Getting rid of my secular music...

[sierra21]

The only difference between throwing them away and burning them is that if you throw them away, some poor lost soul could pick them out of the trash and be further encouraged in their sinful lifestyle. Now, if I said, "Let's make it illegal to have songs about sin...", then I could understand the Stalin correlation.....

Your comment makes a HUGE leap in logic. If I listen to something that talks about sin, then I am encouraged in sin...right?

If that's the case, many sections of the Bible "promote" the details of sin...I guess I should burn my Bible.

If my memory serves me right, were you not a worship leader in your church? Why then would you be against such a practice of keeping clear of evil influences in music? Please enlighten us on that score.

Ok, another set of non-sequitors to address. First of all, I am not against the practice of keeping clear of evil influences in music. If you don't want "evil influences" in music then don't buy them.

I do not support the destruction of art...in any form. Period. I have given my reasons in previous posts.

However , if you like the idea of acting like a Nazi to "clean up" the realm of art..groovy. Go for it. I am not comfortable committing actions identical to Mao Tse Tung, Stalin and Hitler.

As far as what is an "evil influence": some churches hold that drums evoke too sensual a sound for it be "holy unto God." Other churches complain that not enough songs directly refer to Christ. In that sense, "Amazing Grace" should be considered evil (maybe it is!).

Further, many traditional hymns were sourced from Tavern drinking songs. Many bands and artists who originally had songs that "glorified" the secular have rewritten thoise same songs to be "holy" and "Christian" ("Some Kind Of Wonderful" by Grand Funk Railroad, for example).

Finally, I'd like to commend you for attacking the messenger in a personal way with your question. Always the last bastion for the unthinking fascist: attack the integrity of the messenger rather than truly address the POINTS made in the posts.

Art is supreme, above evil, worthy of preservation? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Neither you, nor anyone has the right to destroy art or artists. The step from advocating the destruction of art and advocating the destruction of artists is very small.

Yes, art and the written word NEED to be protected in order for you to have YOUR art and written word.

I don't know if you live in the US, but the US Constitution was written with this very idea in mind: that FREEDOM is the issue that MUST be defended (and I'm Canadian!). That FREEDOM includes expression..that includes art. As vile a some of the stuff is that is produced, you MUST protect it in order to protect yourself.

If you disagree, groovy. Just remember that you are denying a fundamental freedom in democracies if you want to seek out all the art and writings that you disagree with in order to "cleanse" your country of evil.

I REALLY THINK this is taking it a tad too far. If someone chooses to destro music of which they have bought and feel it was detrimental to their faith and may hurt others' faith as well....then it goes. It's his music, he can choose what he wants to do with it. He's not stealing EVERYONES music from the whole country and throwing it in the fire. Gosh lets all just relax and stick with what the thread is really asking. **I even remember the start of this thread talking about how the member did not want to turn this into a controversy of what is considered "bad" music...I believe this is exactly what has happened....?

[FailedChristian]

Just wondering if you're going to respond to what I had to say concerning the art debate.

I said it in my posts. I do not believe in censorship because once I unleash the hounds against THAT stuff, it won't be long before someone can unleash the hounds at my stuff.....

Again, who are YOU to judge what the intent of art is?

Also, your "studies" that prove that art that depicts sinful acts results in an increase in those acts by consumers of that art is sheer crap. Those studies have been flwaed to a point of laughability...spurious garbage. Under that assessment, I should have quite an appetite for war and killing given the text of the Old Testament...or a penchant for crucifying people with the content of the new Testament.

Burn your "evil" art, burn your "evil" books, torch the "evil" CD's and "evil" records..DESTROY IT ALL. Then look at what you've really done... You have done more evil than those articles may have ever done.

To destroy something because of its POTENTIAL is ignorant to the nth degree.

I have to thank the participants in this thread for moving me closer to leaving the faith altogether. Fascists.

[FailedChristian]

The only difference between throwing them away and burning them is that if you throw them away, some poor lost soul could pick them out of the trash and be further encouraged in their sinful lifestyle. Now, if I said, "Let's make it illegal to have songs about sin...", then I could understand the Stalin correlation.....

