The Toronto Blessing, and Benny Hinn, etc

[nebula]

I was wondering what the other users of this forum thought regarding the supposed 'toronto blessing' and also the seemingly selfish and get rich quick ministries of Benny Hinn.

To set out my own position from the outset: I am highly suspicious of the Toronto Blessing, and, maybe just a little bit less suspicious of Benny Hinn.

I try to be very cautious regarding the truth of God's Word, and how it is preached. If a 'red flag' is raised regarding the preaching of God's word, I am very reluctant to be drawn in by the 'new' way of thinking. There is not much that I hate more than the polluting of His Word.

I believe in 'spiritual blessings' in these days, but maybe some churches are going too far?

I just don't know all the answers myself. Some I know are in favour of it, some against. What is the truth?

Hey Stephen -

I too struggle with this whole issue.

I have known the power and presence of the Lord, and I know He doesn't always act the way we think He ought to act. I mean, what did the people in Jerusalem think of the disciples in Acts 2?

On the other hand, look what happened to the Toronto Church - it got broken apart by division within the body. Was that because of spiritual deception, spiritual immaturity, or the work of Satan destroying what God meant to bring healing through.

It bothers me that 99% of the sceptics are those that believe the gifts of the Spirit died out 1900 years ago.

If you are wondering about the power of God, if it is real for today, go on a mission trip to Brazil or something like that. I've heard of missionaries to Haiti who didn't believe in the power of God and were run out. I have also heard of missionaries to Haiti who believed in the power of God and were able to defeat the witch doctors in the name of Jesus.

As for Benny Hinn, I tend to agree that some of the things he preaches (i.e. give ot get wealthy) are unScriptural - yet can we be certain everything we preach and teach to others are 100% correct? The Scriptures are full of examples of the Lord using people that didn't have it all right. Might the Lord be using Benny Hinn despite his errors? It's possible - after all, why hasn't he fallen yet with all the others who screwed up (i.e. Jimmy Swaggert)?

Just remember: "There but for the grace of God go I."

But if it's important to know whether you should regard these as spiritual authorities or not, you should do the same as you would with any believer - the same that the Bereans did whom Paul commended - they studied the Scriptures to see if his word was true.

Should you believe a teaching that comes out of Toronto? Compare it to Scripture and see! If one teaching is wrong, does it mean everything they say is wrong? No. Can anyone know all things about everything? We hit some, we miss some. So we always present our theology to the Lord and trust Him to lead us into all understanding. But at times He lets us wonder in wrong thinking so that we can discover the truth the hard way (most likely because this breaks our pride - especially when you discover how bad of an idiot we were! ).

Is the power of God real? Sure - our society just doesn't know how to handle it.

[FailedChristian]

There is no reason for this hypocrite label to be thrown around F.C. Personally, I don't watch Benny Hinn or any of the others mentioned and have great reservations about the things occuring at Toronto and Pensecola. I am Pentecostal, and so a lot of people try to lump me in with these Charasmatics, but we are not one and the same. The Charasmatics are basically a group of people that believe in the gifts of the Spirit and speaking in tongues as Pentecostals do, but they are very liberal in that they conform to the ways of the world, and attack anyone that dares to question anything they do, even if it is clearly unBiblical. Benny Hinn even went so far as to put a curse on anyone that speaks out against his anointing.

There are a lot of deceptions in these last days, and we need to be careful that what we are seeing lines up with the Bible.

Couldn't agree more heartily.

The hypocrite statement applies when a person decides that their agenda is the only statement that is valid.

I don't hold that view. I simply respond to postings.

[billie]

I'm very glad to be having the support of the members of this forum, it seems, regarding this. But why are the pastors, and associate pastors of my church succumbing to this, what I call deceptive nonsense? This is an issue which has deeply divided my church in recent years. Ok, I don't agree with the catholic and C of E style of church, which is staid, stagnant, etc, and do agree with freedom of worship, but where to draw the line? I despair, I really do.

Listen, in my opinion, the enemy in these days is more deceptive than we EVER gave him credit for. I know that Jesus is Lord of all. We must stand together to find a common ground for believing and speaking what we believe.

..."if it were possible, even the very elect would be deceived."

Respectfully disagree since you appear to be open to compromise to the truth of God's Word. I cannot stand together and find common ground with those who are in such error. People like Hinn use the term Jesus but it is not the Jesus of the Bible. His Jesus is nothing more than a genie from a bottle. Your pastors and associate pastors are deceived if they believe these things. At some point you must make a decision to either leave or risk making shipwreck of your own faith by staying.

sw

Not correct, St.Worm.

