Tongues what do you think? (MERGED TOPIC)

[Guest Daave]

IslandRose,

Thanks for the info, and I most heartedly agree that an "in house" discusson is by far the best. I have not been a part of worthy boards for all that long, but I do so enjoy the many topics there are to explore and be a part of.

Daave

[Leonard]

I understood it to mean that it was a real spoken language that the disciples used to speak when going to other lands where they didnt know the language.

Certainly this was and is a manifestation, however it does not appear to be the only manifestation. The Isaiah passage indicated an 'unknown language' and 'stammering lips' bring 'refreshing' from the Lord.

Also Daave: In the very early part of the modern Pentecostal movement, many people only spoke in tongues ONCE in their whole life! It really is a very interesting thing to study!

[Times]

Out of interest, how can anyone know that someone isn't just speaking gibberish and making it up? There's no actual way to prove it, expect to take their word.

[Mark777]

Hello everyone,

To those people who believe in "prayer languages" - a version of tongues - I would like to ask you to provide me with scriptural proof of such a thing. I am interested in as many passages as you can find.

I have been a Christian for twenty six years. God has asked me to do many things in my life. I believe that I have a close relationship with Him. But, I have never spoken in tongues or have been given a prayer language. As far as my own Scriptural study goes, I believe tongues are other earthly languages that God allows some to speak - that they ordinarily do not speak - for the purpose of witnessing about the things of God to unbelievers. Besides several vague verses about groanings and one verse about the language of angels I do not know of anything the Bible says about prayer languages. Maybe I have missed something. Please educate me. And thanks ahead of time.

Mark

[Guest Daave]

...I do not know of anything the Bible says about prayer languages.

Mark, the only scriptual refererances that I have ever heard given supporting a prayer language are these:

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

1Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

1Corinthians 14: 4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

Jude 20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

And probably 1Corinthians 14:2 and 14:4 would be the most compelling for those who would promote tongues as a prayer language.

The thing is, looking at the first verse of 1Corinthinans Paul is introducing the idea that tongues ISN'T where it's at.

1. Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

The context is to explain why tongues should not be the desire, that our desire should be that ye may prophesy.

You can see in the context of chapter 14, that although tongues are sponken of, they are subordinate to the subject actually being discussed and that is...that ye may prophesy.

The concluding statement made by Paul is this:

39. Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

40. Let all things be done decently and in order.

So I have to ask my self. Is Paul referring to those who were still alive and were a part of the original out pouring on the day of Pentecost, or is he referring to all who are in Christ.

When Paul makes this statement:

14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues; but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

The way that he says it implys that tongues is not a 100% occurance in the chruch, but that is O.K., he would prefer that you would prophesy anyway.

I am simply trying to remain texturally accurate, and understanding of what is being said.

I do not see a scriptural emphisis on tongues actually being a prayer language, I think it is more of an assumption than anything.

Daave

[Mark777]

Daave,

Thank you for your reply.

I feel Romans 8:26 is refering to something the Spirit of God does on our behalf. Because, after all it says, "...with groaning that cannot be uttered." And that it is "the Spirit" that is doing the groaning. This is what I mean by vagueness. This does not , at least to me, sound like a prayer language.

1 Corinthians sounds like my description above - unknown tongues are earthly languages spoken by believers that do not know that particular language. If I never heard of "prayer languages" I would never guess, from the text, that is what it meant. The tongues at Pentecost were earthly languages.

And the same with Jude 20. Praying in the Spirit is hardly a description of actually obtaining a prayer language.

I agree with you that the real use of tongues is the lesser gift. Have you noticed that not very many people claim the gift of love. (Harder to manifest and keep up.)

I have a problem with the prayer language version of tongues. Let me tell you a short story:

My wife and I were visited one night by a relative and several members of his Pentecostal church. One was the Pastor, who asked me if I had received the infilling of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in other tongues. I told him that I had not and he asked if they could pray that I receive it from the Lord. I said yes and they laid their hands on me and started to pray and speak in tongues. (Which to me sounded like gibberish.) They stoppped and looked at me like they were waiting for something. I shrugged my shoulders. The Pastor said that the problem was that Satan had control over my tongue and vocal cords for so long that I needed to exercise them by babbeling. They suggested that I should sit there and babbel until I was free. I asked them to leave.

I have looked for any evidence biblically for it just to give my relative some respect. But I am unconvinced and see no need for it, actually. I believe that if I needed it God would give it to me without all the shenanigans.

Thanks again for your reply.

Mark

Edited May 19, 2006 by Mark777

[Brandli5]

Out of interest, how can anyone know that someone isn't just speaking gibberish and making it up? There's no actual way to prove it, expect to take their word.

You're right, there is no way to acyually prove it. How can you be sure the person that says to you he is a Christian isn't just making it up. a lot of people call themselves Christian who in reality ae not. Does not the Bible say to try the spirits

[Leonard]

I believe that if I needed it God would give it to me without all the shenanigans.

Mark

Yes Mark, a lot of silliness gets passed off in every movement of God. Paul asks a series of rhetorical questions at one point: "Are all Apostles?" "Are all prophets?" "Do all work miracles?" EVERYBODY understands that the answer to every question is clearly "No," but when he then asks "Do all speak with tongues" some insist the answer ought to be "Yes!!!!"

Although I do believe in tongues (and I think you have failed to consider the Isaiah passage I cited, re: "line upon line......", I have to agree whole-heartedly with your final appraisal. All I EVER do is tell folks to loosen up, and be ready to receive, then lay hands on them and pray quietly. The rest is ENTIRELY up to God. He can gift that Believer in whatever way He knows is best!

[irishcowboy]

Praise God!!!

How did you guys first start speaking in tongues?

during a praise and worship session, there was a massive prayer time. I was skeptical about most of the people that has spoken, and had been seeking it, but this peticular day i was not seeking the Gifts, rather I was praying for a young lady with a heart condition. the next thing i know, it was a couple hours later and i found my self sitting on the floor ( was previously standing ) with my back against the pew, and i was babbling something that i did not understand....

since that day, it has been a constant reminder of how wonderful the Lord is. during that service, not only did the young lady recieve a healing, but I had also recieved a healing...

are tongues used today? yes... the Bible even tells us about the last days and how the Gifts of the Spirit will be working...

if a person discounts one of the Gifts of the Spirit, they might as well discount all of them and forget about asking for that healing... Tongues is just one of 9 gifts... it is also known as the initial sign of a person having the Holy Spirit in them...

I was skeptical about the Tongues thing for a long time, until one day (before i ever spoke in tongues) when the interpretation was given, and that was the same exact things going through my mind, so i started paying closer attention... and there was a couple more times that i was hearing the same thing in my mind as the speaker was saying, but before the speaker was saying it.... and one day ( again, before i ever spoke in tongues ) i kept hearing this same phrase over and over again after a message in tongues was given, and no one had gave the interpretation, finally i gave what was going through my mind, and more came as i let the first part came, and after that, a man came up and confirmed it. he said he had the word but was unable to release it.

every thing in the Bible is for today, God is the same God he was 10,000 years ago, as He is today, and as He will be 10,000 years from now...

the entire Word of God is still inforce today, that includes all the rules God has set before us...

if we cover the two major commandments, every other commandment that God has placed before us will be covered under the two....

mike

[st. Worm]

Quote:

..the entire Word of God is still inforce today, that includes all the rules God has set before us...

sw:

Don't mean to be sarcastic but does that mean we should put adulterous adults, non-obedient children and practicing homosexuals to death? Those were the rules.