Good information on 'Born Gay' Studies

[Floatingaxe]

personally, i don't beleive that God would call homosexuality an abomination and then make it so some people have no choice but to be gay. i just makes no sense. sure maybe there's something in genetics that makes people more suseptable to being gay, but i think it's over-all a choice.

I share your point of view, except I disagree with the genetic reference. Where people attribute a genetic predisposition, I say it is a generational curse...spiritual in origin.

The choice is in whether or not to put the inclination into action. Then, acting upon the inclination, as it would be with an alcoholic, a glut, or anyone who is concupiscent (still haven't had the correct definition brought out by anyone here...webster has it, though), the person would be sinning. Again, I agree that anyone who identifies themselves openly that they are gay, chances are, have sinned and are living in the sinful state. Anyone struggling with the inclination though...we can not call sinful.

Dictionary.com!!!

con

[SaturnV]

Directly from the site regarding inherited alcoholism:

"Our Comments: There is a difference between identifying an attitude that runs in a family and discovering a gene that contributes to alcoholism. The HealthDay title of the previous article "Heredity May Play Part in Drinking Habits" is misleading. There is no evidence whatsoever that attitudes toward drinking are hereditary. There are familial, societal, and cultural attitudes toward alcohol consumption but this does not mean that they have a genetic basis.

Genes clearly do contribute to alcoholism. However, even when a gene like GABRG3 is found, that does not mean we understand the genetic basis of alcoholism. The researchers do not yet know how changes in the GABA gene increase a person's risk of alcoholism."

I would agree with the comments wholeheartely and also apply the same ones to homosexuality. The study you quoted on homosexuality is not even close to specific for one thing. It doesn't even show us any real numbers, let alone convincing ones and it's quite likely that the same holds true - the familial, societal and cultural attitudes with the family are likely the same, so the fact that there may be homosexualities in the next generation doesn't seem far fetched at all. If you're in a family where you have an uncle who is gay and you raise boys to beleve that "Uncle John" is gay and that's normal for him, it opens up possibilities to the kids thinking of that as an alternative lifestyle. Much like what Lady C was just saying.

That was more or less what I was getting at. Genetic factors are often influenced by the environment, so there's really no pinning it on one cause.

[CaritateDei]

Directly from the site regarding inherited alcoholism:

"Our Comments: There is a difference between identifying an attitude that runs in a family and discovering a gene that contributes to alcoholism. The HealthDay title of the previous article "Heredity May Play Part in Drinking Habits" is misleading. There is no evidence whatsoever that attitudes toward drinking are hereditary. There are familial, societal, and cultural attitudes toward alcohol consumption but this does not mean that they have a genetic basis.

Genes clearly do contribute to alcoholism. However, even when a gene like GABRG3 is found, that does not mean we understand the genetic basis of alcoholism. The researchers do not yet know how changes in the GABA gene increase a person's risk of alcoholism."

I would agree with the comments wholeheartely and also apply the same ones to homosexuality. The study you quoted on homosexuality is not even close to specific for one thing. It doesn't even show us any real numbers, let alone convincing ones and it's quite likely that the same holds true - the familial, societal and cultural attitudes with the family are likely the same, so the fact that there may be homosexualities in the next generation doesn't seem far fetched at all. If you're in a family where you have an uncle who is gay and you raise boys to beleve that "Uncle John" is gay and that's normal for him, it opens up possibilities to the kids thinking of that as an alternative lifestyle. Much like what Lady C was just saying.

That was more or less what I was getting at. Genetic factors are often influenced by the environment, so there's really no pinning it on one cause.

I agree that environment plays a role too...and I am NOT saying that homosexuality is ok.

[artsylady]

Saturn:

I know what you mean, but I think you mean that heritary traits are not genetic but rather environmental. And I would agree with that.

[SaturnV]

I'm actually saying that many traits, especially psychological ones, are both environmental and genetic. So, someone with a "gay gene" might never become gay until something in their environment triggers it. Likewise, someone in a "gay environment" might also never become gay if they lack the genetic precursors to it.

[artsylady]

I would say environmental and spiritual, not genetic. No evidence so far for genetic. If it was there, I think science would have found it by now. They've been studying this for close to 20 years now.

[Joshua-777]

One thing interesting I've noticed, around 80 percent of homosexuals where molested, or their first sexual experience was with the same sex, interesting.

I believe bisexual, is based off of Lust. Same with homosexuality. Sad so many confuse love with sexual attraction, ya know some see animals as sexualy attractive, very sick.

It's all sin, and it's all based on a choice. we all face temptation, it's always a choice to give into it or not, there is no gay gene no more than there is a drug addiction gene. It's all based on personal experience, temptation, and choice.

Interesting statistic, do you know where you found that? I find it strange that the study clumped up molestation and homosexual sex in the same %... I wonder how much of that is molestation, and how much is a sexual experience with the same sex. I don't believe 80% of homosexuals being molested is an accurate statement, but I would believe that 80% of homosexuals' first sexual experience was with the same sex. If you can find it, could you cite the source for that info?