I am very wary at all times regarding these things. It's just that sometimes I seem to be in the minority here regarding these things. I left the church in question, a pentecostal, but am feeling very lonely and needy in recent months for fellowship of true Christians. Who is a true Christian nowadays?

None of the televangelists...that's for sure. I include Billy Graham.

no "fellowship" exists...start being a friend to the alien, to the dspossessed, to the widow, the orphan...Do you want as your inheriatnce the lost? Why go to try and find the found?

Go seek the lost...find true fellowship that way.

Please don't confuse the poster any further by implying a solid church and Christian fellowship are not of the ultimate importance for a believer. I don't know if you are one of the anti-church people that frequent this board but this is not the time for your agenda if so.

sw

Oh, it's time for YOUR agenda. (edit)

And, by the way I AM a christian, just anti-lies.

FC, I sure wish you'd stop with the name-calling. I nkow why you're angry, but we aren't the ones who hurt you. We aren't the ones you're really angry at. What you're doing here is abusive. You're hurting others in just the same way you've been hurt. It won't make the pain go away. You need help. You need to seek the help of a godly Christian counselor. Eventually you're going to cross the line somewhere with this abusive speech and there will be consequences for you. I'm praying for you. It breaks my heart to see a brother hurting so much.

[FailedChristian]

I'm very glad to be having the support of the members of this forum, it seems, regarding this. But why are the pastors, and associate pastors of my church succumbing to this, what I call deceptive nonsense? This is an issue which has deeply divided my church in recent years. Ok, I don't agree with the catholic and C of E style of church, which is staid, stagnant, etc, and do agree with freedom of worship, but where to draw the line? I despair, I really do.

Listen, in my opinion, the enemy in these days is more deceptive than we EVER gave him credit for. I know that Jesus is Lord of all. We must stand together to find a common ground for believing and speaking what we believe.

..."if it were possible, even the very elect would be deceived."

Respectfully disagree since you appear to be open to compromise to the truth of God's Word. I cannot stand together and find common ground with those who are in such error. People like Hinn use the term Jesus but it is not the Jesus of the Bible. His Jesus is nothing more than a genie from a bottle. Your pastors and associate pastors are deceived if they believe these things. At some point you must make a decision to either leave or risk making shipwreck of your own faith by staying.

sw

Not correct, St.Worm.

I am very wary at all times regarding these things. It's just that sometimes I seem to be in the minority here regarding these things. I left the church in question, a pentecostal, but am feeling very lonely and needy in recent months for fellowship of true Christians. Who is a true Christian nowadays?

None of the televangelists...that's for sure. I include Billy Graham.

no "fellowship" exists...start being a friend to the alien, to the dspossessed, to the widow, the orphan...Do you want as your inheriatnce the lost? Why go to try and find the found?

Go seek the lost...find true fellowship that way.

Please don't confuse the poster any further by implying a solid church and Christian fellowship are not of the ultimate importance for a believer. I don't know if you are one of the anti-church people that frequent this board but this is not the time for your agenda if so.

sw

Oh, it's time for YOUR agenda. Hypocrite.

And, by the way I AM a christian, just anti-lies.

FC, I sure wish you'd stop with the name-calling. I nkow why you're angry, but we aren't the ones who hurt you. We aren't the ones you're really angry at. What you're doing here is abusive. You're hurting others in just the same way you've been hurt. It won't make the pain go away. You need help. You need to seek the help of a godly Christian counselor. Eventually you're going to cross the line somewhere with this abusive speech and there will be consequences for you. I'm praying for you. It breaks my heart to see a brother hurting so much.

Consequences? That sounds like lawsuit.

Ok, I would like to apologize to those of you who have decided to take offence at my posts.

I have been called a hypocrite enough times by so-called Christians that I guess I let spill out my anger.

You can be rest-assured that I will behave myself from now on.

Again, my sincere apologies.

[David H.]

I'm glad to see such smart responses about the Toronto Blessing and Benny Hinn. I was thinking about Benny Hinn last night in my prayers. So it was refreshing to see that his foolishness is apparent to so many and that it was on someone else's mind, too.

