What Profit?

[Rober H]

No person can be saved without believing the gospel.

This is the issue.

Salvation is believing that the finished work of Christ on the cross saves us.

A person can do all the good works he or she wants and although that is commendable their good works cannot save them.

"What profit a man if he gains the whole world and loses his soul?"

This is the subject. It isn't about some one's pet peeves against organized religion.

An non-believing Hindu cannot get into heaven. I don't care what color a person is I don't care what denomination a person belongs to. It doesn't matter if they do good works till the cows come home. They are not saved unless they believe the gospel of grace.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

[Rober H]

The child writes: thank you for clearing that up. you ranted again

.

I shouldn't have to clear up your slanderous accusation that I am a racist.

I shouldn't have to ask a person not to put words in my mouth.

Should I?

Edited June 9, 2006 by Rober H

[thechild]

The child writes: thank you for clearing that up. you ranted again

.

I shouldn't have to clear up your slanderous accusation that I am a racist.

I shouln't have to ask a person not to put words in my mouth.

Should I?

like the rest of us, you probably do and say a lot of things you shouldnt.

i asked questions based upon the impressions you were giving me. if you are above reproach, dont get mad, just say so.

what about the slanderous accusations leveled at me on these boards? and they were affirmations, not questions.

oh well, orwell.

[Rober H]

The false teaching that those who do good works have a direct path to heaven without Christ has left a devastating legacy. Mother Teresa's beliefs and teachings had an impact.

This is a quote from Sister Ann a nun who worked with Mother Teresa's Missionaries of Charity in Kathmandu.

The following quote is and excerpt from Way of Life Literature by David Cloud http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/motherteresassuccessor.htm

The complete interview with Sister Ann is reprinted in the book Evangelicals and Rome, which is available from Way of Life Literature. Following is a brief excerpt:

BRO. CLOUD: Do you believe if they [the Hindus at Pashupati] die believing in Shiva or in Ram [Hindu gods] they will go to heaven?

ANN: Yes, that is their faith. My own faith will lead me to my God, no? So if they have believed in their god very strongly, if they have faith, surely they will be saved

.

Good works fame and popularity with the "spiritual community" will not give a person a direct path into heaven.

Mark 8:36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

Giving a person a clean bed, food and medical attention is a good thing.

Helping unsaved people to be "better" Hindus and Buddhists etc. is not.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

1 John 5:11-12 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

Mark 16:15-16 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

[thechild]

Mark 16:15-16 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

question. certainly there have been people who have lived and died and never heard the gospel(your definition). since they never had the opportunity to believe not, are they still damned?

[Rober H]

Mark 16:15-16 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

question. certainly there have been people who have lived and died and never heard the gospel(your definition). since they never had the opportunity to believe not, are they still damned?

None of us including those who have not heard of Jesus or the gospel have been capable of keeping keep their own morals and standards. No one has kept God's.

Romans 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

How God deals with the sins of those who haven't heard the gospel is His concern, not ours. There are many people who have heard and still reject the gospel.

I don't have my own definition of the gospel.

You don't have the problem of having not heard. That should be your concern...

The bible is very clear.

Those who are not saved are children of wrath.

Those of us who believe the bible and don't create Jesus in our image and our likeness understand that.

Ephesians 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Not knowing the gospel will not cut it...

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

I know I am being "set up here". The next question should be "what about the people who were born berfore Christ was crucified what about them?".

Edited June 10, 2006 by Rober H

[Rober H]

Nothing is more important than understanding the following

Mark 8:36-37 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

What Jesus did for us

Jesus Christ died for our sins. He paid the price that we could never pay. He is eternal and perfect. We are finite and corrupt. God became a man to make atonement for us.

Isaiah 53:4-6

Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Through Him we have redemption and can KNOW without a doubt we are saved.

"In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace"

(Eph. 1:7)

"Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins"

(Acts 13:38)

"To Him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins"

(Acts 10:43)

Jesus died for us while we were yet in bondage and rebellion.

"But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us"

(Rom. 5:8)

"In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins"

(1 John 4:9,10)

"For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly"

(Romans 5:6)

"For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God"

(1 Pet. 3:18)

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. 1John 5:13

Click here on how to be saved

http://www.fundamentalbiblechurch.org/Tracts/fbconsdr.htm

There is a reward beyond our comprehension for those who love our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

Edited June 10, 2006 by Rober H

[thechild]

robert:

"Mark 8:36-37 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?"

what have you ponied up, robert?

[Smalcald]

Well I am not going to cut down Mother Theresa, just because she didn't do enough to save Hindu's. I have never taken care of any indigent people who were dying, who am I to say she didn't do it right?

