Good information on 'Born Gay' Studies

[artsylady]

And speaking of parades, did you know that NAMBLA also has parades, (North American Man Boy Love Association)?

The word LOVE is right in their title, but obviously this is not real love.

REal love is described in scripture.

4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does NOT DELIGHT IN EVIL but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

You may see an overwhelming outpouring of support for each other the way you might see it at a Nambla parade, but this is not real love.

[Floatingaxe]

Well, there is a nature behind this. Lets look at Romans chapter 1.

Romans 1:18-28

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man

[artsylady]

And please one more thing, please don't start comparing all Christians to Fred Phelps. He's just wacked.

[artsylady]

"Agreed, he's an extreme case for sure, but you can't deny that you share the same basic beliefs on homosexuals... doesn't the fact that you and Mr. Phelps have something in common have your spidey-senses tingling?"

From a worldly point of view, you also have a common belief with Fred Phelps. You and He both beleive in Jesus Christ.

However, from a spiritual point of view, who is Fred Phelps really worshipping? He is clearly preaching hatred and clearly hates people. Do YOU believe he's taken up his cross and decided to follow the one and only Jesus Christ? I beleive Jesus Christ himself addressed people like Fred Phelps and he told us that by their fruits we would know them and that even though people say they beleive in God MANY will be rejected upon judgement.

I wonder if you have some insecurities and that is why you wish to accept the gay lifestyle as an acceptable one. You want to beleive gays are born that way because that is what they tell you. However, if the Bible says that they are wrong and that this behaviour is sinful, who are you to say that it's not? How do you reconcile the many verses that condemn the behaviour. You aren't doing them any favours if you purposefully ignore scripture and accept their behaviour and call it okay. If you're wrong, they'll find out a different story on judgement day. If you really care about them, you will try to see things the way God sees them. I personally don't preach to gay people that I come into contact with. I leave the subject alone unless it's brought up. I love them, but I certainly don't condone the behaviour that God has called sinful. That would be a disservice to God AND to them.

"Speak the truth in love". I don't accept homosexuality as a valid lifestyle out of LOVE - love for God, his laws, and for the people who are falling for the lies of the devil.

I had a paragraph written about strong compulsions - so strong that people truly beleive that the compulsions toward wrong cause people to actually believe it's in their dna somehow - or they were 'born to' be a woman, be gay, cut off their limbs, have an addictive personality, etc, etc, etc. I would like to know your thoughts on this if you don't mind.

[Guest LadyC]

i have very little time before i have to get ready for church si i'll just respond to some of your comments for now and reply about the scriptures later. maybe. i've had this debate on these boards many times and discussed the scriptures so depending on how the events of the day go in real life, i may let others carry that part of the discussion or let you run a search on the boards for my past responses to the same thing instead. busy days leave me with a short attention span.

anyway, working backwards.... floating axe is not being unchristian or labeling anyone. she stated a fact. scripture talks about reprobates, those who have hardened their hearts so much against God. by saying, as she did, that many homosexuals are reprobates, she's not making judgements against an particular person because she doesn't know WHICH individuals are reprobates, only that some are. there are reprobates in this world. some are homosexuals. some are heterosexuals. some are prostitutes. some are businessmen. some are firefighters. it's just the way it is.

you wanted to know why i ask if you believe in the triune nature of God? i already told you. you said that Jesus never said anything about homosexuality. God does. scripture is the word of God, and Jesus is the word who came to earth in the flesh. you can't separate any part of scripture and say that Jesus didn't say it just because there's no record of him speaking them during his three years on earth as a man.... because everything in scripture, even what paul wrote, is who Jesus is. He was the word before the earth was even formed.

i notice this time you didn't respond to my suggestion that we also cover the broader category of sexual sin. homosexuality is a sexual sin, paulo. so is prostitution and adultry and fornication and pornography and anything else that goes against what God created our sexuality for. oh yeah, you forgot to respond to what that is! you know, the Biblical marriage model, its purpose and how it reflects the trinity. (and no i'm not talking about reproduction, i'm talking about the intimacy of sexuality between husband and wife.)

again regarding what you said to floating axe. do you understand that not all forms of love are healthy? and not all forms of love are Godly?

remaining in sexual sin of any kind IS a form of idolatry, because it is seeking the satisfaction of ones own ungodly desires and disregarding what God instructs of us.

about fred phelps. no, none of us here believe the same basic thing that the westboro baptist bigots believe. WE believe that the Bible is very clear that God hates the sin of homosexuality. WBC bigots believe that God hates the PERSON who is committing the sin.

yes, smokers choose to smoke.... when they start. once they become addicted, they no longer have control over their choice, it controls THEM. just like sex addicts, drug addicts, and homosexuals. i believe that homosexuality is very much a sexual addiction.

one last thing and then i have to jump in the shower or i'll miss church for the second week in a row.

what does the Bible say about PRIDE?

[artsylady]

Paulo:

I read the verses in post 146 along with your commentary but am not sure what you're trying to say.

It sure seems to me that these verses condemn homosexuality, along with other sins. But you don't see that?

[artsylady]

"I'd be more than happy to give more detail as to the meanings behind "arsenokoites and malakos", but I'm trying to get to everyone's posts and it's late. "

Yes, please do when you have some time.

You see, it's not that I WANT to see homosexuality as a sin. But I definitely do WANT to see it the way God has written it so that I don't lead others astray by giving them a false sense of comfort.

Can you honestly ask yourself if you want to see the verses the way God wanted them to be interpretted, or do you have a biased and wish to see it to be encompassing of the gay lifestyle? You don't have to answer me, just be honest with yourself. I ask this because I remember from being in discussions like this before, that people will go way out of their way to make it seem as though the verses aren't saying what seems to be obvious. They jump hurdles to make it seem like the verses are saying something else instead of taking them at their face value. Not saying you're doing that but just be careful (and so will i)

[Joshua-777]

Ok. Since josh-13 replied, I'd be more than happy to discuss:

So, Romans 1:26-27 is clearly about same-sex relationships.

Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. (Romans 1:26-27, NIV)

But it is also clearly not about all same-sex relationships. How so? Read the verses in context.

Never said it was all about same sex relationships.

1.The people knew God but did not glorify him or honour him, and their heats were darkened.

For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. (Romans 1:21, NIV)

2. Claiming to be wise they became fools and started worshipping idols made in the image of people and animals.

Yes, though they knew there was a God, they did not glorify him, in this case, their foolish hearts where darknened so they did not know God, I believe this applys to those who reject God aswell.

Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.(Romans 1:22-23, NIV)

Ya know I've always wondered if this verse relates to evolutionists. It fits.

3. Then God gave them over to sinful sexual desires.

Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. (Romans 1:24, NIV)

4. Then the truth about God was replaced with idolatry.

They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator

[Guest lovinghim4ever]

No, I am not a lesbian, however I do have mixed feelings and beliefs about the subject.

Why is it that when other Christians aren

[Guest lnj]

My concern with homosexuality whether it is male or female same sex..where is the line of so called "decency' drawn for the Gay person? Eg: A 25 year old Gay male attracted to a 12 yearold boy...??

In ancient Greece, homosexuality was nearly always between an adult male and a preteen boy. Paedophilia and homosexuality have blurred lines and to say the whole thing is harmless and one was born that way inclined...pleeease.

It is such a lie from the deceiver.