I've been to one church meeting that was all about experiencing the Toronto Blessing and to one Benny Hinn in Vancouver, B.C. It was obvious to me, as I sat and watched the silliness of the Toronto Blessing how it worked. Five-hundred people gathered because they wanted a new experience of the Holy Spirit. We waited, and eventually someone started to giggle a little. Then someone next to them started to laugh, and then someone laughed and snorted, and then most of the congregation started laughing and this went on for twenty minutes as a wonderful work of the Spirit. java script:emoticon('',%20'smid_3')

Oops, stop. Work of the Spirit? I think not. Haven't those people heard that Hollywood puts laugh tracks in sitcoms because laughing is contagious. Haven't they heard of comedians planting a couple of people in the audience because even two people laughing can get the crowd started. Haven't we all experienced the situation where we're waiting intensely for something big to happen. All is quiet, and then someone snorts, and the people around them laugh, and then everyone begins to laugh. Come on! It's so obvious. That's exactly how mass hysteria works. java script:emoticon('',%20'smid_2')

As for Benny Hinn: He arrived in a black limo and left in a black limo. He was wearing a Rolex watch and a big gold ring and mighty-fine suit, and every guest he had come on stage was also wearing a Rolex watch ... as if they were handing them out back stage to present an image of prosperity. He preaches divine prosperity for the righteous, and the New Testament warned that false teachers in the last days would preach "godliness as a means to financial gain." Hmm. Sound a little close?

I was saying to God last night that I can understand why he commanded the Jews to stone false prophets. The Christian church seems to be plagued with false prophets, who always say, when you try to test their words, "A wicked generation looks for a sign," as if they should be above such tests, which only reveals how much ego is involved. java script:emoticon('',%20'smid_19')

--David

[Leonard]

OH NOOOOOOOO! Someone said the B. H. word!!!!!

Around here that's always a sure invite for the rabidness of those who can forgive ANYTHING except success!

[nebula]

I am Pentecostal, and so a lot of people try to lump me in with these Charasmatics, but we are not one and the same. The Charasmatics are basically a group of people that believe in the gifts of the Spirit and speaking in tongues as Pentecostals do, but they are very liberal in that they conform to the ways of the world, and attack anyone that dares to question anything they do, even if it is clearly unBiblical.

Hey!

Pentecostal, like Assembly of God, is a denomination.

Charasmatics are multi-denominational. I've even been to a Charasmatic Baptist church!

Generally, we are just people who have come to experience what the disciples did in Acts 2. Unfortunately, it got corrupted by the "health and wealth" doctrine by personas who became considered leaders for no other reason than that they got programs on radio and TV.

But liberal? We tend to be more evangelical, conservative leaning.

[FailedChristian]

OH NOOOOOOOO! Someone said the B. H. word!!!!!

Around here that's always a sure invite for the rabidness of those who can forgive ANYTHING except success!

Wow, accusatory AND a non-sequitor...how truly disgusting! Like looking at a remarkably well-formed chub of phlegm...you're impressed and repelled at the same time!

Bravo!

[FailedChristian]

I am Pentecostal, and so a lot of people try to lump me in with these Charasmatics, but we are not one and the same. The Charasmatics are basically a group of people that believe in the gifts of the Spirit and speaking in tongues as Pentecostals do, but they are very liberal in that they conform to the ways of the world, and attack anyone that dares to question anything they do, even if it is clearly unBiblical.

Hey!

Pentecostal, like Assembly of God, is a denomination.

Charasmatics are multi-denominational. I've even been to a Charasmatic Baptist church!

Generally, we are just people who have come to experience what the disciples did in Acts 2. Unfortunately, it got corrupted by the "health and wealth" doctrine by personas who became considered leaders for no other reason than that they got programs on radio and TV.

But liberal? We tend to be more evangelical, conservative leaning.

I guess you could say I am old-line Pentecostal. I am not a member of any church at this time, but a church I have visited that is at least close to what I believe has a web-site at http://www.pawcreek.org Pastor Chambers calls it classical Pentecostalism, but it is basically what Pentecostals used to be before the 60s charasmatic movement took over many of the churches.

Could you explain what tyhat was like? It predates me.

[nebula]

OH NOOOOOOOO! Someone said the B. H. word!!!!!

Around here that's always a sure invite for the rabidness of those who can forgive ANYTHING except success!

Wow, accusatory AND a non-sequitor...how truly disgusting! Like looking at a remarkably well-formed chub of phlegm...you're impressed and repelled at the same time!

Bravo!

It's called experience.

No other topic ruffles people's feathers so bad around here as the words "Benny Hinn."

It happens all the time.

Please, lighten up a little!

Edited August 10, 2006 by nebula