What comes First

[germanJoy]

I never came to Christ, I don't think we have that ability.

Smalcald, we must come to Christ if we claim ourselves to be christians. If you don't, then you are doing it on your own by rejecting His invitation to come to Him, just as He had said:

COME TO ME, all who are weary and heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you, and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart; and YOU SHALL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS. For My yoke is easy, and My load is light.

If you are a christian who cannot come to Christ, whose yoke are you taking to pull the cart of your life? If you are a christian who cannot come to Christ, whose load are you bearing that makes you capable of going through life? If you are a christian who cannot come to Christ, where and how will your soul find rest?

WE NEED TO COME TO CHRIST. The Holy Spirit gives us the ability to do so. Trust Him and allow Him to do it for you.

Edited May 5, 2006 by germanJoy

[ayin jade]

Do you think when witnessing we need to get straight to the salvation part, or do you think we should take a little more time talking about the Christian life first?

Only one answer for me. We should witness as we are led by the Holy Spirit. It may well be that we should at times witness both ways to different people.

[Smalcald]

I never came to Christ, I don't think we have that ability.

Smalcald, we must come to Christ if we claim ourselves to be christians. If you don't, then you are doing it on your own by rejecting His invitation to come to Him, just as He had said:

COME TO ME, all who are weary and heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you, and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart; and YOU SHALL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS. For My yoke is easy, and My load is light.

If you are a christian who cannot come to Christ, whose yoke are you taking to pull the cart of your life? If you are a christian who cannot come to Christ, whose load are you bearing that makes you capable of going through life? If you are a christian who cannot come to Christ, where and how will your soul find rest?

WE NEED TO COME TO CHRIST. The Holy Spirit gives us the ability to do so. Trust Him and allow Him to do it for you.

Christ came to me, I had nothing to do with it, if I rely on myself I will fail, I rest in faith in Christ alone, not on my intentional efforts, my works.

[st. Worm]

Smalcald is correct. Unfortunately, comtemporary Christianity often becomes more about us than Christ. It becomes more about our "decision for Christ", our "inviting Jesus into our heart", or our "acceptance of Jesus", none of which have any basis in either the Bible or in the historic Christian faith. In other words, faith has become no longer a precious work of God given to us enabling us to believe but a good work of ours.

Just as in our culture and society, its all about us. Rick Warren says its not all about us but then he goes on to write all of the things we must, in his view, do to be a follower of Christ. What he ultimately does is make it all about us ironically. Instead of the purpose driven life, we need the forgiveness driven life. amen.

sw

[Smalcald]

Smalcald is correct. Unfortunately, comtemporary Christianity often becomes more about us than Christ. It becomes more about our "decision for Christ", our "inviting Jesus into our heart", or our "acceptance of Jesus", none of which have any basis in either the Bible or in the historic Christian faith. In other words, faith has become no longer a precious work of God given to us enabling us to believe but a good work of ours.

Just as in our culture and society, its all about us. Rick Warren says its not all about us but then he goes on to write all of the things we must, in his view, do to be a follower of Christ. What he ultimately does is make it all about us ironically. Instead of the purpose driven life, we need the forgiveness driven life. amen.

sw

Indeed, who has the works based theology today? It is rather ironic.

[Bolts]

Is your salvation the only reason to become a Christian.

As a non believer would you think it is kind of shallow to believe in God just to save your butt.

I saw in a thread just the other day someone that would not accept God for that excuse, because, obviously, all they know of God is if you dont believe in Him you go to hell.

With that in mind, believing in God for that reason, is, rightly, hypocritical.

Why should we accept God other than for our salvation and should we be using those examples and reasons when we witness?

Mike, it is not Gods will that any should be lost. People come to God for many reasons. Because our God is a faithful God, he will heal that particular area of need. Then after that, he will give us the choice - from our wholeness, as to whether we want to continue in relationship with him or not. He wants us of our own free will and not because we have to. He wants our obedience to be because we are willing to submit everything to him.

Personally, I feel that making an informed decision on salvation or anything else, is what God really wants from us.

We are a chosen generation

[tah]

Is your salvation the only reason to become a Christian.

As a non believer would you think it is kind of shallow to believe in God just to save your butt.

