SIN

[tsth]

Psalm 25:18 Look on my affliction and my pain, And forgive all my sins.

I have gone through affliction........that is where my life and the Lord intertwined. This is where I truly MET the Lord and became His betrothed. It was through great suffering that He spoke to me.

Psalm 22:24 For He has not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; Nor has He hidden His face from Him; But when He cried to Him, He heard.

I did not find comfort in the Lord all of my life, UNTIL.....I began to BELIEVE His WORD. I began to seek Him through His Word, to guide me through the pitfalls I had now found myself. He delivered me when I began to listen to Him and believe that His Word was true, for me. I realized that even though all that time in my life, I supposed that I had a good relationship with the Lord, it was VOID OF HIS WORD! I did not spend time with HIM. I have come to a very strong and special relationship with the Lord now, I know the difference. It is a great difference.

Psalm 119:50 This is my comfort in my affliction, For Your word has given me life.

Ps 119:92 - Unless Your law had been my delight, I would then have perished in my affliction

Isaiah 48:10 Behold, I have refined you, but not as silver; I have tested you in the furnace of affliction.

I have gone through much affliction because I would not surrender to the Lord's Authority. That is how I came to the point of crying out and realizing my sin before Him. I asked for mercy. He answered!

I have been involved in so much sin in my life, I can pretty much say that if I were to take the 10 commandments, with the exception of 1, I have broken them all. I know what sin is, and I know the joy of being set free! That is why I am so utterly consumed with setting others free too, by telling them the Truth. I think of Psalm 51 and Isaiah 61 today and know that these are the desires of the Lord.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[traveller]

Amen sis!

[sagz4Christ]

Romans Chapter 3

1 Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the benefit of circumcision? 2 Great in every respect. First of all, that they were entrusted with the oracles of God. 3 What then? If some did not believe, their unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness of God, will it? 4 May it never be! Rather, let God be found true, though every man be found a liar, as it is written, "THAT YOU MAY BE JUSTIFIED IN YOUR WORDS, AND PREVAIL WHEN YOU ARE JUDGED." 5 But if our unrighteousness demonstrates the righteousness of God, what shall we say? The God who inflicts wrath is not unrighteous, is He? (I am speaking in human terms.) 6 May it never be! For otherwise, how will God judge the world? 7 But if through my lie the truth of God abounded to His glory, why am I also still being judged as a sinner? 8 And why not say (as we are slanderously reported and as some claim that we say), "Let us do evil that good may come"? Their condemnation is just.

9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin; 10 as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;

11 THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS,

THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;

12 ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS;

THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD,

THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."

13 "THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN GRAVE,

WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING,"

"THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS";

14 "WHOSE MOUTH IS FULL OF CURSING AND BITTERNESS";

15 "THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD,

16 DESTRUCTION AND MISERY ARE IN THEIR PATHS,

17 AND THE PATH OF PEACE THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN."

18 "THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES."

19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

Justification by Faith

21 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; 25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; 26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

27 Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. 28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30 since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.

31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

Lest you think I am just stopping there;

Chapter 4:

Justification by Faith Evidenced in Old Testament

1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? "ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS." 4 Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. 5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, 6 just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

7 "BLESSED ARE THOSE WHOSE LAWLESS DEEDS HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN,

AND WHOSE SINS HAVE BEEN COVERED.

8 "BLESSED IS THE MAN WHOSE SIN THE LORD WILL NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT."

9 Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, "FAITH  WAS CREDITED TO ABRAHAM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS." 10 How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised; 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised.

13 For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if those who are of the Law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise is nullified; 15 for the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, there also is no violation.

16 For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, 17 (as it is written, "A FATHER OF MANY NATIONS HAVE I MADE YOU") in the presence of Him whom he believed, even God, who gives life to the dead and calls into being that which does not exist. 18 In hope against hope he believed, so that he might become a father of many nations according to that which had been spoken, "SO SHALL YOUR DESCENDANTS F85 BE." 19 Without becoming weak in faith he contemplated his own body, now as good as dead since he was about a hundred years old, and the deadness of Sarah's womb; 20 yet, with respect to the promise of God, he did not waver in unbelief but grew strong in faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully assured that what God had promised, He was able also to perform. 22 Therefore IT WAS ALSO CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS. 23 Now not for his sake only was it written that it was credited to him, 24 but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, as those who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25 He who was delivered over because of our transgressions, and was raised because of our justification.

I am not going to put it here, but Chapter 5 continues to expound on the SECURITY THROUGH FAITH ALONE!!! By God's GRACE ALONE!! Of the believer....TRUE believer..as has been stated in this thread already. It is not about what doctrine you believe..as has been stated already. It is about where you are with Christ right now....if you ain't where you need to be...GET THERE! You have a God that loves you!!

