Need Help

[suzanagimpel]

Unfortunately this issue is coming up in variety of congregations, UCC being one, but also in ELCA Lutheran, United Methodist, Episcopalian USA, Presbyterian USA, and I think several others.

I think the Open and Affirming movement (which is just code words for gay sexual activity is cool with us, as is any sexual activity as long as it is adult and consensual) is actually just an indicator of the deeper spiritual condition of some of these denominations, although many congregations within these denominations are indeed okay. The problem is the trend is in my opinion unstoppable. The slide has been going on since at least the 60's, I do think it has been prophesized about in scripture.

The basic problem is that these denominations do not accept Holy Scripture as the Word of God. At some basic level they deny the faith. They believe that the Word is open to modern literary and historic criticism, meaning they say the right things about the bible guiding them, but as long as it is "reasonable" in today's moral climate, as long as it does not offend anyone, as long as it is not exclusive. That sounds okay and intellectual and maybe good, but it denies any power of the Holy Spirit and it denies the Truth, it specifically ends up denying that Christ is the way the truth and the light and NO man comes to the Father except through Christ. For example as a Lutheran (not ELCA obviously), I know that the ELCA Lutheran Church believes that it is not really important to believe Christ was born of a Virgin it is an option, like a multiple choice sort of faith, if something bugs you don't believe it. Some Episcopalians reject whole parts of the Christian Creeds, including the physical resurrection of Christ, in fact one of their bishops has written a book promoting this belief, and has not been excommunicated.

So the gay issue is just an indicator of something far more troubling, and that is really a move away from Christianity and our basic faith. I doubt in fifty or one hundred years that we will recognize these denominations as Christian in any sense of what that word means today, they will be another faith, Jesus will be seen as a great spiritual leader and guide, but His true power will be denied, He will not be seen as Creator and Lord, this will be denied as it may offend some, which is exactly what Satan wants. Probably they will be much more akin to the Unitarian Universalists of today.

Now I am not saying leave them point blank, just be warned that any true believer will face an on-going uphill struggle within any of these denominations, particularly if you want to speak out, or if you have the audacity to use scripture as your guide in arguing your case. I also don

[Christian]

littlejoe,

There have been some beautiful and concise points made here by our fellow members. I think it's important to know that indeed there could be congregational exceptions to what is happening at UCC, but it is not likely. Such large "denominations" usually follow a mission statement, meant to be implemented by ALL their congregations. If they are not observing it at the present time, they will be eventually, or they cannot exist within that system.

You are right that all should be welcomed at a church, but only if they renounce their sin and repent for it. A Christian church simply cannot allow practicing deviates into it's body and ignore their sin, it would be hypocritical and against the very Word the church stands on.

God does not hate the sinner, He hates the sin....remember that.

Your discomfort at these preceedings may very well be the Holy Spirit within you prompting you to leave that congregation. Just something to think about.

Pray on it, ask for His help

Grace and peace to you brother

in His service

-CC-

[littlejoe]

Bumping to bury troll posts

Thanks again for all your help. This is just an update for you. I will no longer be part of the forum that has taken on this issue. I gave the opportunity for those who wished to change the subject, to announce it,after the service, that's when we take anouncements. Even though they assure me that it would happen it did not. sad. I know that there are some who will not agree with the ONA statement. For whatever reason they choose not to be at this forum. I like to think it is because they don't know the true subject we are taking on. However maybe this is why the people who promised me,decided not to tell the congreation. Who knows. The thing is I will return tuesday night and tell all in that room why I can no longer be a part of this. I have one more duty to do for that church, after I completed that I am done. I have been on the usher team a couple of weeks after I started worshipping there. It's my turn next week. I will finished what I promised. Then I shall leave that church and it's fellowship to them. Thanks again for all your help. Love in Christ littlejoe

[Guest jckduboise]

Bumping to bury troll posts

Thanks again for all your help. This is just an update for you. I will no longer be part of the forum that has taken on this issue. I gave the opportunity for those who wished to change the subject, to announce it,after the service, that's when we take anouncements. Even though they assure me that it would happen it did not. sad. I know that there are some who will not agree with the ONA statement. For whatever reason they choose not to be at this forum. I like to think it is because they don't know the true subject we are taking on. However maybe this is why the people who promised me,decided not to tell the congreation. Who knows. The thing is I will return tuesday night and tell all in that room why I can no longer be a part of this. I have one more duty to do for that church, after I completed that I am done. I have been on the usher team a couple of weeks after I started worshipping there. It's my turn next week. I will finished what I promised. Then I shall leave that church and it's fellowship to them. Thanks again for all your help. Love in Christ littlejoe

I am happy to see that you have taken so much time to seek the truth in this manner. I am sorry that they have disapointed you but you can rest assured that our Father never will.

In Christ and with Love

[Christian]

littlejoe,

God bless you for your patient and thorough process in dealing with this matter. Our Father will not take lightly the decision you have made to honor His scriptural wishes, and He will bless and reward you for it. I am quite sure He will find you a new church that will richly fulfill and edify you in your service of Christ our Lord.

Grace and peace to you brother

in His service

-CC-