Mother Teresa taught people to be "better Hindu's" etc. That is the issue. A Christian who loves the bible and believes the gospel should be able to see the problem with that.

Jesus seemed to think this was an issue...

Mark 8:36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

A Christian should at least give someone the opportunity to hear the gospel.

Mark 16:15-16 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

I don't know... Maybe you don't think the eternal destiny of a persons soul is very important.

I have never taken the time or effort to speak to a dying indigent Hindu in India, let alone tried to take care of one, in fact I have not tried it in the US either, so Mother Theresa is already one up on me. Even if she converted only ONE Hindu in her entire ministry, she is one up on me. The fact is though, Mother Theresa brought many thousands if not millions of young people in the West and all over the globe to a saving faith in Jesus Christ by her witness, by shining the light of love to those who could not return that love, she was an example.

After saying that, she was wrong on some things, she was wrong about their being the possibility of any other path to salvation, if that is really what she said. I think there are many people who are wrong about doctrine, but who show the love of Christ in their lives, and have a personnel faith in Christ which Mother Theresa indeed publicly proclaimed that she did. Some are not called to evangelize in that way, some are called to simply live lives of love and peace, and this itself proclaims the risen Christ. Did anyone doubt that Mother Theresa was a Christian who believed in Christ as her Savior? No they didn't, thus by her actions she showed what a Christian who really sacrificed their lives for others could look like and do that in itself brings people to Christ. Did you know that there are more Christians in India, than the population of the entire state of California.

Remember what James tells us, it is meaningless to say "love the Lord by happy and go on your way", to someone who is starving. But like I said I do disagree with some of the things Mother Theresa said. She was not perfect at all, in fact she was just another sinful human being like the rest of us, justified in the eyes of God only through what was done by Christ and her faith in Christ alone.

[EricH]

the problem is equating jesus with a certain style of orthodox christianity. and yes, it is religious bigotry. did jesus tell the roman captain, "hey man, id like to heal your daughter but darn, you worship idols and the human known as ceasar. lets take care of that, shall we, and then get back to me on tuesday?"

A couple of issues here.

1. Jesus did not heal a centurion's daughter. He healed the sevant of a centurion. He healed Jairus' daughter who was Jewish.

2. I don't think I equated any particular denomination as having a corner on truth. What I stated is that Jesus is the only way to the Father. I guess my question to you is do you believe that or not?

3. Jesus offered healing just as he offers salvation. It is on His terms. If the centurion would have refused Jesus' offer, or not been there to hear it, HIs servant would not have been healed. The condition on the healing was that he came to Jesus. That is the same condition on our salvation

we all are different and we all have to start from somewhere. that somewhere is where we are at. we dont start by trying to get where you are at so we then qualify for salvation. if you havent heard, there is no qualification other than believing on jesus and following him. i would say anybody in the world could do that if that was their choice, no matter who they are or where they live or what they were taught growing up. its called being born again.

Not sure what your point is here. All I stated is that the idea that Jesus is the only way to the Father began with Him, not us. You seem to have another issue that you are trying to read into what I say.

so many times i have asked christians, what commandment of jesus have you obeyed lately and what was the result? gues what the answer is, to a tee? they say they have loved other people. they give no specifics. thats because they generally have no specifics. they are not looking to deliberately obey jesus. they have been told by their leadership that there is nothing they can do to earn salvation and this gets translated into "i dont have to do anything". nothing could be farther from the truth.

Seems like you are confused here. We cannot earn our salvation. It is by grace through faith. We are called to a life of obedience after our salvation. Salvation is what makes obedience possible. If you are trusting in your obedience to earn favor with God in terms of your salvation, you are following what Paul called "another gospel"

so you can condemn whoever you want bowing at a shinto shrine in japan or praying to some stick figure in a hut in africa or bowing at a statue of mary in the vatican, but jesus died for them. their sins are already forgiven. they dont have to perish simply because of their ignorance, or that of their parents. and there is only one thing that they need from us as followers of christ - to be loved. religious slavery is not love.

I am not condemning anyone. According to Jesus, we all stand condemned already:

He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 3:18 NASB

The entire world is under a sentence of judgement due to sin. And the judgement is that men love darkeness rather than the light (John 3:19). Jesus came to resuce people from this judgment, but according to Jesus, they must believe in order to take advantage of this offer.

read the parable ogf the good samaritan again and tell me what is important about it. was there one attempt to convert the victim? if not, then why? in fact, why did jesus not convert a soul? he called individuals and they followed. if you think he does things any differently today, then you truly are following someone or something else besides Him. He has always been and always will be the same.

Actually it was impossible for a person to "convert" until after Jesus had died and risen. So your point is not a good one. The parable of the good samaritan is not a salvation parable. It describes those who truly love their neighbors.