The book of revelations: for individuals not the world

[spirited_one]

What if the book, is an account of dreams and visions set to befall those who follow the path to the kingdom of heaven, first before making any effort to establish themselves in this world as being anyone or anything.

Then there is no need to fear god or get upset.

For he said. First you must be reborn to enter the kingdom of heaven.

And that once you set out for it, you will enter the kingdom before you leave this life.

And this book is account of a birth, a destruction and finally a rebirth, afterwhich death for the subject, holds no effect.

What if that was the ultimate truth of what god was sharing.

Then why the greed, why the titles, why the jockying for higher ground and positioning amongst your fellow human beings.

Why "I am catholic" "I am jewish" "I am buddist" "I am muslim" "I am christian" "I am white" "I am asian"

Why all the I am's in those who devote themselves to the teachings of God through christ.

Why?

It can only spell out that the point has been missed, entirely.

Seek first the kingdom of heaven, and all else shall come onto you

All else, is all else, not some or a bit here and a bit there, it's referring to everything

What is your answer?

Do you have one that opens your heart?

Here's another question.

If we say we believe in christ, does this mean we believe in the historical account of his life, his acts

or does it mean we believe in what god taught and promised through Jesus.

If the latter, for the two are quite different then why do you fight and take offence.

If you can fight with another, then your faith is brittle and not made of sturdier stuff.

Question the teachers, question with your hearts, and beware of anyone who sports a title, they serve two masters.

in faith as deep as it gets

spirited_one

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

The Book of Revelation is the Revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I would very much like to know who you say He is?

In the Book of Revelation it speaks of the King who is, was, and is to come. That King is Jesus.

It also speaks of a false king who will claim to be this king and will take up arms against God and His anointed. However this false king will fail and the Lord will destroy Him with His coming and great Wrath poured out against all who have not received the Truth.

Have you received the Truth?

Revelation is about Jesus and those who are His own as well the fate of those who are not.

Jesus Christ is coming. Has it been revealed to you?

Peace,

Dave

[spirited_one]

Hi Dave,

Well to answer the question as to whether he has bee revealed to me. Not completely,

For the past few years now I have not experienced the passage of time, I have been experiencing dreams on a nightly basis that are exactly as described in the book.

I also have gained insight into much what the book is about. Admittedly this insight seems to be just for myself. I posted because out of curiousity I was wondering what other thought of it.

At the moment in my dreams I seem to be bothering people with the truth and I am aware that I will be struck down at some point (its just a matter of time really)

So in point of fact, from my perspective, I am in the midst of the revealment having and currently experiencing much of what it refers to in life as well in spirit/dreamland

On the question of who do I think Jesus is. with out question the one born to lead, the one who didn't have a choice, and in being so brought into the world, laid the way for anyone who comes to his life/teaching to make the choice for themselves to come to the father.

Does that answer your questions

respectfully

Spirited_one

Grace to you,

The Book of Revelation is the Revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I would very much like to know who you say He is?

In the Book of Revelation it speaks of the King who is, was, and is to come. That King is Jesus.

It also speaks of a false king who will claim to be this king and will take up arms against God and His anointed. However this false king will fail and the Lord will destroy Him with His coming and great Wrath poured out against all who have not received the Truth.

Have you received the Truth?

Revelation is about Jesus and those who are His own as well the fate of those who are not.

Jesus Christ is coming. Has it been revealed to you?

Peace,

Dave

[Leonard]

Just for yourself? I would be mighty suspicious of such 'revelations' from the Scripture, for the Scripture itself says that 'no Scripture is for private interpretation.....'

I agree the book of the Revelation IS primarily about the interior life of the Believer in Christ. It is NOT meant to reflect those who do not honor Jesus as God Almighty.

[spirited_one]

It would appear that the fuit isn't quite ripe, for if it were it would taste sweet to those that eat of it: thus should it be giving off a bitter taste, perhaps it need more ripening.

My point is that if what I am talking about is causing consternation, then I see it as prudent to disdain from talking further untill such point as the one that is true of and for all, reveals all.

In a way my talking here, can be likened to a child who upon seeing a movie runs out to tell all his friends about it while the movie isn't finished. Who knows he could be missing the point entirely.

Another time then

In good faith and honest intentions

the unripened fruit

spirited_one

Just for yourself? I would be mighty suspicious of such 'revelations' from the Scripture, for the Scripture itself says that 'no Scripture is for private interpretation.....'

I agree the book of the Revelation IS primarily about the interior life of the Believer in Christ. It is NOT meant to reflect those who do not honor Jesus as God Almighty.

