Demons

[Vickilynn]

When someone uses the word "possession" it shows they know not whereof they speak.

LT

Shalom LT,

Don't be silly. I'm talking about Scripture. You want to argue terminology because you cannot produce ONE Scripture to prove that demons indwell Christians.

You can call it what you want, makes no difference to me. The point is, a demon CANNOT indwell a Christian. If you want to refute that, do it by Scripture not silly semantics.

[larryt]

When someone uses the word "possession" it shows they know not whereof they speak.

LT

Shalom LT,

Don't be silly. I'm talking about Scripture. You want to argue terminology because you cannot produce ONE Scripture to prove that demons indwell Christians.

You can call it what you want, makes no difference to me. The point is, a demon CANNOT indwell a Christian. If you want to refute that, do it by Scripture not silly semantics.

I am not being silly.

There some thing in the scripture that are not directly spelled out but are in fact true.

Where is the word trinity in the bible? The triune God is everywhere to be seen but not to those that have not eyes to see.

Jesus showed us that there are demons in people. Can we agree on this?

He also said, These sign shall follow them that believe, in my name they shall cast out demons......

I believe this and have cast them out of people. All the people that have had demons cast out of them were believers. I had them cast out of me.

Are you saying that I am not a believer? Or that I never had any demons in me? and on what do you base your answers to these questions?

LT

[Vickilynn]

I am not being silly.

There some thing in the scripture that are not directly spelled out but are in fact true.

Where is the word trinity in the bible? The triune God is everywhere to be seen but not to those that have not eyes to see.

Shalom Larry,

You are arguing MY argument for me! And yes, you are being silly about semantics. You made a false statement about the terminology of "Possession", saying that someone who used that tern didn't know what they were talking about. That is ridiculous. And now, you come back and prove my point again, by using Trinity. The same as with the Trinity (which is not in the Bible) the term "possession" is not, but the meaning is. That's why you are being silly by making an issue of the term "possession." Man, you like to go in circles.

Jesus showed us that there are demons in people. Can we agree on this?

The Scriptures say there are demons in UNbelievers. NEVER Christians.

He also said, These sign shall follow them that believe, in my name they shall cast out demons...... I believe this and have cast them out of people.

Yep, and what about the rest of that verse...picking up snakes and drinking poison. How much of this have you done?You can't take part of the Scriptures and ignore the rest. Do you also lay hands on the sick and see them recover? Do you also raise the dead?

Mark 16

15And he said to them, "Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel tothe whole creation. 16) Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them;(AN) they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover."

All the people that have had demons cast out of them were believers.

Not true according to the Scriptures. I'm sure you believe this, but I'd rather believe the Scriptures, thank you.

I had them cast out of me.

Are you saying that I am not a believer? Or that I never had any demons in me?

I don't know if you /were/are truly a Believer, only G-d knows. Or whether if you were an unbeliever if you had demons. I cannot know this. I DO know THIS: The Bible says we cannot be indwelt by demons if we are truly born-again and filled with the Holy Spirit. I showed you by Scripture after Scripture.

I have 5 times asked you to show me by Scripture that a Christian CAN be indwelt by demons so as to need them cast out. You have not produced one.

So, who am I to believe? You or G-d? I'm sorry, but I choose G-d.

and on what do you base your answers to these questions?

G-d's Holy Word. His truth.

Consider these words carefully Larry:

Matthew 7

21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' 23 And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'

[patricia1]

I am not being silly.

There some thing in the scripture that are not directly spelled out but are in fact true.

Where is the word trinity in the bible? The triune God is everywhere to be seen but not to those that have not eyes to see.

Shalom Larry,

You are arguing MY argument for me! And yes, you are being silly about semantics. You made a false statement about the terminology of "Possession", saying that someone who used that tern didn't know what they were talking about. That is ridiculous. And now, you come back and prove my point again, by using Trinity. The same as with the Trinity (which is not in the Bible) the term "possession" is not, but the meaning is. That's why you are being silly by making an issue of the term "possession." Man, you like to go in circles.

Jesus showed us that there are demons in people. Can we agree on this?

The Scriptures say there are demons in UNbelievers. NEVER Christians.

He also said, These sign shall follow them that believe, in my name they shall cast out demons...... I believe this and have cast them out of people.

