Dangerous Heresy

[methinkshe]

I am grateful for this thread because our pastor has recently attended a Hinn conference and came back full of admiration for the man and his ministry. I'd already come across him and other WoF preachers (I got sucked in 20 years ago and it took me five years to see the light) so all the alarm bells started to ring. I particularly didn't like a couple of BH practices that our pastor seemed to imitate - namely a thumb and fingers hold around the chin/mouth area of the face, and too much prancing up and down with sudden outbursts of shouting. The David Wilkerson sermon is particularly helpful - I've read as much as I want to read of BH's heresies, to be honest, and was grateful for the wherewithal to counter them. It's so sad to see lovely men of God, truly born again, sucked into this deceit. Yet I cannot talk - I, too, succumbed. I can only pray that the Lord will quickly open the eyes of oour pastor. The saddest thing is that it is his very hunger to move the fellowship forward with Jesus and not just sit around in the safety of church-on-Sunday, that he has fallen into the trap of ewxperience above sound doctrine.

I have not yet challenged him and I am not sure that it is my place to do so - I'm waiting on the Lord to know how to respond to our pastor's approval of a man whom I KNOW is not speaking the Words of God. I do n=know that I could not, at the moment, place myself under his spiritual authority as pastor and teacher of our fellowship.

Ruth

I really appreciated your post. It's very balanced and graceful. It's encouraging to see that the Lord led you out of that and opened your eyes, and also that you understand the need to confront your pastor on it. I'll be praying for you and your pastor. The part I placed in bold really stuck out to me too. Unfortunately, the "experience" over sound doctrine trap is one that MANY believers (of ALL denominations) are falling into.

Thank you so much - I truly thank God for your willingness to pray for us. I do so need your prayers because as a woman who lacks a Christian husband to be her spritual head, I sometimes feel very exposed and all too capable of going off on a wrong tack. I often think to myself; who am I to judge? But then I remember that there is judge/discern and judge/condemn. It is not my place to do the latter but it is my duty to do the former. And if by the Holy Spirit I discern a false spirit, then I guess I have to confront that. But I do so hate confrontation - please Lord guide me and give me strength at the right moment in your good time, and the right words, too.

Maybe AK (if you read this) could instruct a little more on the Greek word(s) that are translated as "judgment" - he seems to know Greek, although I am sure there are other Worthy members that also know Greek, it's just that I haven't yet discovered them. I'm sure there are different Greek words for judge/discern and judge/condemn, but I am not a Biblical scholar, just a woman who loves God's truth - His Word, so I would be more than grateful to be instructed by someone who is more informed than I am. But I guess that would be going off topic. Perhaps a new thread....please?

In Jesus

Ruth

[apothanein kerdos]

Oy, judge has MANY aspects behind it.

krino in the Greek packs a lot of meanings. The negative aspect (seen in Matthew 7:1) can refer to judging on arbitrary standards.

Other times, however, we are called to judge. It refers to separating, to approve something - essentially, to discern.

I would say the best way to approach your pastor is to write out a letter and read it to him. Often, when you are placed in a controversial situation like that, you can get flustered or lose forget to say something you wanted to. If you write it out before hand (double spaced) and keep it below three pages, it would be okay to go in and read it to the pastor. Explain to him that you want to make sure it's articulate, which is why you're reading the letter to him. If he's not even willing to hear that, he's not worthy of being your pastor.

Let him give you his response, and if you don't like it, don't respond. Let him say what he thinks, and if you don't like it, I'd highly suggest you leave the church.

[methinkshe]

Oy, judge has MANY aspects behind it.

krino in the Greek packs a lot of meanings. The negative aspect (seen in Matthew 7:1) can refer to judging on arbitrary standards.

Other times, however, we are called to judge. It refers to separating, to approve something - essentially, to discern.

I would say the best way to approach your pastor is to write out a letter and read it to him. Often, when you are placed in a controversial situation like that, you can get flustered or lose forget to say something you wanted to. If you write it out before hand (double spaced) and keep it below three pages, it would be okay to go in and read it to the pastor. Explain to him that you want to make sure it's articulate, which is why you're reading the letter to him. If he's not even willing to hear that, he's not worthy of being your pastor.

Let him give you his response, and if you don't like it, don't respond. Let him say what he thinks, and if you don't like it, I'd highly suggest you leave the church.

Thank you, AK, that sounds like good advice.

As an aside, what's with the "oy" bit? Am I missing something or are you just calling my attention to what you have to say? As in, "Oy, you..." I can be very stupid sometimes. Just wondered....

Ruth

Edited May 21, 2007 by methinkshe

[apothanein kerdos]

Oy, judge has MANY aspects behind it.

krino in the Greek packs a lot of meanings. The negative aspect (seen in Matthew 7:1) can refer to judging on arbitrary standards.

Other times, however, we are called to judge. It refers to separating, to approve something - essentially, to discern.

I would say the best way to approach your pastor is to write out a letter and read it to him. Often, when you are placed in a controversial situation like that, you can get flustered or lose forget to say something you wanted to. If you write it out before hand (double spaced) and keep it below three pages, it would be okay to go in and read it to the pastor. Explain to him that you want to make sure it's articulate, which is why you're reading the letter to him. If he's not even willing to hear that, he's not worthy of being your pastor.