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

Ripe Fruit would produce the Truth. It is the Spirits job to bring forth the Glory of Jesus Christ. By revealing Him to a lost world through the witness and testimony of God in our, the Believers, lives.

Then why the greed, why the titles, why the jockying for higher ground and positioning amongst your fellow human beings.

Why "I am catholic" "I am jewish" "I am buddist" "I am muslim" "I am christian" "I am white" "I am asian"

Why all the I am's in those who devote themselves to the teachings of God through christ.

Why?

It can only spell out that the point has been missed, entirely.

Why the need to bring in the Muslims and the Buddhists and state that this is seperating? Of course it is. They hold not the Truth.

This serves to muddy the waters a bit in your Testimony and is why I asked you the question.

Your answer is still a bit sublime.

Well to answer the question as to whether he has bee revealed to me. Not completely,

For the past few years now I have not experienced the passage of time.

On the question of who do I think Jesus is. with out question the one born to lead, the one who didn't have a choice, and in being so brought into the world, laid the way for anyone who comes to his life/teaching to make the choice for themselves to come to the father.

How not completely?

Secondly your answer doesn't really tell me who Jesus is.

I agree He is a Teacher of the Truth. I also agree He is the way to the Father. He is also the Life.

I disagree that he didn't have a choice. Quite the polar opposite is True. He chose to Love you even unto death. To the laying aside of His Robes of Glory and the veiling of Himself in your flesh.

Ultimately I still am not clear on who you think He is.

I want to say alittle more about Fruit. Fruit of the Spirit should be Fruit of the Truth and seeking to give the Glory to God with the focus on the revelation of Him in your life.

Eph

[ayin jade]

On the question of who do I think Jesus is. with out question the one born to lead, the one who didn't have a choice, and in being so brought into the world, laid the way for anyone who comes to his life/teaching to make the choice for themselves to come to the father.

I disagree. Jesus had the choice. He chose to do Gods will. He chose to be the sacrifice for our sins. He chose to lay down His life for us. His atonement for our sins frees us. We are not saved by His teachings, but by His sacrifice. He didnt come to show us a path to follow to get to heaven. He came to atone for our sins, and show us how we need to repent and turn to the Lord. That is a bit different than what you are advocating.

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings,

Regarding:

On the question of who do I think Jesus is. with out question the one born to lead, the one who didn't have a choice, and in being so brought into the world, laid the way for anyone who comes to his life/teaching to make the choice for themselves to come to the father.

All I can say is this:

1 John 2:18-20 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. 20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

1 John 2:21-25 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. 22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

1 John 4:1-3 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2 John 1:7-11 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. 9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

or perhaps

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Among us there are those who do not recognize Christ as God or the Messiah as foretold by the prophets. They acknowledge Him perhaps as a great and good teacher, but deny that He IS GOD.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[spirited_one]

Hello again fellow humans

I write again to be bold and blunt. Having read the replies of you Dave, Leonard and Dad ernie I have been positively moved to respond and clarify myself and what I have previously spoken

On the question as to whether Jesus had a choice or not.

I believe that he didn't have a choice to be anything other that that which he was born to be.

As the great book says, and which dare I say, we have all heard, God sent his only son into the world, Jesus didn't send himself into the world, for if he did then how could he say "father".

God sent his only son into the world to be slaughtered so that others might follow in his footsteps.

The book of revelations includes all of the ascension process.

It came to be 60 years after jesus ascended to the father, indicating that god's message through the christ prior to his ascension was unfinished.

If the christs teaching was finished by his ascension, then why the book of revelations?

The book is there by jesus's will (having joined with the fathers will, through his ascension) detailing what will happen to all who choose to come to the father by their own choice, not by birth.

Jesus didn't have that choice, he was born to do it, it wasn't an option for him to anything other than what he did. That is why his life was a sacrifice. For he was meant to be slain so that he could be raised up, by gods power. So that his life would be a beacon through out all time for all to find the way to the father.

In the book of revelations, it speeks of those witnesses who display all manners of powers, being slain before they are raised up.

They have these powers by gods will, for they are meant to have these powers before they are raised up.

The difference between them and Jesus is written in the book. They are not to be laid in sepulchres, while Jesus was.

Jesus's life and the visions that he had from the father were for him so that he could have a perspective to speak from.

Jesus didn't have a book of revelations to go by.

However he did have visions of what was to come upon his own person prior to his ascension

In the book it talks of the witnesses having the gift of propghesy before being struck down by god, only to be raised again.