Yep, and what about the rest of that verse...picking up snakes and drinking poison. How much of this have you done?You can't take part of the Scriptures and ignore the rest. Do you also lay hands on the sick and see them recover? Do you also raise the dead?

Mark 16

15And he said to them, "Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel tothe whole creation. 16) Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them;(AN) they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover."

All the people that have had demons cast out of them were believers.

Not true according to the Scriptures. I'm sure you believe this, but I'd rather believe the Scriptures, thank you.

I had them cast out of me.

Are you saying that I am not a believer? Or that I never had any demons in me?

I don't know if you /were/are truly a Believer, only G-d knows. Or whether if you were an unbeliever if you had demons. I cannot know this. I DO know THIS: The Bible says we cannot be indwelt by demons if we are truly born-again and filled with the Holy Spirit. I showed you by Scripture after Scripture.

I have 5 times asked you to show me by Scripture that a Christian CAN be indwelt by demons so as to need them cast out. You have not produced one.

So, who am I to believe? You or G-d? I'm sorry, but I choose G-d.

and on what do you base your answers to these questions?

G-d's Holy Word. His truth.

Consider these words carefully Larry:

Matthew 7

21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' 23 And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'

Anybody can quote scripture and read scripture. Lucifer knows them well... Matthew 12 to is not a parable it is truth

Luke 13: 11 and on---' A DAUGHTER of ABRAHAM' that had a spirit of infirmity for 18 years and was bowed down,could not even lift herself up. Jesus loosed the infirmity from her. She was made straight and Glorified God. She may have been praying for years...Satan had her bound She was a Godly woman.

Matthew 15 : 22 a woman from caanan asking for mercy on her daughter who was vexed by a devil.. She was greek also as described in Mark 7:26 Mark 7:29 Jesus told her go your way the devil is gone OUT of your daughter. They obviously believed,she knew where to go for help.. Jesus delegated His authority to all of us Matthew 10:1 And when He called unto Him His twelve disciples, He gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease

Matthew 10:7,8 and as ye go , preach, saying, The Kingdom is at hand. Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers,raise the dead, cast out devils: freely you have recieved freely give. So what did they recieve ...

In Mark 9: 38 and 39 The disciples were concerned for someone who was doing what Jesus had told them to do and yet he seem not to be one of their followers.

Acts 19:11-12 And God had done special miracles by the hands of paul: handkerchiefs aprons from pauls body and brought back to the sick diseases and the evil spirits departed from them. Paul did not even have to be there. I have a wonderful relationship with Jesus Christ my Lord,that always come first, doing the works of the disciples as we are all called to be.is second..it is What we are called to do.

Those who were refused entrance into the Kingdom of God were people who did not bear fruit and then Jesus goes on to teach about foundations.

John 14:12 Verily I say unto you He that beliveth on me, the works that I do shall he do also: and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my father

In the Lords prayer we to pray to be delivered from evil.. Jesus is talking to christians. Apparantly it was not important to Jesus at the time to say what kind.

Satan spoke through peter and Jesus said get thee behind be satan... In my ministry and most others if a demon speaks through you , from within you that is where it is. Jesus in His compassion got rid of it a different way. Whats the difference if one cures blindness with spittle and mud or calls out a demon. the effect is that person gets his sight back!

It cracks me up personally that the pharisees were more upset over the healing on the sabbath than the miracle of 18 yrs of bondage this poor woman had suffered and still remained faithful!!!

And yes one can have a religious spirit. They are ususally very critical of the Holy Spiritand bind those who God uses.

In Psalm 105: verse 15 It is commanded " do not touch my anointed ones , and do MY prophets no harm. As we are to respect each other here I do not care for the subtle innuendos that uderly remaks ,they are hidden in between the lines, that we do not know what we are talking about..and in fact are basically lying and then covered up slyly.

We are in danger of cursing each other without knowing.

That is all I will say on the matter unless I see some one here needs help, understanding, encouragement, building up, guidence or teaching. love you all Pray the Light of the ever revealing Jesus cotinuially illuminate your hearts,minds ,and Souls IN JESUS Precious Name.

[Vickilynn]

Anybody can quote scripture and read scripture. Lucifer knows them well... Matthew 12 to is not a parable it is truth

Shalom Patricia,

Yes, anyone can quote Scripture, but that has nothing to do with this conversation. Neither does your jab about Lucifer.

