Ghosts & spirits

[Christ's Free Servant]

Does this young lady know that these spirits aren't the "spirits"of the dead?When we die,we go to either one of two places.....heaven or hell.These spirits are of Satan.I believe ghosts to be fallen angels...agents of the devil.If this young lady is saved,all she has to do is to rebuke them in the name of JESUS.If CHRIST dwells in one's heart,they can't be possesed by demons......greater is HE that's in you....

I told her all that, except for the part about rebuking them, only because I did not get the impression she wanted to get rid of them. She said she believed in them. And, she seemed perfectly comfortable talking with them. And, I'm not certain she is genuinely saved. The mere fact that when I questioned her about her relationship with the Lord, she avoided any question having to do with her listening to God's voice, it made me question whether or not she genuinely received Christ. I told her she was choosing to listen and talk with demons, but she was not listening to God. I told her that was not good and that I was deeply concerned.

If it were someone I knew was a believer who was struggling with attacks of the enemy, I would counsel her about how to deal with demons, but this was an entirely different situation. The spirits were not harming her or them in any obvious way, there was no indication they were leading any of them into sin, and in fact she said that her personal spirit "Mike" encouraged her to follow Christ. There was no indication they were consulting the spirits for advice. They just seemed to be co-habitating with them in peace.

So, before I talked with her and her household further about this, I wanted to first of all consult with my husband, because we need to do this together, and with God and to ask others who may have dealt with this. I'm not sure she accepted my explanation that I believed these were demons. She does have a history of witchcraft and drug use, so there may be things at play here that are beyond my realm of knowledge and experience. My husband and I want to make sure we understand what we are dealing with and how to deal with it before we pursue this any further. We are on vacation this week, so this kind of put a dent in our vacation, but Satan never goes on vacation, so we have to always be on our guard.

We are praying about this and we are seeking God's face and we are consulting others who have more experience with this than do we. They will not be here again for another week, so we have time to pray this through. I appreciate all the advice here. I will share it with my husband, and we will take it in prayer before God.

[Razberry]

I have some past experiences with this topic, when I thought spirits, fortune tellers and the like were harmless and even somewhat entertaining (as this girl you're speaking with might as well).

Many years ago, a friend and I went to a fortune teller on a somewhat regular basis. We thought this was really fun. We'd take cassette tapes and record the entire card-reading sessions so we wouldn't forget anything. The last time I went, she told me she saw the loss of a car, she saw me at the doors of a catholic hospital, and she saw a surprise around a new car. A few days later I totalled my car and the ambulance took me to a catholic hospital. My husband also said he was going to buy me a brand new car.

Do I now think this woman simply saw into the future? No. I think demons caused what happened and she was an agent of the demons. She obviously practiced witchcraft. There were little signs of this all over her house, which I ignored. I simply didn't consider anything "really evil" could come from it.

I also lived in a house where strange things happened. I used to say that if we didn't acknowledge our ghost on occasion, he'd get mad and make a nuisance of himself. We could be watching tv, with the remote lying on a table, and the tv would start changing channels. Slowly at first, then it would start going thru the channels faster than I thought possible. When I'd say, "All right, stop it!", it would stop. Sometimes I thought I'd see a person out of the corner of my eye, but when I turned, no one was there. I had a door that went out to the deck right beside my side of the bed, about 2.5' from the bed. One night, at 2:32 am, I distinctly heard a knock at this door. It woke me up. I got up and looked out the window of the door. No one was there. I got back in bed and was lying there thinking that maybe I had dreamt it. Suddenly, another loud rapping at the door. I got up and looked again. Nothing again. The next morning I was telling my teenage daughter about another visit from our ghost the night before. She asked what time it happened. I told her and she said that a shelf fell off her the wall in her room at exactly 2:32 am. It was weird.

The thing that put the scare into me was not long after, I allowed my daughter to have a party at our house. It was a warm night and several of her girlfriends were spending the night. One of them had brought a ouija board. They were sitting on the concrete outside playing with it. I had heard somewhere that they were evil, but I wasn't so sure I believed that. The girls that were playing with it started asking questions. Time and again, they kept getting what the spirits name was. (can't remember what tho.) Then it said something about killing somebody. The girls were insisting they were in no way moving that game piece and that it was moving on it's own. Then I remember it said one of the girls, Christy, would die. The girls were acting scared and to tell the truth, I got scared. I made them put it away then and really couldn't wait to get it out of my house. I really felt something evil at that point.