Let him give you his response, and if you don't like it, don't respond. Let him say what he thinks, and if you don't like it, I'd highly suggest you leave the church.

Thank you, AK, that sounds like good advice.

As an aside, what's with the "oy" bit? Am I missing something or are you just calling my attention to what you have to say? As in, "Oy, you..." I can be very stupid sometimes. Just wondered....

Ruth

It's a Yiddish (Eastern European Hebrew basically) expression of surprise. It's like saying "Oh my," only it's "oy vey."

[methinkshe]

Oy, judge has MANY aspects behind it.

krino in the Greek packs a lot of meanings. The negative aspect (seen in Matthew 7:1) can refer to judging on arbitrary standards.

Other times, however, we are called to judge. It refers to separating, to approve something - essentially, to discern.

I would say the best way to approach your pastor is to write out a letter and read it to him. Often, when you are placed in a controversial situation like that, you can get flustered or lose forget to say something you wanted to. If you write it out before hand (double spaced) and keep it below three pages, it would be okay to go in and read it to the pastor. Explain to him that you want to make sure it's articulate, which is why you're reading the letter to him. If he's not even willing to hear that, he's not worthy of being your pastor.

Let him give you his response, and if you don't like it, don't respond. Let him say what he thinks, and if you don't like it, I'd highly suggest you leave the church.

Thank you, AK, that sounds like good advice.

As an aside, what's with the "oy" bit? Am I missing something or are you just calling my attention to what you have to say? As in, "Oy, you..." I can be very stupid sometimes. Just wondered....

Ruth

It's a Yiddish (Eastern European Hebrew basically) expression of surprise. It's like saying "Oh my," only it's "oy vey."

Why, thankyou. And that's a kind of archaic rhetorical question!!! I do so love to learn.

Blessings in Jesus,

Ruth

[LadyRaven]

I am grateful for this thread because our pastor has recently attended a Hinn conference and came back full of admiration for the man and his ministry. I'd already come across him and other WoF preachers (I got sucked in 20 years ago and it took me five years to see the light) so all the alarm bells started to ring. I particularly didn't like a couple of BH practices that our pastor seemed to imitate - namely a thumb and fingers hold around the chin/mouth area of the face, and too much prancing up and down with sudden outbursts of shouting. The David Wilkerson sermon is particularly helpful - I've read as much as I want to read of BH's heresies, to be honest, and was grateful for the wherewithal to counter them. It's so sad to see lovely men of God, truly born again, sucked into this deceit. Yet I cannot talk - I, too, succumbed. I can only pray that the Lord will quickly open the eyes of oour pastor. The saddest thing is that it is his very hunger to move the fellowship forward with Jesus and not just sit around in the safety of church-on-Sunday, that he has fallen into the trap of ewxperience above sound doctrine.

I have not yet challenged him and I am not sure that it is my place to do so - I'm waiting on the Lord to know how to respond to our pastor's approval of a man whom I KNOW is not speaking the Words of God. I do n=know that I could not, at the moment, place myself under his spiritual authority as pastor and teacher of our fellowship.

Ruth

I really appreciated your post. It's very balanced and graceful. It's encouraging to see that the Lord led you out of that and opened your eyes, and also that you understand the need to confront your pastor on it. I'll be praying for you and your pastor. The part I placed in bold really stuck out to me too. Unfortunately, the "experience" over sound doctrine trap is one that MANY believers (of ALL denominations) are falling into.

Thank you so much - I truly thank God for your willingness to pray for us. I do so need your prayers because as a woman who lacks a Christian husband to be her spritual head, I sometimes feel very exposed and all too capable of going off on a wrong tack. I often think to myself; who am I to judge? But then I remember that there is judge/discern and judge/condemn. It is not my place to do the latter but it is my duty to do the former. And if by the Holy Spirit I discern a false spirit, then I guess I have to confront that. But I do so hate confrontation - please Lord guide me and give me strength at the right moment in your good time, and the right words, too.

Maybe AK (if you read this) could instruct a little more on the Greek word(s) that are translated as "judgment" - he seems to know Greek, although I am sure there are other Worthy members that also know Greek, it's just that I haven't yet discovered them. I'm sure there are different Greek words for judge/discern and judge/condemn, but I am not a Biblical scholar, just a woman who loves God's truth - His Word, so I would be more than grateful to be instructed by someone who is more informed than I am. But I guess that would be going off topic. Perhaps a new thread....please?

In Jesus

Ruth

I am greatful that you shared this experience myself. i used to be involved with the WOF movement myself and I am still all these years later still soft when it comes to "experiences."

[LadyRaven]

Just bumping this topic to get it back in the discussion. Or to have people read it at least.

[Xan]

"Before he died on the cross he was sexually abused by the Roman gaurds.(KC)"

What?!? I've heard a good majority of the heritical teachings having grown up in a WoF church and having been dragged to charasmatic revival meetings, but this is one I had not heard.

[Leonard]

Many regard it as a heresy because it has the audacity to simply BELIEVE GOD'S WORD AS IT WAS SPOKEN.

[Xan]

Many regard it as a heresy because it has the audacity to simply BELIEVE GOD'S WORD AS IT WAS SPOKEN.

Regard what as heresy?