Your comment makes a HUGE leap in logic. If I listen to something that talks about sin, then I am encouraged in sin...right?

If that's the case, many sections of the Bible "promote" the details of sin...I guess I should burn my Bible.

If my memory serves me right, were you not a worship leader in your church? Why then would you be against such a practice of keeping clear of evil influences in music? Please enlighten us on that score.

Ok, another set of non-sequitors to address. First of all, I am not against the practice of keeping clear of evil influences in music. If you don't want "evil influences" in music then don't buy them.

I do not support the destruction of art...in any form. Period. I have given my reasons in previous posts.

However , if you like the idea of acting like a Nazi to "clean up" the realm of art..groovy. Go for it. I am not comfortable committing actions identical to Mao Tse Tung, Stalin and Hitler.

As far as what is an "evil influence": some churches hold that drums evoke too sensual a sound for it be "holy unto God." Other churches complain that not enough songs directly refer to Christ. In that sense, "Amazing Grace" should be considered evil (maybe it is!).

Further, many traditional hymns were sourced from Tavern drinking songs. Many bands and artists who originally had songs that "glorified" the secular have rewritten thoise same songs to be "holy" and "Christian" ("Some Kind Of Wonderful" by Grand Funk Railroad, for example).

Finally, I'd like to commend you for attacking the messenger in a personal way with your question. Always the last bastion for the unthinking fascist: attack the integrity of the messenger rather than truly address the POINTS made in the posts.

Art is supreme, above evil, worthy of preservation? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Neither you, nor anyone has the right to destroy art or artists. The step from advocating the destruction of art and advocating the destruction of artists is very small.

Yes, art and the written word NEED to be protected in order for you to have YOUR art and written word.

I don't know if you live in the US, but the US Constitution was written with this very idea in mind: that FREEDOM is the issue that MUST be defended (and I'm Canadian!). That FREEDOM includes expression..that includes art. As vile a some of the stuff is that is produced, you MUST protect it in order to protect yourself.

If you disagree, groovy. Just remember that you are denying a fundamental freedom in democracies if you want to seek out all the art and writings that you disagree with in order to "cleanse" your country of evil.

I REALLY THINK this is taking it a tad too far. If someone chooses to destro music of which they have bought and feel it was detrimental to their faith and may hurt others' faith as well....then it goes. It's his music, he can choose what he wants to do with it. He's not stealing EVERYONES music from the whole country and throwing it in the fire. Gosh lets all just relax and stick with what the thread is really asking. **I even remember the start of this thread talking about how the member did not want to turn this into a controversy of what is considered "bad" music...I believe this is exactly what has happened....?

When you talk of destroying something that someone created...you open the debate. Remember that when you buy a CD, you buy the RIGHT to USE that copyrighted material, not the right to DESTROY it.

I refer back to not the assessment of what is evil, but to the act of destroying art, however vile that artistic expression is.

[Floatingaxe]

Burn this thread--it's getting nasty.

[apothanein kerdos]

I said it in my posts. I do not believe in censorship because once I unleash the hounds against THAT stuff, it won't be long before someone can unleash the hounds at my stuff.....

Again, who are YOU to judge what the intent of art is?

As I stated, any art that celebrates sin, such as the objection of women, is not art and therefore can be censored.

Are you really going to advocate that songs which treat women as nothing more than sexual objects here to please men is art?

Besides, I am merely calling for all of us to engage in the art of burning...burning presents great images and if we can pass laws to ban distasteful art, then we are ourselves engaging in an art. Who are you to try and stop my artistic notions?

Also, your "studies" that prove that art that depicts sinful acts results in an increase in those acts by consumers of that art is sheer crap. Those studies have been flwaed to a point of laughability...spurious garbage. Under that assessment, I should have quite an appetite for war and killing given the text of the Old Testament...or a penchant for crucifying people with the content of the new Testament.

Uh oh, here comes the rhetoric train!

