What If Christianity Was A Hoax?

[uvn477]

Alright I see I'm getting stoned here despite what I have proclaimed about my faith. First of all I know the movie is fiction but it does make you think. It brings up certain questions that Christians should think about. All I'm saying is that one of the more interesting ones I've come across is "what would you do if Christianity were false?"

I'm glad that most Christians I've asked about this outside this forum could answer this honestly. Some said they would go off and try to find another religion which would bring them to the "true" God. Other said they'd abandon the notion of religion altogether. Others like me said they wouldn't change a thing.

These were the types of answers I was seeking. Not a bunch of criticism about "even pondering this hypothetically" or "why I even went to see the movie if I were a Christian". All I wanted to know was what other Christians would do. It's not a sin so I'd appreciate people stop judging me.

And I'd like to answer to answer some of the questions elkieDannsa' Air An Drochaid had asked. You say we need to counter things like this with "factual Historical Christ and true teaching." But how are we to do that when we are blind to the enemies tactics? Go see the movie and then know what the enemy is using. You can't really say that Christians shouldn't see the movie because it is blasphemous to Christ. If you watch 90 percent of the movies out there, its all blasphemous to Christ in one form or another.

I think people are not seeing the word "hypothetical" or not getting it altogether in my question. Some people keep giving me answers like "even if Christianity was said to be a hoax it would be proven otherwise later." I'm asking a question "hypothetically". Which means it doesn't have to stay in the bounds of real things. So please stop answering my question like that.

[apothanein kerdos]

I can't believe christianity is so weak that it's worried a movie will bring it down, but than again most Christians don't know much about their religion.

I figured that someone who believes in archaic doctrines based upon Gnostic thoughts, such as a denial of the Trinity, would be singing the praises of such a movie.

[uvn477]

"Can any of you so called Christians find anywhere in the Bible that Jesus said anything about trinity, just think about it and see that the trinity is false, your making God in to 3 things which is blasphamy."

Jesus did not use the term trinity. In fact, the word "trinity" was derived later on however, to say that early church fathers never believed Jesus was God is illogical. During meetings of churches, the majority of churches always held the belief of the divinity of Jesus. The one or two churches which did not were seen as heretics. You can research it yourself if you do not believe me. In fact, I'll explain more of this if you wish. Also, Jesus himself did say that he indeed was God although not as ourtight as that. Some things in the Bible just do not make sense unless the belief that the "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one" exists.

John 1:1-5

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. ...The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Hebrews 1:1-9

This passage is a bit long so I'll let you look it up yourself. And for the sake of space I'll move onto smaller verses.

John 10:30

I and the Father are one.

John 12:44-45

Then Jesus cried out, "When a man believes in me, he does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. When he looks at me, he sees the one who sent me."

Romans 9:5

Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.

Titus 2:13

While we wait for the blessed hope, the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

Now let's turn our attention to the Holy Spirit. The trinity is not proven unless the Holy Spirit is said to be one with God.

Acts 5:3-4

Then Peter said, "Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled you heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit... You have lied not to men but to God."

Psalm 139:7-10

Where can I go from your Spirit? Where can I flee from your presence? If I go up to the heavens, you are there..."

1 Corinthians 2:10-11

The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

Genesis 1:2

Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

Job 33:4

The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life.

2 Corinthians 3:18

And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

These Bible verses were provided with the help of Professor Larry Poston in Nyack College. As you can see, there is overwhelming evidence in the Bible that the trinity does indeed exist. There are things we just can't explain if it weren't true. I have heard arguments that Jesus saying "he and the Father are one" is nothing special. That belief makes us all one with God. But could you imagine me saying "If you look at me, you are seeing the Father." Or if I said, "I have made you and the Almighty has given you life." I would get stoned in record time.

I hope this gives everyone an insight as to the validity of the trinity. The trinity is not blasphemous. The unbelief of it is. You are taking God and degrading him to the standard of man.

[Guest TrinityisFalse]

I can't believe christianity is so weak that it's worried a movie will bring it down, but than again most Christians don't know much about their religion.

I figured that someone who believes in archaic doctrines based upon Gnostic thoughts, such as a denial of the Trinity, would be singing the praises of such a movie.