And I'm the one who said Matthew 12 was based on REAL LIFE. Please read before you jump in wrong.

Luke 13: 11 and on---' A DAUGHTER of ABRAHAM' that had a spirit of infirmity for 18 years and was bowed down,could not even lift herself up. Jesus loosed the infirmity from her. She was made straight and Glorified God. She may have been praying for years...Satan had her bound She was a Godly woman.

She was not a Christian filled with the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 15 : 22 a woman from caanan asking for mercy on her daughter who was vexed by a devil.. She was greek also as described in Mark 7:26

She was not a Christian filled with the Holy Spirit.

Mark 7:29 Jesus told her go your way the devil is gone OUT of your daughter. They obviously believed,she knew where to go for help..

Proving my point. Jesus healed NON-Believers. They may have become Believers as a result of the deliverance, but they were not before.

Jesus delegated His authority to all of us Matthew 10:1 And when He called unto Him His twelve disciples, He gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

To the Disciples. So?

As we are to respect each other here I do not care for the subtle innuendos that uderly remaks ,they are hidden in between the lines, that we do not know what we are talking about..and in fact are basically lying and then covered up slyly.

Then stop making them, the "he subtle innuendos that uderly remaks (sic). This post is FULL of your accusations and lack of respect for those who believe differently than yourself.

That is all I will say on the matter ....

[patricia1]

Anybody can quote scripture and read scripture. Lucifer knows them well... Matthew 12 to is not a parable it is truth

Shalom Patricia,

Yes, anyone can quote Scripture, but that has nothing to do with this conversation. Neither does your jab about Lucifer.

And I'm the one who said Matthew 12 was based on REAL LIFE. Please read before you jump in wrong.

Luke 13: 11 and on---' A DAUGHTER of ABRAHAM' that had a spirit of infirmity for 18 years and was bowed down,could not even lift herself up. Jesus loosed the infirmity from her. She was made straight and Glorified God. She may have been praying for years...Satan had her bound She was a Godly woman.

She was not a Christian filled with the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 15 : 22 a woman from caanan asking for mercy on her daughter who was vexed by a devil.. She was greek also as described in Mark 7:26

She was not a Christian filled with the Holy Spirit.

Mark 7:29 Jesus told her go your way the devil is gone OUT of your daughter. They obviously believed,she knew where to go for help..

Proving my point. Jesus healed NON-Believers. They may have become Believers as a result of the deliverance, but they were not before.

Jesus delegated His authority to all of us Matthew 10:1 And when He called unto Him His twelve disciples, He gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

To the Disciples. So?

As we are to respect each other here I do not care for the subtle innuendos that uderly remaks ,they are hidden in between the lines, that we do not know what we are talking about..and in fact are basically lying and then covered up slyly.

Then stop making them, the "he subtle innuendos that uderly remaks (sic). This post is FULL of your accusations and lack of respect for those who believe differently than yourself.

That is all I will say on the matter ....

How do you know they were not with the Holy Spirit, The Holy Spirit dwelled with men , . No my posts are not. It is true that anybody can quote scripture and it is true that i believe matthew twelve to be not a parable. I have a right to disagree. I answwer to all who post as well , Opions are opinions.. fact is fact to divide and weed it all out I believe may be difficult. But when a person particularly comes against another person that is not supposed to be what this board is about from what I understand. you do not believe like me...does not make either of us wrong. I believe a christian can have a demon..be vexed by a demon and be oppressed by a demon. that is it !I believe That through the Mercy and Grace we recieved The Power of the Holy Spirit because Of the Death and Risen Christ and the Shedding of His Innocent Blood we are save from eternal death and can do All the works or exploits depending on which bible you read, That Jesus commands us to do. Above all things Loving God with all your heart mind and soul and Loving your neighbor as yourself and I live that way.. That is my stand. Demons can cause illness and insanity amongst other things which the word of God says. God says it that settles it for me. love in christ to all patricia Glory to God

[Vickilynn]

Anybody can quote scripture and read scripture. Lucifer knows them well... Matthew 12 to is not a parable it is truth

Shalom Patricia,

Yes, anyone can quote Scripture, but that has nothing to do with this conversation. Neither does your jab about Lucifer.