The issue that I have always had about the lust thing, is that everyone experiences lust at some point. I have lusted before, but it has always been after women. I have never once thought about lusting after a man. Ever. Not because I can resist the temptation, but because it just isn't something that I find attractive.

Obviously it is a choice to HAVE intercourse, but it is hard for me to choose who I find attractive or not, if that makes sense. I can find women attractive, but I can't, nor could I ever, find a man attractive. Me being heterosexual isn't a choice, that is why I feel being homosexual isn't a choice either. Bisexuality is bit different for me, and that is where I can see choice being more prevalent, but for people who are solely homosexual, members of the opposite sex just don't appeal to them, just like a member of my own sex doesn't appeal to me.

I think at this point it is one of those situations where people will have to agree to disagree. Knowing if people are born gay or not is honestly a personal decision at this point, there is no difinitive proof one way or another. That's how I see it at least.

I can't find a direct source for that info on the internet, I'll keep on searching, some interesting facts about homosexuality though.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1501855/posts

e Statistics on Homosexuality and its Effects Catholic Apologetics International

http://www.catholicintl.com/news/news.htm

Some statistics about the Homosexual lifestyle:

* One study reports 70% of homosexuals admitting to having sex only one time with over 50% of their partners (3)

* One study reports that the average homosexual has between 20 and 106 partners per year (6). The average heterosexual has 8 partners in a lifetime

* Many homosexual sexual encounters occur while drunk, high on drugs, or in an orgy setting (7)

* Many homosexuals don't pay heed to warnings of their lifestyles: "Knowledge of health guidelines was quite high, but this knowledge had no relation to sexual behavior" (16)

* Homosexuals got homosexuality removed from the list of mental illnesses in the early 70s by storming the annual American Psychiatric Association (APA) conference on successive years. "Guerrilla theater tactics and more straight-forward shouting matches characterized their presence" (2). Since homosexuality has been removed from the APA list of mental illnesses, so has pedophilia (except when the adult feels "subjective distress") (27)

* Homosexuals account for 3-4% of all gonorrhea cases, 60% of all syphilis cases, and 17% of all hospital admissions (other than for STDs) in the United States (5). They make up only 1-2% of the population

* Homosexuals live unhealthy lifestyles, and have historically accounted for the bulk of syphilis, gonorrhea, Hepatitis B, the "gay bowel syndrome" (which attacks the intestinal tract), tuberculosis and cytomegalovirus (27)

* 73% of psychiatrists say homosexuals are less happy than the average person, and of those psychiatrists, 70% say that the unhappiness is NOT due to social stigmatization (13)

* 25-33% of homosexuals and lesbians are alcoholics (11)

* Of homosexuals questioned in one study reports that 43% admit to 500 or more partners in a lifetime, 28% admit to 1000 or more in a lifetime, and of these people, 79% say that half of those partners are total strangers, and 70% of those sexual contacts are one night stands (or, as one homosexual admits in the film "The Castro", one minute stands) (3). Also, it is a favorite past-time of many homosexuals to go to "cruisy areas" and have anonymous sex

* 78% of homosexuals are affected by STDs (20)

* Judge John Martaugh, chief magistrate of the New York City Criminal Court has said, "Homosexuals account for half the murders in large cities" (10)

* Captain William Riddle of the Los Angeles Police says, "30,000 sexually abused children in Los Angeles were victims of homosexuals" (10)

* 50% of suicides can be attributed to homosexuals (10)

* Dr. Daniel Capron, a practicing psychiatrist, says, "Homosexuality by definition is not healthy and wholesome. The homosexual person, at best, will be unhappier and more unfulfilled than the sexually normal person" (10). For other psychiatrists who believe that homosexuality is wrong, please see National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality

* It takes approximately $300,000 to take care of each AIDS victim, so thanks to the promiscuous lifestyle of homosexuals, medical insurance rates have been skyrocketing for all of us(10)

* Homosexuals were responsible for spreading AIDS in the United States, and then raised up violent groups like Act Up and Ground Zero to complain about it. Even today, homosexuals account for well over 50% of the AIDS cases in the United States, which is quite a large number considering that they account for only 1-2% of the population

* Homosexuals account for a disproportionate number of hepatitis cases: 70-80% in San Francisco, 29% in Denver, 66% in New York City, 56% in Toronto, 42% in Montreal, and 26% in Melbourne (8)

* 37% of homosexuals engage in sadomasochism, which accounts for many accidental deaths. In San Francisco, classes were held to teach homosexuals how to not kill their partners during sadomasochism (8)

* 41% of homosexuals say they have had sex with strangers in public restrooms, 60% say they have had sex with strangers in bathhouses, and 64% of these encounters have involved the use of illegal drugs (8)

* Depending on the city, 39-59% of homosexuals are infected with intestinal parasites like worms, flukes and amoebae, which is common in filthy third world countries (8)

* The median age of death of homosexuals is 42 (only 9% live past age 65). This drops to 39 if the cause of death is AIDS. The median age of death of a married heterosexual man is 75 (8)

* The median age of death of lesbians is 45 (only 24% live past age 65). The median age of death of a married heterosexual woman is 79 (8)

* Homosexuals are 100 times more likely to be murdered (usually by another homosexual) than the average person, 25 times more likely to commit suicide, and 19 times more likely to die in a traffic accident (8)

* 21% of lesbians die of murder, suicide or traffic accident, which is at a rate of 534 times higher than the number of white heterosexual females aged 25-44 who die of these things(8)

* 50% of the calls to a hotline to report "queer bashing" involved domestic violence (i.e., homosexuals beating up other homosexuals) (18)

* About 50% of the women on death row are lesbians (12).