I saw in a thread just the other day someone that would not accept God for that excuse, because, obviously, all they know of God is if you dont believe in Him you go to hell.

With that in mind, believing in God for that reason, is, rightly, hypocritical.

Why should we accept God other than for our salvation and should we be using those examples and reasons when we witness?

Rom 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

When I am in that "place" where the goodness of God has lead me to "repentance" my heart and soul and mind and spirit are consumed by my own sin and I am not thinking about someone else..

God is dealing with ME at that moment in time..

Telliong someone if they do not repent or they are going to hell is a very valid statement..

If you are speaking to someone and you feel the Spirit of the Lord telling you to say that to them..

Do it...

I used the example of my mom for illustration that we need to always be ready to speak to someone about the truth ,we cannot go by our own idea of when they are conditioned enough or not..

Only the Lord knows that anyhow and we need to be ever in prayer as to His words for our mouths..

If I had prayed about the situation at the time instead of counting on my own understanding I believe the Lord could have given me His words for her..

and no God will not fail us if we are seeking Him...even if we fail each other in giving each other the Word of God...

[mike2]

Is your salvation the only reason to become a Christian.

As a non believer would you think it is kind of shallow to believe in God just to save your butt.

I saw in a thread just the other day someone that would not accept God for that excuse, because, obviously, all they know of God is if you dont believe in Him you go to hell.

With that in mind, believing in God for that reason, is, rightly, hypocritical.

Why should we accept God other than for our salvation and should we be using those examples and reasons when we witness?

Mike, it is not Gods will that any should be lost. People come to God for many reasons. Because our God is a faithful God, he will heal that particular area of need. Then after that, he will give us the choice - from our wholeness, as to whether we want to continue in relationship with him or not. He wants us of our own free will and not because we have to. He wants our obedience to be because we are willing to submit everything to him.

Personally, I feel that making an informed decision on salvation or anything else, is what God really wants from us.

We are a chosen generation

Amen

[Smalcald]

I am having a hard time with some of that language, and I think it might just be semantics.

But to me an informed decision would seem to imply that we have something to do with our salvation, we don't at all, we do nothing, totally zero, we are dead in trespasses. Meaning of course that we are no better than non-Christians in the eyes of the Lord when it comes to sin. We are however totally forgiven for Christ's sake alone, not by anything we have done thought or reasoned; we are simply recipients of His grace working through faith. The only thing we have the power to do is to push Christ away; anything more would be a works based idea.

Now, we are saved because Christ as you say chose us, a chosen generation, we can simply be thankful for that, that is all we can really do. Part of being thankful if we really believe it is all true (true faith), is that we would want to be obedient, from our heart. But even our obedience is something from the Holy Spirit, not our will, otherwise it would be a work, our obedience is never enough to earn anything from God, we are still filthy and rotten to the core, the flesh is still in us as long as we are living in this world in our bodies, thank God we have the mind of the Spirit implanted by the Holy Spirit and have the ability to began to be obedient.

If we go down the path of thinking that I made the decision to call Christ into my life, we have a big problem with pride sneaking into our spiritual life, and an even bigger problem with taking our eyes off Christ alone and what He has already done, meaning faith in Christ alone. I mean I see it in my Congregation every day, if I am honest, I see it in myself. People really actually think they are righteous and good and this somehow saves them, as if my puny attempts at obedience gets me some special place in the eye of God. They think that they are good because they decided to come to Christ (and this is in my own pride if I really admit to it), as if it was a good deal for Christ that they decided to accept Him, when in fact just the inverse is true, we are like worthless worms nothing more, Christ's compassion is just beyond words.

[st. Worm]

Smalcald says:

... when in fact just the inverse is true, we are like worthless worms nothing more, Christ's compassion is just beyond words.

SW:

Hey, I resemble that remark, my friend!

Seriously Smalcald, while we may be a chosen generation, many of the generation still wrongly believe that its their "acceptance" or choosing of Christ that causes their salvation. As you note, its God's acceptance of us for the sake of Christ that justifies and insures our safety from the wrath of God on the last day. It is not only Christ who justifies us but sanctifies us too. We contribute nothing from start to finish. Our "acceptance" of Jesus is worthless, just another filthy rag.

sw