seal up the skin damage around it?

Sure, God can heal the bone instantly, but does He always?

It's the same with the soul.

Souls can become injured just like the body.

And just like the body, injuries to the soul need to be treated properly and given the correct therapy in order for them to be healed.

Yes, God can do a miraculous healing, but He doesn't always.

I agree!! I have a young person I am discipling who struggles with a mild form of Bipolar disorder. All their life they have been told that when they are depressed it is because of sin in their life. This has created guilt and frustration for them. One day during discipleship the topic came up. I shared with them that some forms of depression are chemical and have nothing to do with our faith. They began to weep, because that is the first time a Christian had affirmed that it is possible that depression can have a medical basis. They are being treated and seeing improvement.

We need to be careful that our theology does not cause pain in people's lives that God does not intend on inflicting. We would never approach a 90 year old dieing from a failing heart and try to convince them that if they had enough faith, they would not die.

[nebula]

Phil. 2:12 - Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;

Broken homes produce broken children.

Fixing that brokenness takes more than just "trust in God" type of counsel.

The children have to unlearn wrong practices, wrong ways of handling conflict, wrong ways of dealing with stress, wrong self-reflections, wrong everything.

Healing that takes time and dicipline. Yes, the Lord is the Great Healer, I do not dispute that!

I know He escued me out of major depressive episodes more than once miraculously.

But the chronic depression - the ability to receive love - learning how to deal with anger constructively rather than destructively - all those things mixed up with this - these the Lord is having me live with and walk out

Just like He's having me live with this rheumatoid arthritis and other physiological disorders I have.

Are you going to tell me that my RA is not getting healed due to a lack of faith as well?

[SwordFish]

ruckb1,

it "seems" that you haven't gone to the great depths as some have and you do not understand those who suffer in this particular way. these individuals are very deep people being able to connect to their inner man in ways i'll never know and only wish i could know. they draw from the deep well of their soul. some people in life are super high and these types tap into heights and places i couldn't even dream of reaching. they also have keen eyesight that they can give to the body of christ. but you youself may never understand them but maybe the things they've learned along the way are really not meant for you but for the sake of others. they have purpose though you may never share in that purpose with them.

swordfish

Edited March 30, 2006 by SwordFish

[SwordFish]

ruckb1,

it "seems" that you haven't gone to the great depths as some have and you do not understand those who suffer in this particular way. these individuals are very deep people being able to connect to their inner man in ways i'll never know and only wish i could know. they draw from the deep well of their soul. some people in life are super high and these types tap into heights and places i couldn't even dream of reaching. they also have keen eyesight that they can give to the body of christ. but you youself may never understand them but maybe the things they've learned along the way are really not meant for you but for the sake of others. they have purpose though you may never share in that purpose with them.

swordfish

That is good on the surface, but when it comes down to it Christ is Christ. We should speak from His Life. Our experiences should testify of the expansion of Christ in us. But at times they leave us defeated and broken. You man think you know me but rest assured things are not often as they "seem". I speak of an experience, a reality that is in Christ. The reality is that He is our all in all. All we need is Him. Once again this also means HIS BODY. We must be weary of the counsel that we take, we must see what the one speaking is planting.

I pray all the more that the strength of Adam is exhausted in each saint who DESIRES the freedom and rest that is in Christ. I pray that the more we strive the more we are broken until we see that we must totally give up. We must be still

Psa 23:1 <A Psalm of David.> The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.

Psa 23:2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.

Psa 23:3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

Psa 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

Psa 23:5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.

Psa 23:6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

AMEN!!

ruckb1

deep calleth unto the deep each to his own brother bye bye

swordfish

[Iryssa]

Look at the title of the topic.

"how words can affect change OR correct thinking errors"

I think it's supposed to be "effect," actually...

[SwordFish]

as i already said they are deep individuals and the body in my opinion should teach them to give out of their wells the things they have learned from those places in which we do not know and have not been. it is not a simple thing i suggest nor does it advocate false doctrine it is about receiving of the gifts christ gave to them. the adulterous women who washed the feet of jesus with her hair others around could not understand the great love which see was showing jesus but jesus did. others don't see the possible potential of someones worth always but it is there just the same and sometimes these opinions are only based on what others are expecting from them. they have to meet certain expectations placed on them by others and it will not work.

everybody is at different levels and you can't expect a handicapped person to run physically in a marathon it will not happen although they may enter into a marathon race and even win win it. but it will be within the confinement of the wheelchair. but we in the body should also want this desire for those who suffer in this way to win the prize of the high calling of God.

it's like they can get so lost in their souls looking for answers in a way we don't.understand and comprehend. they just jump straight down the well and will stay their splashing around until they catch hold of a truth. which is like a rope to them and that one truth can take them so far until it get's used up. and then they need more so they'll jump right back down in the well again searching for that one nugget to help them within the pain they feel on the inside of their hearts. but this is my opinion you can use it or you can cast it aside. i just know these people have worth and they shouldn't have to meet others expectations of them but be taught to reach down and bring what they find out. for that's how they work.

swordfish

swordfish