Actually everyone knows that the movie is fiction where do you see praise of the movie in my post. I don't believe in archaic doctrines I believe in truth, you can act all high and mighty but no one has responded to my post of how the trinity is false and made up by man, name one instance where Jesus said he was God, and find a page in the new testament that talks about trinity you can't because there is none, I'm sure that I have made some of you christians think about your polytheistic beliefs , seeing that most of you are silent you have no proof of your polytheistic religion. I'll make it simple for everyone here 3= multiple= polytheistic= your religion, 1=one true God= monotheistic.

May you be guided to enlightenment, to the truth of one God in Islam.

Edited June 2, 2006 by TrinityisFalse

[Guest Sunshine & Smiles]

What if?

My grandmother's favorite phrase and (she was a devout alcoholic) was this: If , 'if' weren't in the road, we'd all be millionaires. LOL

What if Christianity were a Hoax?

Let me answer a question With one.

What is the very WORST thing that could happen? If we are ok with that senario, then we can cope with just about any opportunity that came our way and we could switch gears without overlap but with clarity and turn a bad decision into a learning game.

There are many reasons in the world today to doubt the credibility of All Man Made Religion.

For me, the choice is quite simple. First, which 'religion' offers an escape for mankind from everlasting pain, death, etc? Not too many. Most other folks' gods are dead or near death. While a great many offer good morals, integrity and you can find wonderfully honest people living abundant lives, they will still probably die, or 'in some beliefs', be re-incarnated. While I have no proof personally that reincarnation exists, I chose for my life to Believe in the one faith that offers a 'win-win' situation.

I figure this, I have Everything to Gain by believing in God and his Son who offered an escape from eternal damnation, Everything to Loose if I do not believe. It was a simple decision really.

Some people will get sore buttocks from sitting upon a fence wasting life away 'wondering'. Do the research, look into what a great many religions offer, then look at Christianity. The one constant thing is that we have a God who loves us Unconditionally, who made available Forgiveness whether or not we deserved it. He gave us second chances.

It was an easy decision for me, but it doesn't stop me from finding out what other people believe so I can find some value in it, and then to be educated in how to 'discuss my God vs their god'. I find history fascinating in general. For instance, I have Cherokee ancestors, I've always wondered about the gods they worshipped, and the teachings. Many are so parallel with Christianity today. Anyway -- Believing in Jesus Christ as the only begotten Son of God, being a joint-heir with him, etc. These were basis for my decision as to which God I would worship.

I too saw the DaVinci code, for me it was a great work of FICTION, it didn't cause me to doubt or second guess what I've learned about God. Even if Jesus had of married and had a child, it would not have changed the Grand Master Plan God had. I would of been happy for him.

Blessings

Sunshine

Edited June 2, 2006 by Sunshine & Smiles

[Rober H]

uvn477,

Don't be so defensive. You asked a hypothetical question and didn't care some of the answers.

I don't think aswering fiction with fiction in this case has any merit.

I don't see any dishonesty in that.

Christianity isn't false and there are better things to think about.

Philippians 4:8-9 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.

This is a quote from the author of the Da Vinci "Con".

From:

http://www.av1611.org/davinci.html

Before someone protests, "Chill out. It

[uvn477]

I have to apologize to everyone because of my earlier post. I didn't mean to come out as so defensive. I just didn't expect the backlash I received from what I figured as a fun type of question. I had absolutely no problems discussing this topic with my other Christian friends and it was interesting to see what Christians would do if it weren't for Jesus. I just didn't expect to offend so many people with this question and have my own faith questioned. For the record, I am a Christian as many of you know and nothing can make me doubt my faith. I only mentioned the movie because it was what sparked this question with my friends. Maybe that was wrong on my part but I do a lot of dumb things. So once again I apologize to whoever I might have offended.

[elkieDannsa' Air An Drochaid]

Dear unv,

I said I was NOT judging you and I did try to answer and simply asked you a question also. I said I was not judging you so you would not think I was saying that, because i simply was not saying that.

I did wonder why you would see that movie sincerely, it IS an honest question.

I am sorry you still took it wrong and that I even answered that now.

You imply that no one on this board has answered honestly.