And I'm the one who said Matthew 12 was based on REAL LIFE. Please read before you jump in wrong.

Luke 13: 11 and on---' A DAUGHTER of ABRAHAM' that had a spirit of infirmity for 18 years and was bowed down,could not even lift herself up. Jesus loosed the infirmity from her. She was made straight and Glorified God. She may have been praying for years...Satan had her bound She was a Godly woman.

She was not a Christian filled with the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 15 : 22 a woman from caanan asking for mercy on her daughter who was vexed by a devil.. She was greek also as described in Mark 7:26

She was not a Christian filled with the Holy Spirit.

Mark 7:29 Jesus told her go your way the devil is gone OUT of your daughter. They obviously believed,she knew where to go for help..

Proving my point. Jesus healed NON-Believers. They may have become Believers as a result of the deliverance, but they were not before.

Jesus delegated His authority to all of us Matthew 10:1 And when He called unto Him His twelve disciples, He gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

To the Disciples. So?

As we are to respect each other here I do not care for the subtle innuendos that uderly remaks ,they are hidden in between the lines, that we do not know what we are talking about..and in fact are basically lying and then covered up slyly.

Then stop making them, the "he subtle innuendos that uderly remaks (sic). This post is FULL of your accusations and lack of respect for those who believe differently than yourself.

That is all I will say on the matter ....

How do you know they were not with the Holy Spirit, The Holy Spirit dwelled with men , . No my posts are not. It is true that anybody can quote scripture and it is true that i believe matthew twelve to be not a parable. I have a right to disagree. I answwer to all who post as well , Opions are opinions.. fact is fact to divide and weed it all out I believe may be difficult. But when a person particularly comes against another person that is not supposed to be what this board is about from what I understand. you do not believe like me...does not make either of us wrong. I believe a christian can have a demon..be vexed by a demon and be oppressed by a demon. that is it !I believe That through the Mercy and Grace we recieved The Power of the Holy Spirit because Of the Death and Risen Christ and the Shedding of His Innocent Blood we are save from eternal death and can do All the works or exploits depending on which bible you read, That Jesus commands us to do. Above all things Loving God with all your heart mind and soul and Loving your neighbor as yourself and I live that way.. That is my stand. Demons can cause illness and insanity amongst other things which the word of God says. God says it that settles it for me. love in christ to all patricia Glory to God

Shalom Patricia,

I know they were not Christian because the Bible does not say they were. We cannot ASSUME they were Christian and make our beliefs on assumptions. If Christians could be indwelt and need demons cast out, the Scriptures would say so. But, they don't. In Fact, they say the opposite.

And I have a right to disagree with you, but when I do, you attack me personally. You must stop this, it is not becoming to Messiah. You must allow others to hold different views than yourself. You have the right to your opinion, as well as do others and you must respect that.

The Scriptures are the authority. We cannot make up our own beliefs based on assumptions and call it Scripture. That is false doctrine.

Demons can cause illness and insanity yes, but NOT in Christians. The Bible says this clearly and I stand firm upon the Word of G-d. G-d says it, that settles it, no matter what man may say, G-d's Word is the only truth.

[Smalcald]

How do we know when someone in their heart simply chooses darkness, as John says the light came into the world and they liked the darkness and fled from the light because they liked their sin, this person cannot have true faith in Christ, but they use demon's as an excuse for their own unbelief or worse yet have in their heart chosen Satan. How do we know from the outside what is going on?

I do believe that people can be possessed by demons just as scripture points out, but what is our role in these matters as believers?

[Vickilynn]

How do we know when someone in their heart simply chooses darkness, as John says the light came into the world and they liked the darkness and fled from the light because they liked their sin, this person cannot have true faith in Christ, but they use demon's as an excuse for their own unbelief or worse yet have in their heart chosen Satan. How do we know from the outside what is going on?

I do believe that people can be possessed by demons just as scripture points out, but what is our role in these matters as believers?

Shalom,

"People" (meaning non-Christians) may be indwelt by demons, but the Scriptures prove that Spirit-filled Believers can not. Demons cannot dwell where the Holy Spirit resides. The Scriptures give us that blessed assurance, so Believers need not worry about being demon-possessed or needing exorcism.