As Paul said...if it is by WORKS then faith is not needed. But we don't work to stay saved....get a ticket to heaven. Let me put it another way:

We don't persevere to ensure our salvation.

We work/persevere BECAUSE WE ARE ALREADY SAVED!! CAn Christ die more than once for our sins? Can He die more than once if we "fail" to persevere? Can a REALLY TRULY HONEST TO GOODNESS Christian NOT persevere?!?

Perseverence/Works is an OUTPOURING of our Faith.....as Abrahams circumcision was a SEAL of his righteousness....not a manditory thing to GET it!

I have said all I am going to about this subject. It is obvious that you are not willing think through this with an open mind. Once you said that you would change your thoughts based upon enough evidence....well, I repectfully say that you are actually not.

The minute you use works/perseverence as a means to keep or gain salvation which is a GIFT...then it becomes works. period.

'nuff said;

your servant in Christ;

~sagz

[tsth]

Well Alrighty Then! I think it is time to go back to the original question again..........

Can a professed Christian be saved AND involved in ongoing sin?

What do you think...........according to the Scriptures?

I'll be curious to see how anyone will answer and the discussion on this.

In His Love,

Suzanne

I keep stressing this, because we must examine ourselves. Can Christians be involved in sin "lifestyles" AND be true Christians?

1 Peter 4:17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?

In His Love,

Suzanne

[wordsower]

True christian by who's definition? The world's or God's?

I guess I have to say yes. Going back to David. He was pretty bad there, adultery and murder. He prayed a year later, Lord restore unto me the joy of my salvation.

I think that shows that he was still saved the whole time, he was just a miserable person in his sin until he finally broke down and repented and asked forgiveness.

One thing I'm thinking is that we deal in time. Saved at 15, drift away at 20, return at 30. But God is just seeing the whole picture and He knows where that person is before they ever get there. He knows who are His and who will choose Him before they do. So ultimately, He knows who is saved regardless. In that sense you are saved or not, no maybe.

Only God knows people's true hearts and we just can't look on the outward appearance and decide. We are responsible for speaking the truth, for correcting false doctrine, as Paul did again and again, for allowing the Spirit to have control of our lives and using us to fulfill the great plan, the big picture.

[wordsower]

One more thing.

When we get to heaven. If God were to ask us why He should allow us to be there. We surely aren't going to rattle off all of our good deeds and faithfulness and sanctification etc.....The only answer we have is the blood.

[endure4salvation]

Sagz,

Why do you exalt some parts of Scripture over other parts and completely ignore other Biblical truths?

[tsth]

All I can say Wordsower is, I am most certainly glad that someone was willing to preach the Truth about sin in my lifetime, otherwise I might be still sitting here wondering what on earth it is that the Christian I'm watching has, that I don't? I also might still be sitting here in a lifestyle of sin and wondering "Am I Saved?" Cause I sure was questioning it back then!

In His Love,

Suzanne

[sagz4Christ]

Sagz,

Why do you exalt some parts of Scripture over other parts and completely ignore other Biblical truths?

I have quoted from all over Scripture as you have.

It all boils down to who is right and who is wrong.

Something I don't think either of us is going to know for sure until we stand (or prostrate ourselves) in front of Christ.

I know what our Lord has impressed upon my heart.

obviously you have a different outlook.

I am not going to argue this anymore....I am through with contentions

I know what I believe and my belief is supported by Scripture/Biblical Truth/Word of God.

You believe the same thing.

We disagree.

Everyone here knows it.

Let it rest and let's get on with fellowship and edification of the saints.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

TSTH

I am sorry for my last explosion. I have posted one apology already tonight and this will make my second. Both to you and to endure/Jake.

This thread was meant to show the truth about sin and what it does. But during the course of the thread, it evolved into an arguement (even heated at times) about the security of the believer. For this I apologize. I am trying to learn to focus my thoughts on the actual conversation.

Jake, sorry again. There has got to be a better way of discussing this other than blasting each other's character or foundation in Christ. Unfortunately, both of us are 1) heardheaded and 2) very firm in our convictions.

This is a reciepe for disaster 9 times out of 10. We may do well to drop the subject as neither of us is willing to see things from the others point of view.

I am willing to make amends and pray that is the case with you.

*sigh*

I wonder what Jesus is thinking about the both of us right now.....

~sagz

[Guest dove2]

One more thing.

When we get to heaven. If God were to ask us why He should allow us to be there. We surely aren't going to rattle off all of our good deeds and faithfulness and sanctification etc.....The only answer we have is the blood.

So true and in my suitcase I am going to pack the robe of righteousness.