I appreciate you appology. Please know that it was WHAT you said, not about YOU personally at all.

Some things invite herritic speculation. I believe that movie does exactly that!

Now, apart from that, just to question is this real, of course, I think any thinking person ahs thought that out.

TO be more exacting, I would not change a thing if it weern't because it is the best awy to treat other human beings in love , But, I can say along with Robert H thatI should not answer this question because it is just not edifying.

There are many ways to prove it is real. It was along with the context of this movie thst I believe it is just to bring unedifying doubts taht are not even founded with any accurate info to help see that is IS true that JEsus is GOd. One would have to suspend all intellient thinking and historical eveidence to deny the Bible it True.

I would like to say that I don't have to go watch and support fianicialy or in any other way this movie to know what it is about or the subject at hand. I know about it and I can help others and already have whom have asked me because of this movie.

Yes, I am opposed to seeing this movie and unashamed of that!

Of course, I have asked my self if my beliefs about Christ are true! That is not exactly the question you asked here.

Of course Christ has proved true and the Bible and the teachings of trinity are true and Biblical.

To the one called falsec.

It is sorry that this has invited herritic comment. GOd The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit IS ONE GOD. Not three gods in one, not 1/3 gods . But, the Three Persons of OneGod are expressed all throughout scripture.

To the false statements of some here, I would like to say, You have been lied to! And need to check that you read REAL sources not misquoted and inaccurate sources. Both Bibles that are not changed and not false history.

The Bible teaches Trinity. The "word" trinity is not in there..however, the teaching is in there and in many places! Just as the word theocratic is not in there , it is also something about teaching implied.

Trinity is actually proven and that can be done with a Bible. The early church DID teach the Trinity from the get go!

Christ is the I AM, even in REV22 you can see, he says He is the ALpha and the Omegs, the one who was dead and is living. He is GOd and was GOd inthe flesh, who died and rose again and any that have the SOn have the Father. He is salvation! He is the Truth, the Way and the Life! Not some manmade teachings against Christ that deny him. You might wantt to look up arianism and be surprised to find it is not about the tri UNITY of God.

Constantine had nothing to do with the formulation of the Trinity teaching. He simple called Christians together to take time to write out the already in teaching and beliefs into writing. and to refute any false antiDiety teachings against the True GOd. He didn't actually have anything whatsoever with the results in any way or form.

I hope you will look up some real history and Bible reading. You may want to see what the Bible really says, what the diciples of the Aposltes said, and the students of the diciples also and some history from other sources.

GOD can handle any of your questions, talk to Him and don't be afraid of finding the truth, anyone who limits your research is trying to fool you/

http://www.freeminds.org can help you, too with info. go look online, why are you considering hearsay? There are facts you have not yet considered.

For saying Trinity is false, in JOHN1, the WOrd is GOd, if you got "a god..you have TWO gods, is then the Word a false god or true GOd?

You cant have it both ways. there are MANY other scriptures to help you learn Who JEsus is . We are called to be witnesses of CHRIST. CHRISTians. HE is the express image of GOd, HE is and proved to be GOD. GOd has revealed HImself in the Father The Son and The Holy SPirit.

YOU cant say the Holy SPIrit is an energy etc, HE can be grieved, teach assure. HE is Person, too.

JESUS IS LORD Is the first hymn, I agree JESUS IS LORD.

elkie

[nebula]

I'm sure that I have made some of you christians think about your polytheistic beliefs , seeing that most of you are silent you have no proof of your polytheistic religion.

Nope - silent because you completely went OFF TOPIC!

Also - we aren't polytheists. You need to understand what the "three in one" means.

**

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. . . .

[apothanein kerdos]

I was gonna say, just because I don't understand the Trinity doesn't mean it's not true. For instance, it deals with God's ontology...the reality in which He "exists" (it's hard for me to say that God exists within a reality....more like the reality of God). His ontology is higher than ours and beyond our comprehension because He is the creator and we are the created. We cannot possibly understand how He opperates, thus we cannot possibly understand the Trinity.

Regardless, I have studied the history, looked at it in Greek, had others help me with the Hebrew, read the scriptures....I'm 100% positive that God is Trinity.