SIN

[wordsower]

Can we do a real - life scenario here?

My husband and I got "saved" 2 years ago.

I didn't have any real baggage, at least outward junk, I lived a good life prior to being saved according to the world's standards, in other words, I wasn't a junky or an alcohlic or whatever so I didn't have some big outward sign to show the world that I was "different".

I did however immediately feel a tremendous desire to study the bible, to not watch junk on TV, to pray, to watch my mouth....there was a change in me.

Now for my husband. The man had a terrible childhood, he has all sorts of problems, he was a terrible husband. I saw the man cry like a baby at the church, cry out to God for forgiveness, ask the Lord into his life. I know him and I know it was real.

2 years later I'm progressing in my walk and my husband is not. He goes to church, talks about the Lord some but cusses like a sailor, (not to me or the kids but with his co-workers) he takes presciption pills all day long, he is not one I would spot on the road and say he's a christian.

Under your definition he is not saved.

I have prayed specific prayers for him that God has specifically answered. Such as he has 2 kids from a previous marriage ( 17 and 18 years old) and wasn't spending much time with them so I prayed for God to impress upon him to do better with them. 2 days later he tells me he has the heaviest weight on him about his kids and he can't get them off of his mind. Since he has done more with them. I was so mad at him one day because he hurt his leg and wasn't working and I asked God, "What do you want me to do with this man?" He said, "lift him up." That has been one of the hardest things that God has asked me to do. I honestly do not want to lift him up, I want to kick him in the butt, but I have tried to think of opportunities to point out whatever I can find that he does well at.

Anyways..........my point is that this person is going to take a lot of time to straighten out. If he were in therapy it could be years. Granted therapy isn't God, but I'm saying I see some progress but it is slow and at times stagnant. Is he saved? Why would God call him to repentence and then let him wander back out in the wilderness? I just don't think God can let go of that little sheep when He finds it. You know sheep are not the smartest animals in the world, enough said.

If a person went up to an altar call with the intention of getting a ticket out of hell I can see that the motive is not pure and the repentance would not be there. But if they truly feel hopeless in a mountain of sin and see a need for a Savior and cry out to Him how can that be undone?

Sorry that was a lot of words.

[Guest Goldman01]

Suzanne-

I believe with my whole heart that when a person becomes a Christian, at that point they are in a saved state. If they were to die soon after, I believe they would have a home in heaven if they lived faithfully during that brief time. But, let's say they didn't die, and ten years down the road, this same person who became a Christian starts to dabble in sin and then makes that sin a part of their life, whatever that sin may be, they are lost unless they come to repentance. If they were to die in that sinful state, they would not have the reward of eternal life in Heaven. It's all about the way a person lives. Either they live a faithful Christian life or they don't.

A side note about true repentance. I believe that in some cases, true repentance isn't achieved until that person has made things right with God and the people they've wronged with that sin, especially when their sin has involved a second party. If they make the effort to try to make it up to the people they've hurt, then they have come full circle within the realm of true repentance. Even if the person they've sinned against doesn't forgive them, they have made the conscientious effort to make it right. I really think that's a part of repentance. And that's almost harder than turning away from the actual sin. It takes a real Christian to go that extra step to right the wrong.

[sagz4Christ]

I will tell you the brief version of my testimony.

I responded to an alter call in basic training in '93. After that, I found out I was possesed by a spirit that wanted to kill people. (Mind you, I have no recollection of any tim eI actually chased someone around a parking lot with a knife, but they say I did so I have to belive them. Shortly after that, I was exorsized (sp) and filled with Christ. (I remember being told after the demon left that I was empty now and needed my heart/house to be occupied with someone who would take care of me). I repented and believed.

This was about March of 94.

Shortly after that, I Started dating a girl from high school (A Christian) and she helped me start to grow. After another short while, she broke up with me siting this reason: "You are not where you should be in Christ." Like it was her job to judge my walk!! I was chrushed and told God that if that is what being a Christian was all about, I didn't want any part of it! I told Him that I could live my life better than He could live my life! I then proceeded to do things my way.....for 7 years.

Got into such things as drugs...illicit sex.....HUGE debt...some warrents....adultry......I even have an abortion in my past with a woman that WAS MARRIED!!

Was I saved during this time? If I would have died during those 7 years, would I have gone to heaven, or hell? Well, read on.....

My 7 year reign over my life ended with me losing my job, all my money (what little I had) and the basement of someones house I was living in. I was homeless, broke and without a job. If I could impress upon you the guilt I felt....I will put it this way, I felt estranged from my earthly family. I had utterly let them down. I could not even get the courage to call them!