I feel I was really playing with fire and didn't realize it at the time. My 2 cents, for what it's worth (now that I've wisened up and read a little about these things)--I feel anytime you call on a spirit other that the Spirit of God, you're calling on demons, and they'll happily come running.

Btw, Christy did tragically die about 3 years later in a car accident. I doubt it had anything to do with that demon, but I sure did think about it when she passed.

[Candi770]

She sounds like a witch. If she will not except the truth you present, She needs to go. You need to prayerfully consider this. If you have weaker Christians present or those that have been abused and haven't had full healing/deliverance, those evil spirits she communicates with can affect them.

I've read where a few, people said they are a joke. Believe me, I know witches can infiltrate a church and pray against the leaders, etc. It won't affect those who are walking in the Spirit of God because he will warn them, but there agenda isn't to seek the truth. Some people are

easy targets, because they are backslidden or luke warm. If a leader allows them to stay, I would question his care of his Sheep.

The evil spirits are as real as the angels of light.

We as Christians should always remember that the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty through the pulling down of strongholds

I've witnessed to a witch, and in my personal prayer time, I asked the Lord to bind her spirit guide and let her see it for it's true nature-so she could be rid of it and choose so also. She accepted the Lord at a Church meeting, I'm not saying she didn't have a true conversion, but she had a dream that she was on a stage and this "Thing" that was her spirit guide was begging her to take him back. I think she was being totally tempted and she moved away.

Things can be done in the prayer closet, that can't be done while they are present.

As far as Ghosts, people's spirits go to hell or heaven. If you entertain demons them, they will come, if you rebuke them in the name of Jesus they will go.

If you play with fire, you will get burnt. Demons are real- Angels are real.

If we are Christians we walk in the light as Christ is in the Light. Light has nothing to do with darkness. And the fear (respect-reverance)of the Lord is to hate all evil.

IF you are seeking to become a Christian, most important is to renounce any involvement with the occult, ask the Lord to forgive you of this and all your sins and turn away from evil

and according to Romans 10:9-11 For if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved. As the Scriptures tell us, "Anyone who believes in him will not be disappointed."

It is important to rid your house of all idols or occultic items!!!

[Christ's Free Servant]

I am in the process of reading through the OT and NT passages dealing with spirits and ghosts. And, I am praying to God concerning this situation. These are some of my thoughts and questions so far:

In the OT & NT, but particularly in the OT, there are a lot of passages concerning spiritists or mediums who bring up the dead for the purpose of consulting with them. In the NT in particular, there are a lot of passages dealing with demonic possession and the authority we have in Christ to cast out demons. I understand all of that. But, here is my dilemma:

These people I am referring to do not seem to be possessed by demons, at least not that is obvious in any way at this point, and they are not bringing up the dead for the purpose of consulting with them, at least not to my knowledge. They appear to just be sensitive to the spirit world and are able to see and speak with and hear spirits/ghosts. So, I'm searching the scriptures to see where this falls in. My main concern was and still is that this young woman claims to be a recent convert, and yet she is able to see, hear and speak with these spirits/ghosts, and yet when asked about her hearing God's voice, she changed the subject. So, it sounds as though she is quite comfortable conversing with demons but avoids conversation concerning hearing from God. That is a BIG alarm to me! To me, it sounds as though they are listening to and are co-horting with demons, but they are not listening to God. So, I doubt that they could be true believers. I am compiling scriptures to show them about how God views such things, and my husband is also seeking God and counsel in this matter. We will most likely schedule an appointment to go to their home and talk with them about this.

Now, on the subject of God not giving me a scripture for the young woman, I have this thought:

[jamie]

Christs Free Servant....This person has opened herself up to demons either generationaly or otherwise.

I would also lay you odds that she is possessed, thats why she ignores you when you ask certain questions.(a spirit of deafness)

Remember, most spiritist will tell you they are christians and their source is from God.

A demons goal is to destroy a person, having demons running around your house isn't good no matter how you are interacting with them, they are filthy murderous swine, and if these people aren't seekng dliverance you need to warn them and let them GO!

You will be so weighted down and burdened by them until they will sap every ounce of joy you have.

They are playing around with a fire that will eventually consume them.