The book of revelations is the gift of the visions that are to come to anyone who seeks to come to the father in their life by their own choice. All that is written therein is what will and could befall anyone taking the path.

This book came to be after Jesus ascen

ded, not before.

And it came for the benefit of all who would choose to come to the father.

Does anybody get this? apart from me

I understand why I get it.

Do you understand why you don't?

You cant get to the father any other way than through the teachings of christ.

Before his ascension he was gods son. After his ascension he was with the father.

Can anyone see that there is a difference here?

The book of revelations is the story of the alpha omega and all that goes before during and after. and it came after his ascension, meaning that all he taught prior to his ascension, wasn't all that there was to share, he needed to ascend to the father, by death so that he could give us all the whole picture.

And even at that the picture he gave would hold no water untill we choose to follow the option of coming to the father first, before all other wordly pursuits.

For did not Jesus say "Ye are all gods", "be still and know that I am god"

He never said, "ye are gods of each other"

To those of you who would like to vent your fury, you are welcome to, but spare a thought for your heart, it serves none of us to raise ourselves against another.

in peace

Loclann

Greetings,

Regarding:

On the question of who do I think Jesus is. with out question the one born to lead, the one who didn't have a choice, and in being so brought into the world, laid the way for anyone who comes to his life/teaching to make the choice for themselves to come to the father.

All I can say is this:

1 John 2:18-20 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. 20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

1 John 2:21-25 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. 22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

1 John 4:1-3 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2 John 1:7-11 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. 9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

or perhaps

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Among us there are those who do not recognize Christ as God or the Messiah as foretold by the prophets. They acknowledge Him perhaps as a great and good teacher, but deny that He IS GOD.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[nebula]

What if the book, is an account of dreams and visions set to befall those who follow the path to the kingdom of heaven, first before making any effort to establish themselves in this world as being anyone or anything.

It says at the beginning that it is "the revelation of Jesus Christ."

Then there is no need to fear god or get upset.

"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom" - have you not heard? Have you not known?

For he said. First you must be reborn to enter the kingdom of heaven.

And that once you set out for it, you will enter the kingdom before you leave this life.

OK, I recognize the quote taken from John 3 - 'You must be born again."

Where does the second line come from?

And this book is account of a birth, a destruction and finally a rebirth, afterwhich death for the subject, holds no effect.

Umm . . . no.

What if that was the ultimate truth of what god was sharing.

Umm . . . no.

It's about Jesus.

Then why the greed, why the titles, why the jockying for higher ground and positioning amongst your fellow human beings.

Why "I am catholic" "I am jewish" "I am buddist" "I am muslim" "I am christian" "I am white" "I am asian"

Well, the jockeying for higher ground in general comes from man's greed within.

As for Christian vs Jew vs Buddhist vs Muslim - these are differences in faith grounded in differences of who God is and what He is about and how one is saved . . . and for the Christian, who Jesus is.

As for race - yes, it is sad there's prejudice here.

Why all the I am's in those who devote themselves to the teachings of God through christ.

Why?

It can only spell out that the point has been missed, entirely.

Seek first the kingdom of heaven, and all else shall come onto you

All else, is all else, not some or a bit here and a bit there, it's referring to everything

What is your answer?

Do you have one that opens your heart?

Beside the fact that I am not following your train of thought (no offense, but if you intend to teach, you need to work on your written expression skills a bit - how can you persuade someone if they don't undersand what you are saying?) -

if you want to argue that there shouldn't be divisions within the Body of Christ, I would agree.

But if you meant that other religions that do not confess Jesus as Lord and believe in His death and resurrection should be one with us - that goes against Scripture on all accounts.

Here's another question.

If we say we believe in christ, does this mean we believe in the historical account of his life, his acts

or does it mean we believe in what god taught and promised through Jesus.

Well, it's kind-of stupid to believe in one without the other.

Except . . . that second part needs to include the belief that Jesus is as much God and the Father.

If the latter, for the two are quite different then why do you fight and take offence.

Again, if you do not believe the former, the latter becomes pointless.

If you can fight with another, then your faith is brittle and not made of sturdier stuff.

Fights aren't a faith problem. It's a human nature problem.

Question the teachers, question with your hearts, and beware of anyone who sports a title, they serve two masters.

Paul commended the Bereans for searching the Scripture to verify if his words were in line with Scripture or not.

And the the Lord commands us to search our hearts and lay our hearts before Him.

As for titles . . . titles are needs we have to categorize things - including beliefs.

It's kind-of hard to go through life without bearing any titles for where you stand.