Saints in the Holy City

[RND]

RND,

it is you, that needs to be careful, about the false teachings you are spreading. i have checked a few of your proof texts, and just outright know better than some of what you are trying to use to press your point. you quote out of context for the majority of your text. (Would you at least provide some proof of this other than just staing your opinion) as floatingaxe already told you, i get my doctrine from the bible (Me too. Notice all the Scriptural references) and proven sources, (such as?) not some website. (Would the useage of website resources be credible if they affirmed your beliefs and opinions?) i have a habit of proving a point before accepting it, as we are advised in the bible. you might try that. (I did. I used Scriptural references, yet in this post of yours that I am refuting there is a total of: zero)

honestly, you argue with yourself, (How so? You responded didn't you) what you are posting is contradictory, (According to? The Bible? You didn't reference it so how would anyone but you know?) to your own position, you have so much out of context, (Your refernces prove that right?) most of it doesn't even make sense.

It would be handy if you offered some valid points of me spreading false teaching and contradictions on my part by using Scripture to refute what I have posted. Without such, you are merely stating your opinion and beliefs.

[Floatingaxe]

I surely wish you would stop referring to that website--it doesn't impress. Yes, I read you loud and clear, but I believe that it is YOU who teaches falsehood. At death, my brain functions are all lost, but my spirit--where I live---goes on to be with the Father! (This is a your belief.) Amen. We believers all go to be with the Father immediately,( Again Belief) but the resurrection where we receive our new glorified bodies takes place at a later time. (So our spirit goes to be with the Lord, and we wait in Heaven for the Lord to "go get" ur glorifed bodies? Scripture would be handy, otherwise you are simply stating your opinion) Right now, the only physical bodies in heaven are that of Jesus, and Elijah and Enoch. All others are spirit.

Oh, and PS: Your scriptural references about our mortality do not serve to prove anything. We indeed are mortal bodies which return to dust from whence they came. But the incorruptible spirit lives on forever! (There is nothing in Scrpiture, anywhere thats says your spirit is immortal)

I have offered numerous scriptures that indicate clearly that we sleep the sleep of death prior to and until the resurrection.

You offered your belief, and opinion without any Scriptural references. I'll be willing to bet your opinion and belief's were influenced by the false teaching of your church.

Actually, as I have taken the time and effort to read most of your scriptural references, I note that I could easily use the SAME references to support what I have been taught and believe for almost 50 years now. My beliefs come from exactly what you have posted--the Word of God! No false teaching in my church, thanks. Go figure!

[prcfighter]

RND, what are you saying? That people don't have a soul? That there's no afterlife, at least until Jesus comes back?

I still think this scripture is strange, it sounds like they thought Jesus was setting up his kingdom right then.

People don't have souls, that is correct.

People are souls! Living souls!

Genesis 2:7

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

That there's no afterlife, at least until Jesus comes back?

That is 100% correct! There is no eternal life until Jesus Christ returns and resureects the dead! To beleive otherwise is demonstration that you believe in a false pagan doctrine and teaching.

Ezekiel 18:4

Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

There is web site called www.truthaboutdeath.com and it can help you better understand this vitally important subject. God Bless!

What are you talking about? To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord--eternally alive! I think you must be referring to a physical body, which we receive at the resurrection of the saints. Before that, however, when we die, our spirits go to be with the Lord!

Hallelujah!

you are mistaken friend, RND is right. and the verse you quoted is wrong. it is to be absent from he body AND to be present with the lord. That is what Paul wanted. You should reread your verses before you post them

[Floatingaxe]

RND, what are you saying? That people don't have a soul? That there's no afterlife, at least until Jesus comes back?

I still think this scripture is strange, it sounds like they thought Jesus was setting up his kingdom right then.

People don't have souls, that is correct.

People are souls! Living souls!

Genesis 2:7

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

That there's no afterlife, at least until Jesus comes back?

That is 100% correct! There is no eternal life until Jesus Christ returns and resureects the dead! To beleive otherwise is demonstration that you believe in a false pagan doctrine and teaching.

Ezekiel 18:4

Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

There is web site called www.truthaboutdeath.com and it can help you better understand this vitally important subject. God Bless!

What are you talking about? To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord--eternally alive! I think you must be referring to a physical body, which we receive at the resurrection of the saints. Before that, however, when we die, our spirits go to be with the Lord!

Hallelujah!

you are mistaken friend, RND is right. and the verse you quoted is wrong. it is to be absent from he body AND to be present with the lord. That is what Paul wanted. You should reread your verses before you post them

I know what the verse says, and I know what Paul means. I am not mistaken in the least.

[prcfighter]

RND...

I believe you are greatly deluded and for you to recommend us to read a website is preposterous! I get my teachings from the Word of God and fine Pastors...where do you get yours?

Perhaps you err because you misunderstand the definition of "soul". It is the seat of the mind, the will and the emotions. Of course that ceases at death, but the spirit goes to be with the Lord.

There is no other teaching in scripture about that!

Floatingaxe. RND is correct. if you read mathew 22:30 jesus actually rebukes people for believing exactly what you belief. The Bible repeats itself soo many times that we go to heaven when resurrected. Why do you not believe? Pray about it ask GOd to show you the light in the matter!

[Floatingaxe]

RND...

I believe you are greatly deluded and for you to recommend us to read a website is preposterous! I get my teachings from the Word of God and fine Pastors...where do you get yours?

Perhaps you err because you misunderstand the definition of "soul". It is the seat of the mind, the will and the emotions. Of course that ceases at death, but the spirit goes to be with the Lord.

There is no other teaching in scripture about that!

Floatingaxe. RND is correct. if you read mathew 22:30 jesus actually rebukes people for believing exactly what you belief. The Bible repeats itself soo many times that we go to heaven when resurrected. Why do you not believe? Pray about it ask GOd to show you the light in the matter!

This is getting quite sad now. Let me quote: "29-33 Jesus answered, 'You're off base on two counts: You don't know your Bibles, and you don't know how God works. At the resurrection we're beyond marriage. As with the angels, all our ecstasies and intimacies then will be with God. And regarding your speculation on whether the dead are raised or not, don't you read your Bibles? The grammar is clear: God says, 'I am

Edited July 14, 2006 by Floatingaxe

[prcfighter]

RND i stand by you in this agruement. If you guys would look at the matter with an opened mind and heart you will see. Is it not possible that the teachings you were taught for 50 years may be wrong??? People were taught the earth is flat for 100 of years...Anyways if we went straight to heaven why would Jesus come back for us??? IF we are in heaven Jesus wouldnt have tgo come back now would HE. Or are you saying Jesus is wrong in what he says? And Jesus comes to take the dead first! then teh living!!!!!!! so IF the dead aretaken then they can not be in Heaven now can they? so how can what you guys have been saying true? Maybe it is what you want to beliefe that immediatly after death you go to be with GOd. indeed you will be with God but only after a ressurection! God states DO NOT ADD ANTTHING OR REMOVE ANYTHING FROM THE BIBLE. YOu guys are wrong!!! Jesus rebukes people just like you!! Read mathew 22:30!!

[prcfighter]

floatingaxe i appreciate the pray, when i first heard about ot goign to heaven immediatly i was schoked and prayed about it! God showed me what is right. Jesus we do not marry when we are ressurected! what does that mean?? if we are in heaven why be ressurected??? and can we be married before ressurection? NO!! we are dead. Jesus ressurects us. and saying millions of Christians believe that you go to heaven after death is pathetic. millions of people believe millions of things that are false!!

[traveller]

I suggest we let this topic cool down a bit.