At best you warn them and intercede for them but you will soon find out, theres where you draw the line.

To be absent from the body isn't to be floating around in limbo....People go one place or another...Heaven or hell.

Demons mimic the dead and can appear as a deceased person. They are smart and cunning.

[Christ's Free Servant]

Christs Free Servant....This person has opened herself up to demons either generationaly or otherwise.

I would also lay you odds that she is possessed, thats why she ignores you when you ask certain questions.(a spirit of deafness)

Remember, most spiritist will tell you they are christians and their source is from God.

A demons goal is to destroy a person, having demons running around your house isn't good no matter how you are interacting with them, they are filthy murderous swine, and if these people aren't seekng dliverance you need to warn them and let them GO!

You will be so weighted down and burdened by them until they will sap every ounce of joy you have.

They are playing around with a fire that will eventually consume them.

At best you warn them and intercede for them but you will soon find out, theres where you draw the line.

To be absent from the body isn't to be floating around in limbo....People go one place or another...Heaven or hell.

Demons mimic the dead and can appear as a deceased person. They are smart and cunning.

Jamie,

Thank you for your advice. The Lord is teaching me and my husband much through this, since we have never had to encounter anything like this before. We are not unaware of Satan's practices or of his use of his demons. This was just a new one for me. I thank you and everyone who replied, because all of you are helping us to put this in perspective. I have been reading through all the passages in scripture, and I'm learning a lot. I agree, Jamie, with what you are saying. We have already seen evidence of this in these people's lives. They are all living off the government and don't seem to have any motivation towards doing anything productive. The man falls asleep through every bible study, and it is not because we are boring. We were beginning to wonder why he even bothers to come. Then, we had a problem with them within the group in stirring up some gossip, and then this. So, we are going to confront it. And, we will use tough love.

We know that God is Sovereign and nothing takes him by surprise. We know God has allowed this in our lives at this time to teach us how to respond to this kind of stuff. We believe in deliverance. We believe in the power of God and our power over demons through the name of Jesus Christ, and we will invoke the name of Jesus in claiming victory over this. But, like someone said, these people are choosing this way of life and they must make the choice to change. If they claim to be Christians and yet will not give up this practice, we believe we must not allow them at the bible study.

[Candi770]

Dear Christ's servant-

I came across someone who posted on WORTHY WELCOME under "Another intro from another newbie" Apr 12 2006 10:06am by amdntstr

She was in short a witch who became a christian. Maybe amdntstr could give you

some important info.

Blessing

[Christ's Free Servant]

Dear Christ's servant-

I came across someone who posted on WORTHY WELCOME under "Another intro from another newbie" Apr 12 2006 10:06am by amdntstr

She was in short a witch who became a christian. Maybe amdntstr could give you

some important info.

Blessing

Thank you! I'll look into that. I have a friend who is a minister who is going for his doctorate right now, so I asked him, and he gave me some very helpful information, too. This is what he said:

Sue,

Good questions. These issues are on the forefront now a days since occultism is becoming increasingly popular. A good book I would recommend to you, whose authors are pretty trustworthy, is Robert Dean jr., and Thomas Ice, What the Bible Teaches About Spiritual Warfare, 2d ed. (Grand Rapids: Kregel, 2001). These guys are weak on a few philosophical issues but do a good job in addressing spiritual warfare issues from Scripture. Some other related sources are Ron Rhodes and Norman Geisler. Both have written books about new-age stuff which at many points overlaps with what you are asking.

To answer your questions,

1) Scripture has only a few mentionings of "ghosts" on earth. You mentioned the most difficult case in Scripture--Saul and the Ghost of Samuel (1 Sam. 28). The other would be at the Transfiguration where Jesus in His glofied state communes with Moses and Elijah.

2) Of these few mentionings Scripture never condones communing with ghosts. Deut. 18: 9-13 is explicit that all forms of occultism are prohibited.

3) The case of Saul and the ghost of Samuel is a special case because the Medium herself was surprised that Samuel showed up. Apparently she was not used to her practices working like that. And Samuel showed up merely to condemn Saul. Samuel showed up rather because God summoned him to speak further condemnation on Saul. It wasn't as if Samuel was coerced into appearing because of the witches practices. So, we can say that this practice is condemned in Scripture and the result of it here is further condemnation on the participant.