Finally, and now I know it was only by God's will, I called them....they offered to put me up while I got back on my feet and through ALOT of agony, I accepted.

Since then, I have gotten just about out of debt, I am reunited with my family (and more importantly God) and on December 20th, God has seen fit to allow me the pleasure and honor of a wife!!!

For about a year after I rededicated my life to Christ, I agonized over the possibility that I was no longer His because of what I had done. This was to no avail because I read (and can't find the verse now) what Paul worte (I think) "....be anxious for nothing!" What a comfort that was!! My abandonment did not result in eternal death as it does in a unbelievers life for I was sealed and kept by the power and grace of God!! My destination was sure!! And that freed me to live whole-heartedly for the One who loved an unlovable me!!

Praise God!!!

To your question about your husband, I cannot tell you one way or the other. But I know for me and my heard head, it took about 7 years for the Truth to sink in. God deals with us in different ways. If He is telling you to keep lifting your husband up in prayer, well girl, I would be on my knees every chance I got!

The only one that can answer the question about his salvation is God and him. But his answer may be skewed by the way he is living right now. It does take time and mentoring!! If your church has a disciplship (sp) program, I would suggest you talk to your husband about joining it. He will be suprised at how many men of God there are that stumble with the language....and most especially their thought life.

I will pray as well for your husbands growth.

I hope I helped answer you question...though I really didn't answer it!

your servant in Christ

~Sagz

[traveller]

sags, thank you for sharing that! Praise God!

wordsower, you know that I can totally relate to your husband. I walked away too. Far far away. Now, what would have happened to me had I died in that condition, only our Father knows. But the point being, HE DIDN'T LEAVE ME THERE. He called me back. He persued me. He never left me and He made sure that I knew it too! It's about His power and His might and His Glory and His mercy and His Grace and His faithfulness and His plan and His workings and His way and His time.

Girlfriend, you keep lifting him up in prayer, and you keep being the child that God wants you to be, and you stay faithful in your walk. God will take care of your husband. I know others may slam this down, but I always go back to

John 10:25

27. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me;

28. and I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand.

29. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

30. I and the Father are one."

If your husband became one of His sheep when he was convicted, then he will again be brought into the fold.

And wordsower, you know that we all have a personal relationship witht the Lord. That means that we are convicted of different things, at different times, all in God's time. Our walk is different, and our function is different. The refinement and sanding and shaping is sometimes a slow process. For some, there is a lot of baggage to go through. A lot of things to unlearn.

Dont give up hope. Our Father loves him even more than you do, and He knows the cry in your heart.

[IslandRose]

Wordsower,

I don't know your husband's heart, but I do believe this. If he was truly repentant, God saved him. And if he was truly saved, God will bring him back. (Yep, I am one of those OSAS folk.) He may have to hit bottom before he looks up, though.

God keeps me on a short leash. I can't get too far before I feel a good jerk at my throat. I have known people who wandered far before God yanked them back. But if we are truly His, He will yank us back. But, if there is never a yank, then I would begin to wonder if there was ever any possession there at all.

You keep praying and being a good wife and testimony to him. That is your part. That rest is really between him and God.

IR

[wordsower]

I agree with you Traveller and Island Rose and Sagz, Thank you for your encouragement.

Goldman, I just can't go with your thoughts that living the faithful life has the bearing on our salvation. I just can't see it in scripture. I know that if you do not live the faithful life you will be miserable, constantly convicted by the Holy Sprit and you will not live the victorious life that Christ died to give you nor will you fulfill your purpose and receive your treasures in heaven. I still think you will be saved because it is not by might not by power, but by His Spirit that we change. Ultimately it is between the person and God. He says the Spirit bears witness that we are saved. We know.

I could not just go out and do anything thinking I'd still be saved, I could not hurt God like that and I have no desire to do the things of the "old man" I just can't speak for anyone else.

[Guest Goldman01]

Goldman, I just can't go with your thoughts that living the faithful life has the bearing on our salvation. I just can't see it in scripture. I know that if you do not live the faithful life you will be miserable, constantly convicted by the Holy Sprit and you will not live the victorious life that Christ died to give you nor will you fulfill your purpose and receive your treasures in heaven. I still think you will be saved because it is not by might not by power, but by His Spirit that we change. Ultimately it is between the person and God. He says the Spirit bears witness that we are saved. We know.

Matthew 24:9-13,

"9 "Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me.

10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other,

11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.

12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold,

13 but he who stands firm to the end will be saved."

Hebrews 3:12,13,

"12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;

13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called "Today," lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin."

Hebrews 6:4-6,

"4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,

5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,

6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame."