The study I linked on that blog was released just this month by some of the leading doctors in America. It was not done by Christians or for Christian purposes but instead to study the psychology of the adolescent mind when subjected to violent lyrics. It was put out in a leading scientific magazine (Pediatrics) and is a scientific study. Instead of just throwing rhetoric at it, refute it.

Obviously if you think you can, you must have your medical degree somewhere down the line, right?

How is it flawed? Who is laughing at it? Why is it garbage? The only "crap" I see is the rhetoric you are throwing at it without having even read it.

[Candi770]

FailedChristian,

I don't think they are advocating destroying all art. I think they are talking about destroying their own belongings because those things have influenced them in a wrong way. Who do you serve. If the Holy spirit asked you to lay down or give up a portion of your life-would you for his sake? Just wondering? I may have convictions for things I don't personally do because the Holy Spirit lead me that way. I would not force my convictions down your throat. So why are you Judging so harshly?

candi

[FailedChristian]

The only difference between throwing them away and burning them is that if you throw them away, some poor lost soul could pick them out of the trash and be further encouraged in their sinful lifestyle. Now, if I said, "Let's make it illegal to have songs about sin...", then I could understand the Stalin correlation.....

Your comment makes a HUGE leap in logic. If I listen to something that talks about sin, then I am encouraged in sin...right?

If that's the case, many sections of the Bible "promote" the details of sin...I guess I should burn my Bible.

If my memory serves me right, were you not a worship leader in your church? Why then would you be against such a practice of keeping clear of evil influences in music? Please enlighten us on that score.

Ok, another set of non-sequitors to address. First of all, I am not against the practice of keeping clear of evil influences in music. If you don't want "evil influences" in music then don't buy them.

I do not support the destruction of art...in any form. Period. I have given my reasons in previous posts.

However , if you like the idea of acting like a Nazi to "clean up" the realm of art..groovy. Go for it. I am not comfortable committing actions identical to Mao Tse Tung, Stalin and Hitler.

As far as what is an "evil influence": some churches hold that drums evoke too sensual a sound for it be "holy unto God." Other churches complain that not enough songs directly refer to Christ. In that sense, "Amazing Grace" should be considered evil (maybe it is!).

Further, many traditional hymns were sourced from Tavern drinking songs. Many bands and artists who originally had songs that "glorified" the secular have rewritten thoise same songs to be "holy" and "Christian" ("Some Kind Of Wonderful" by Grand Funk Railroad, for example).

Finally, I'd like to commend you for attacking the messenger in a personal way with your question. Always the last bastion for the unthinking fascist: attack the integrity of the messenger rather than truly address the POINTS made in the posts.

Art is supreme, above evil, worthy of preservation? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Neither you, nor anyone has the right to destroy art or artists. The step from advocating the destruction of art and advocating the destruction of artists is very small.

Yes, art and the written word NEED to be protected in order for you to have YOUR art and written word.

I don't know if you live in the US, but the US Constitution was written with this very idea in mind: that FREEDOM is the issue that MUST be defended (and I'm Canadian!). That FREEDOM includes expression..that includes art. As vile a some of the stuff is that is produced, you MUST protect it in order to protect yourself.

If you disagree, groovy. Just remember that you are denying a fundamental freedom in democracies if you want to seek out all the art and writings that you disagree with in order to "cleanse" your country of evil.

I REALLY THINK this is taking it a tad too far. If someone chooses to destro music of which they have bought and feel it was detrimental to their faith and may hurt others' faith as well....then it goes. It's his music, he can choose what he wants to do with it. He's not stealing EVERYONES music from the whole country and throwing it in the fire. Gosh lets all just relax and stick with what the thread is really asking. **I even remember the start of this thread talking about how the member did not want to turn this into a controversy of what is considered "bad" music...I believe this is exactly what has happened....?

1) What "MAY hurt their faith" is EVERYTHING... your statement is a moot statement

2) It is NOT "his music", it is the artist's music..unless you believe that stealing music is ok

3) He is considering destroying..an act most closely aligned to Satan, not God (remember that Satan comes a messenger of light and that we can easily be deceived by the very scriptures we hold to).