4) In the case of the transfiguration that too is a special case since Jesus is allowed to do what He wants. Basically that mountaintop experience was a glimpse into heaven, not into a ghost-ridden earth. No seances were performed. None of the men sought to commune with the dead. No occultism was practiced there.

5) Scripture says a whole lot about spiritual warfare but hardly anything about ghosts. Scripture says a lot about demons and satanic influence, but next to nothing about disembodied spirits on earth (people without bodies). And we do know that Satan and his forces seek to steal, kill and destroy (John 10:10) and has a deceptively pleasant manner in doing so (2 Cor. 11:14 "as an angel of light").

6) Scripture in no way points to normative fellowship with ghosts either for believers or non-believers. Ghosts simply do not hang out on earth. Samuel, Moses and Elijah are the only exceptions and their cases are special since God summoned them (not men).

7) Therefore, those who think they are talking to ghosts are talking to demons disguised as ghosts to distract people from a right fascination with God and His righteousness. And being crafty little devils, we can expect them to play nice for a while till the person is more deeply committed and then they will begin to gradually wreak havoc. It is wrong to play around with ghosts. Scripture condemns communing with spirits or ghosts, calls us to pray to God alone (not even to good angels!), forbids seances, necromancy, spiritism, and all other forms of occult knowledge. The vibrating sword for example is a modified form of Ouija board similar to water-witching where you use a Y-shaped rod to find water.

Please understand that the key issue with occultism is not whether it works or not, or whether it is fun or fascinating or not, but whether it is right. It is wrong because it distracts us from the right path to knowledge and power through victory in Jesus. It staves off our hunger for God with fast-food type answers. And it is always more dangerous than it appears on the surface.

I have written further on some of these topics at http://www.midwestoutreach.org/02-Informat...rnal/index.html

I hope that helps.

In Christ,

John

[nebula]

Wow! This is quite a learning project the Lord has given you.

I asked the Lord to give me the words to say and nothing came, which is very unusual. The Lord always brings scripture to my mind, but it was blank. I wonder if the Lord did not want me talking to her from the word by myself. I've never dealt with anything like this before.

Here's my initial impression of this:

Have you heard of "jamming signals"? There's much about the spirit realm I am still learning myself, but one thing I have learned is that demons can mess with your head and even confuse your own spiritual perceptions. You can overcome this, but you have to take action to overcome it in order to get through this. But I think it possible the demons around her were "jamming your signal," so to speak.

You need to, in Jesus' name, command the demons to be silent, proclaim your authority in Jesus, cast off the demons from influencing your thoughts and perceptions, stuff like that. Pray (proclaim) the shield of faith around you before you speak to her, pray the shield over your home and even anoint the doors and windows. Basically, rebuke the "jamming."

Know what I mean?

[Christ's Free Servant]

Wow! This is quite a learning project the Lord has given you.

I asked the Lord to give me the words to say and nothing came, which is very unusual. The Lord always brings scripture to my mind, but it was blank. I wonder if the Lord did not want me talking to her from the word by myself. I've never dealt with anything like this before.

Here's my initial impression of this:

Have you heard of "jamming signals"? There's much about the spirit realm I am still learning myself, but one thing I have learned is that demons can mess with your head and even confuse your own spiritual perceptions. You can overcome this, but you have to take action to overcome it in order to get through this. But I think it possible the demons around her were "jamming your signal," so to speak.

You need to, in Jesus' name, command the demons to be silent, proclaim your authority in Jesus, cast off the demons from influencing your thoughts and perceptions, stuff like that. Pray (proclaim) the shield of faith around you before you speak to her, pray the shield over your home and even anoint the doors and windows. Basically, rebuke the "jamming."

Know what I mean?

Thank you! I appreciate your thoughts on this. Since I did not know this was coming, and expected just a casual conversation, I was unprepared, but generally that is not an issue. The Lord always gives me the words to say unless he wants me to remain silent, and sometimes he does. He says not to worry about what to say, that the words will be given us when we need them. I just figured he did not want me to say anything more than what I said at that moment. This is something that needs prayer and it needs preparation, I believe, and I also believe the Lord wanted my husband to be a part of this. We plan to talk with this household this week, so keep us in your prayers. We are doing much preparation for that time, and what you have shared is something we will also take to the Lord in prayer. Thanks so much!