2 Peter 3:17,

"17 You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked;"

The above scriptures are all talking about falling away from the faith. They are warnings to the Christians to be on guard, to hold steadfastly, to beware. Why would the apostles warn them of this if it weren't possible to turn or fall away?

You must be faithful or else you are a hypocrite. Living a double life.

Matthew 24:50,51

"50 the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour which he does not know,

51 and will cut him in pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

You can see full well where hypocrites will be. I believe I'll live a faithful life, serving my Lord and my God. I'm not going to take any risks or chances at doing anything other than that.

I'm not saying you can never, ever sin or you will be cast into hell to burn forever. Romans 3:23,"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." I'm saying that you cannot live in sin and claim to be a Christian. If you sin, you must repent of that sin. Being faithful to God doesn't mean you have to be perfect. But you have to live a life which is pleasing and acceptable to God. Being found righteous, or blameless in the eyes of God.

Romans 2:13,

"13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous"

Romans 12:12

"12 Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is

[Guest shadow2b]

Wow, IR! Your 2 cents is worth a million dollars in my book!! Great post!! 

cheap-skate----

gotta be worth at least $10 million------ ----

[tsth]

I'm sure that many of you, can share the same testimony here, but I'd like to tell you that for myself, personally, I was one of those we are talking about. I had been saved as a child, but lived my adult life in total sin. Even though I remember very clearly that compelling calling of the Holy Spirit, as a child, and that I did respond, there was something that was missing as I grew into adulthood. I would invariably end up somehow, at some sort of revival, or church, where I'd look around and think......."What is it?" Why does it seem as though I'm on the outside looking in, when I see these other people, who are clearly experiencing something I am not?" I knew that I talked with God, I heard Him all the time, yet I knew in my heart that something just wasn't complete? It wasn't until I was about 32 that my husband and I went through the hardest time of our lives, that we also had been brought to our knees before God, we REALLY needed Him. it just so happened too, that we had moved, and entered into a church that Truly taught from the Word, the message was on the Word of God, ALL of it! Not just the warm and fuzzy stuff, it was about God's love, Our sin, and His sacrifice. We finally came to a place that preached the WHOLE WORD, not just the warm and fuzzy stuff...........the Truth. I finally came to a point as an adult that I realized that yes, I had heard God, had spoken to Him, many times throughout my whole life, and even knew that He had saved me on a continual basis throughout my whole mess of a life, but now I had come face to face with the reality of His Word............I had not heard ALL of it! I began to love the Lord, because He cared for me. He told me all about sin, (the life I had lived, reminds me of the woman at the well sometimes.......He told me everything I ever did!) He told me the good, the bad, and the ugly! I finally realized that all this time, I had NOT been following Him, but myself! I had finally come face to face with the LORD and MY LIFE! The 2 had collided and were held up together, for the 1st time. I finally came to the FULL realization of my SIN. I couldn't have done that at 10. I could have received the Lord, but I couldn't have realized my sin at 10. It took many years for me to come to that point.

Here's what I'm getting at.......I've lived on both sides. I've lived knowing God and deep in my heart knowing that there was something missing and that maybe I "might not" go to heaven. (I was not sure inside) And I have also lived on this side, understanding what sin is and how much I love the Lord for saving me from it. I know what it means to be cleansed from sin and to BE SURE that I have a true relationship with HIM. I would never go back to that place of unsurity.......I don't want to, I trust in Jesus to keep me safe as we live in this world together now. I do not want to be in this world without HIM ever again. So now, I go where He goes! I've done it my way.........it's no good. I've made my own plans, they don't work. I've lived a life of sin, it's no fun. I want to be "for real" for Jesus, because He was FOR REAL, for me. He saved me! Now I want to glorify Him in all that I do. I don't have to be unsure about salvation anymore. It's not about what I did 30 years ago, it's about RIGHT NOW, every minute of every day!

:il:

In His Love,

Suzanne

[endure4salvation]

Matthew 1:21

...you are to give Him the name Jesus, because He will save His people from their sins.

John 8:31-32, 34

If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free...I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.

2 Peter 1:9

But if anyone does not have [positive behavior traits consistent with Christianity], he is nearsighted and blind and has forgotten that he has been cleansed of his past sins.

Matthew 6:14-15

For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

Matthew 25:28,29

His master replied, "Take the talent from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents...Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Matthew 18:3

And [Jesus] said, "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like a little child, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

John 17:12

While I was with [the disciples] I protected them and kept them safe by that name You gave Me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.

James 5:19-20

My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, let him know, that he which converted the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and cover a multitude of sins.

Exodus 32:33

The LORD replied to Moses, 'whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot out of my book.'