4) I'm not discussing his consideration of what is "bad", I'm responding to his question of what to do with the CD's.

5) He should be taking a step back and cooling his thoughts a bit before proceeding..I suggest a month or so...without heavy discussion on the topic.

6) I am not here to offend, simply to offer a chance for himj to think, an act that I find more and more Christians are afraid of.

[Guest SheepDog]

I have to thank the participants in this thread for moving me closer to leaving the faith altogether. Fascists.

Wow, "where's the love" FC,

you're getting pretty nasty with that Facists stuff

Colossians 4:6 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.

[WayneB]

Just wondering if you're going to respond to what I had to say concerning the art debate.

I said it in my posts. I do not believe in censorship because once I unleash the hounds against THAT stuff, it won't be long before someone can unleash the hounds at my stuff.....

Again, who are YOU to judge what the intent of art is?

Also, your "studies" that prove that art that depicts sinful acts results in an increase in those acts by consumers of that art is sheer crap. Those studies have been flwaed to a point of laughability...spurious garbage. Under that assessment, I should have quite an appetite for war and killing given the text of the Old Testament...or a penchant for crucifying people with the content of the new Testament.

Burn your "evil" art, burn your "evil" books, torch the "evil" CD's and "evil" records..DESTROY IT ALL. Then look at what you've really done... You have done more evil than those articles may have ever done.

To destroy something because of its POTENTIAL is ignorant to the nth degree.

I have to thank the participants in this thread for moving me closer to leaving the faith altogether. Fascists.

Leaving the FAITH? If you empower others in such a way, maybe you have yet to experience God in a dynamic and real way? NOTHING will separate me from the LOVE of God... NOTHING! Not one person here or anywhere went to a sinner's Cross to pay for my sin; but Jesus Christ did and He did when I was still His enemy.

Now to speak to your comment.

Yes, actually there is Biblical presedence for destroying by fire those things that lead to destruction. Read the Book of Acts about how Peter then Paul spread the Good News throughout hostile lands. When Paul was in Ephesus, "God did extraordinary miracles through Paul." [Acts 19:11]. Many Jews and Greeks who practiced sorcery "brought their scrolls together and burned them publicly. When they calculated the value of the scrolls, the total came to fifty thousand drachmas." [Acts 19:19] In today's dollars, that comes to about $5 million!!!! They burned them because they were junk!

Based on your words, you would have called it ART and held onto your scroll. It isn't art; it is junk. They knew it; they burned it.

Yes, you can argue that it can be a hard line to draw since we all seem to draw it differently. Some think rock music is evil; I don't. I judge my music not on the genre or the beat but by the message. Regardless, a line must be drawn between evil and good and the ONLY one who can is God as revealed in His Word. Evil is evil and has no place in a Christian's heart.

May the Lord Bless you richly,

Wayne

[FailedChristian]

FailedChristian,

I don't think they are advocating destroying all art. I think they are talking about destroying their own belongings because those things have influenced them in a wrong way. Who do you serve. If the Holy spirit asked you to lay down or give up a portion of your life-would you for his sake? Just wondering? I may have convictions for things I don't personally do because the Holy Spirit lead me that way. I would not force my convictions down your throat. So why are you Judging so harshly?

candi

I'm convinced that non-sequitors are a way of life here.

Ok, again, here we go:

1) I serve the Truth...and the One who holds that Truth, God.

2) The holy Spirit is a Counsellor, A Comforter and an Advisor...not a reigious extremist who wants "sacrifices" that include the sheddding of blood or thought.

3) I'm not the one judging...those who believe that certain CD's are "evil" have done that.

4) When a person advocates an action committed by the villains of history (destroying) in order to follow some hyper-religious, legalistic, extreme view, then I call it out into the Light of Reason, The Light of God.

5) The music on the CD's do not BELONG to them, the music belongs to the artist, or have you not been following trhe latest issues about downloaded music? You only buy the rights to the music temporarily. The artist retains all other rights. The Cd company retains all rights to the physical CD. You are licensing the product when you purchase the CD. Read about it. Look it up.