[Vickilynn]

Shalom Manic,

The Holy Spirit does not live in the "air."

Here are the Scriptures you requested.

Can A Christian Be Demon-Possessed?

Though demons can enter and possess any unbeliever, they cannot enter into the body of those who belong to the Lord.

There are a number of reasons why this is so.

Greater Is He

The Bible says that the one who indwells believers is greater than the one who is in the world.

You are of God, my little children, and have overcome them: because greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world (1 John 4:4).

Delivered

Those who have trusted Christ have been delivered from the possibility of demonic possession. Paul wrote.

in which you once lived, following the course of this world, following the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work among those who are disobedient (Ephesians 2:2).

The believers do not live any more under their authority.

He has rescued us from the power of darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of His beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins (Colossians 1:13,14).

Nothing In Common

Believers have nothing in common with darkness or Satan. The Holy Spirit, and a demonic spirit, cannot co-exist in the same person.

And what agreement has Christ with Belial? or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? (2 Corinthians 6:15).

No Biblical Example

Finally, there is no example in Scripture of a believer in Jesus Christ being demon-possessed. All cases of demonic possession were with those who were unbelievers.

Passages In Support?

Sometimes the following passages are cited as support of believers being possessed. Paul ordered the church of Corinth to deliver a believer over to Satan.

to deliver such a one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus (1 Corinthians 5:5).

There is no evidence that the person whom Paul delivered over to Satan became demon-possessed.

Two Others

The Bible speaks of two other individuals who were also delivered over to Satan.

of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I delivered unto Satan, that they might be taught not to blaspheme (1 Timothy 1:20).

As is the case with the believer in Corinth, there is no indication that either of these men were ever demon-possessed.

People Taken Captive

Another passage speaks of people being taken captive by the Devil.

and they may recover themselves out of the snare of the Devil, having been taken captive by him unto his will (2 Timothy 2:26).

The people under discussion in this context are not believers. Consequently there is no Scriptural support for the idea that Christians can become demon-possessed.

What About Stories Of Believers And Demons?

If this is the case, then what about the stories that circulate with respect to believers and demon-possession. Examples are provided of believers who exhibit symptoms of demon possession. When people give examples of believers being possessed, there are a number of questions that immediately arise, "Were these victims of demon possession really believers?" "Were they actually possessed with a demon, or is there another possible explanation for their behavior?" Since the Bible gives no support that a believer can be possessed by a demon, some other explanation must be in order.

Permanent Indwelling Of Holy Spirit

The issue is clear. It is not whether a professing Christian can be demon-possessed, but rather can a genuine, "born again" Christian become demon-possessed? The Bible teaches that those who have trusted Christ are permanently indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

In Him you also, when you had heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and had believed in Him, were marked with the seal of the promised Holy Spirit; this is the pledge of our inheritance toward redemption as God's own people, to the praise of His glory (Ephesians 1:13,14).

New Creation

Believers are a new creation in Christ.

So if anyone is in Christ, there is a new creation: everything old has passed away; see, everything has become new! (2 Corinthians 5:17).

Body Temple Of Holy Spirit

The body of the believer is now a temple of the Holy Spirit.

Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you, which you have from God? and you are not your own (1 Corinthians 6:19).

Cannot Separate The Believer From The Lord

The Bible says that such evil powers cannot separate the believer from the love of God.

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord (Romans 8:38,39).

Specially mentioned are the angels and principalities - angelic orders. Not even they can separate the believer from the love of God. All of these things would make demon-possession an impossibility for the believer.

Spiritual Balance Needed

Satan and demons are defeated foes, yet they are still very active in this world, causing much harm. Though they cannot possess and control a believer, they can cause a number of problems.

Summary

The Scripture does not teach that a Christian can be possessed by a demon. The believer is "in Christ,"- one of His. Every example in the Bible of a person being demon-possessed concerns an unbeliever - there are no examples of believers being possessed. Furthermore, we must be careful not to rely on stories of believers and demon-possession - many other explanations are possible. The Christian, who is indwelt by the Holy Spirit, need not fear demon possession. Yet, demons do attack believers in various ways. Therefore, it would be wrong to say that they cannot have any affect on the Christian.

Don Stewart

http://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/nbi/61.html