Homosexuals prey on children.

* 33% of homosexuals ADMIT to minor/adult sex (7)

* There is a notable homosexual group, consisting of thousands of members, known as the North American Man and Boy Love Association ( NAMBLA). This is a child molesting homosexual group whose cry is "SEX BEFORE 8 BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE." This group can be seen marching in most major homosexual parades across the United States

* Homosexuals commit more than 33% of all reported child molestations in the United States, which, assuming homosexuals make up 2% of the population, means that 1 in 20 homosexuals is a child molestor, while 1 in 490 heterosexuals is a child molestor (19)

* 73% of all homosexuals have had sex with boys under 19 years of age (9)

* Many homosexuals admit that they are pedophiles: "The love between men and boys is at the foundation of homosexuality" (22)

* Because homosexuals can't reproduce naturally, they resort to recruiting children. Homosexuals can be heard chanting "TEN PERCENT IS NOT ENOUGH, RECRUIT, RECRUIT, RECRUIT" in their homosexual parades. A group called the "Lesbian Avengers" prides itself on trying to recruit young girls. They print "WE RECRUIT" on their literature. Some other homosexuals aren't as overt about this, but rather try to infiltrate society and get into positions where they will have access to the malleable minds of young children (e.g., the clergy, teachers, Boy Scout leaders, etc.) (8). See the DC Lesbian Avengers web page, and DC Lesbian Avengers Press Release, where they threaten to recruit little boys and girls. Also, see AFA Action Alert.

The homosexual agenda.

* The homosexual agenda includes desensitizing the public: "The first order of business is desensitization of the American public concerning gays and gay rights.....To desensitize the public is to help it view homosexuality with indifference instead of with keen emotion. Ideally, we would have straights register differences in sexual preferences the way they register different tastes for ice cream or sports games....At least in the beginning, we are seeking public desensitization and nothing more. We do not need and cannot expect a full 'appreciation' or 'understanding' of homosexuality from the average American. You can forget about trying to persuade the masses that homosexuality is a good thing. But if only you can get them to think that it is just another thing...then your battle for legal and social rights is virtually won" (25)

* Part of the homosexual agenda is to get the public to affirm their filthy lifestyle, as one homosexual admitted in the October 1987 homosexual rally on Washington: "We are no longer seeking just a right to privacy and a protection from wrong. We also have a right -- as heterosexual Americans already have -- to see government and society affirm our lives" (27)

* Part of the homosexual agenda is to turn people from Christianity: "The teaching that only male-female sexual activity within the bounds and constraints of marriage is the only acceptable form should be reason enough for any homosexual to denounce the Christian religion" (1)

* Homosexuals knowingly lied (and still lie) about the 10% figure (i.e., homosexuals make up 10% of the population). As Tom Stoddard (formerly of the Lambda Legal Defense Fund) said, "We used that figure when most gay people were entirely hidden to try to create an impression of our numerousness" (17).

The true number of homosexuals.

* The Kinsey study of 1948, which homosexuals often cite to say that 10% of the population is homosexual, actually says that only 4% of the population is EXCLUSIVELY homosexual. This study involved a disproportionate number of people who had been in jail for sex crimes (hardly a random sample of the population). Kinsey also did perverse studies involving young boys and pedophiles. Information on Kinsey

* Current research shows that the true percentage of homosexuals is in the 1-2% range (15,23,26,28). Consider how small this number is when compared to most of the numbers above.

Homosexuals aren't discriminated against in employment, so why should they be a protected class?

* The average yearly income of a homosexual is $55,430.00 (most of which is disposable because no children to take care of!). The average of the general population is $32,144.00. The average of blacks is $12,166.00 (24)

* 59.6% of homosexuals are college graduates. 18.0% of the general population are college graduates (24). Too bad they aren't smart enough to listen to God. "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" (Romans 1:22)

* 49.0% of homosexuals hold professional/managerial positions. 15.9% of the general population hold such positions (24). Where's the job discrimination?

Sexual Orientation

[Floatingaxe]

I'm actually saying that many traits, especially psychological ones, are both environmental and genetic. So, someone with a "gay gene" might never become gay until something in their environment triggers it. Likewise, someone in a "gay environment" might also never become gay if they lack the genetic precursors to it.

There is no gay gene.

[artsylady]

In the city where I used to live, there was a particular place where gay men would gather - the men's restroom at the downtown park. When that got raided, they moved to the boys washroom by the children's section of the big downtown city library.

It's true. I'm not joking. This is common. Having been formerly in the media, I know a few cops.

If you know one, ask them where they gay men hang out in your city. (These are often gay men who are married with kids living straight lives).

[artsylady]

"There is no gay gene."

I think this needs to be pasted on every page in this thread.