Why Christians believe Jesus Christ in more than a Carpenter!

[WayneB]

Praise God!

Praise HIM forever and ever.

The TRUTH isn't just found in Scripture BUT it is also found in RELATIONSHIP.

When I was lost, it was people sharing their witness that got my attention. It is good to reevaluate why we believe and to share that simple truth with those who do not. No arguements, no long posts with Scripture, no name-calling but simply... "let me tell you about my God".

May the Lord Bless you saints,

Wayne

[tah]

The example of the ant hill was great...I was blessed..

I know He is because "I once was blind but now I see.."

I am not usually given words to express my love relationship with Him..

mostly I can only tell people "ask Him with an open willing heart to hear Him and you will"...

He is beyond faithful..there are not words to express His love and care for His children..

[Anne]

How to explain to you what Jesus means to me?

You know this is really hard to put into words, I love Him so much because of everything He did for me, He loved me so much that He died for me, of every gift that I have ever received in my life time this is the only one I cherish. This gift of Salvation which He gave me, was and is not something which I deserve. Without Jesus, I could not have changed from the person I was to the person I am, now I've still got a ways to go, but loving Jesus has changed me, where there was a hard and bitter heart there is now a heart of compassion, the ability to understand, a love for other people who previously I would not have considered even thinking about, the ability to truely laugh. When I walk past people in the street now, I always wonder, will I see them in Heaven. And I cannot explain to you just how much it breaks my heart that I might not.

I'm going to leave you with some scripture that I think explains what Jesus was and is about:-

Isaiah 55

v1

Ho, everyone that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.

v2

Wherefore do ye spend money for that which is not bread? and your labour for that which satisfieth not? hearken diligently unto me, and eat that which is good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness.

v3

Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.

God open your eyes and heart my friend, I hope to see you in Heaven.

Anne

[KarenJo5]

I know Jesus is more than a carpenter because in my life every single time I have thought I had hit bottom, ready to just give in, that still soft voice speaks.You are my child so how can you be defeated when I am here to lift you up?He died on the cross to save such a dirty,filthy person as me.On the day he saved me,He saw ME, a young country girl,lost and wandering and said"Come into my arms".

All of my battles are already won. HE has allready fought them all and conquered with his precious blood.

Such love, such grace, such an awesome,awesome Lord and friend. Amen

[Bolts]

Jesus was a carpenter because he learnt his trade from Joseph.

Jesus was and is devine, because he was born of God - not made like Adam and Eve, but born by the power of the Holy Spirit through a holy virgin - he is the son of God

Supernatural not Natural, born without sin and not of sin.

[mohammad99]

Saints,

I am starting this thread for our friend, mohammad99, who wants to know more about the "divinity of Jesus Christ". He indicated that he would like to discuss it from the perspective of the Bible with supporting Scripture from both the old and new Testaments.

I am opening this discussing up for all believers in Jesus Christ and kindly ask others to show restraint and simply follow the thread. I..................

Therefore, this thread is for us to ............engage mohammad in worthy discussion regarding the Christian FAITH.

The question then is simply, "Why Christians believe Jesus Christ in more than a Carpenter!"

May the Lord Bless you richly,

Wayne

Hi Mr Wayne ;

Thanks for inviting me to discuss the topic you have opened. I am a Muslim in a 'Christan' website; and I was told to discuss the 'Christian' creed using 'christian' references only. And I accept.

I have visited the site many times to see how the topic develops. I have found that the discussions are slow almost boring. so, I think from now on a flood of 'Christian'contributions will flow to turn the mill

Mr Wayne presented from the Book of john what he thinks proofs that Christ (peace be upon him) is Divine/ G*d. These are :

Jesus Christ stated ---

1_I AM THE BREAD OF LIFE [John 6:35]

2_I AM THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD [John 8:12]

3_I AM THE GATE FOR THE SHEEP [John 10:7,9]

4_I AM THE GOOD SHEPHERD [John10:11,14]

5_I AM THE RESURRECTION AND THE LIFE [John 11:25-27]

6_I AM THE WAY, TRUTH, AND THE LIFE [John 14:6]

7_I AM THE TRUE VINE [John 15:1,5]

8_I AM THE KING [John 18:37]

9_"Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father." [John 14:9b]

10_ "Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves." [John 14:10,11]

11_ When Jesus told the crowd of Jews, "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" [John 8:58] How did they respond? ...they picked up stones to stone him! Why? Using a reference back to what God said to Moses, Jesus made it clear... "I AM God!!!

My comments:

1_ The word (bread) is not to be taken literally. Just as the real bread is a means of our survival in this world; so Christ is a means of our survival now and on the Day of Judgement.If we read the CONTEXT WITH THE EYES OF THE MIND ( John 6: 26-51) we understand that the word (bread) means Christ's divine teaching, guidance,light etc. In ( John 6:27), Jesus is reported to says : (( Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. On him God the Father has placed his seal of approval."))

(( 35Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty.))

((48I am the bread of life. 49Your forefathers ate the manna in the desert, yet they died. 50But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which a man may eat and not die.))

Even Christ himself depends on the Guidance of his Creator to survive. It is reported in (John 6:57) his saying: (( 57Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.))

In ( Matthew 16:6-12) Christ explains clearly that (bread) means the divine teaching he preaches : ((6"Be careful," Jesus said to them. "Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees."

7They discussed this among themselves and said, "It is because we didn't bring any bread." 8Aware of their discussion, Jesus asked, ".......... 9Do you still not understand? ...... 11How is it you don't understand that I was not talking to you about bread? But be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees." 12Then they understood that he was not telling them to guard against the yeast used in bread, but against the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.))

Mr Wayne, the verse does Not corroborate the idea that Christ is God. Your interretation of the verse is too far-fetched !!

A note: In a sense, Muslim can/ must believe christ is the bread of life because he saved many people from the Death (= Allah's disgace; Hell) . Christ was a source of the True Life ( Allah's blessing and rewards ). The other prophets were the bread of life, too : Adam; Abraham, Moses, Lot.......(and Mohammad! ).

Mr Wayne says the following verse refers to the supposed Divinity of Jesus:

2_I AM THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD [John 8:12]

Yes, Christ was/is the light of the world. it means he is the guide to Allah. Without prophets we cannot ,for sure, know our Creator Allah. They are our eyes to distnguish between good and evil. Byt this verse does NOT tell us Jesus is God !!

Mr Wayne B. brings in the third "proof" that Jusus is G*d incarnate. This is it :

3_I AM THE GATE FOR THE SHEEP [John 10:7,9]

Yes, Christ and any prophet or holy man is a gate to Allah. Through their doors /guidance we peep into to the magnificent, majestic acquaintance with Allah.So, the verse doesn't any hint that Christ was/is G*d or Allah.

Mr Wayne B. quoted:

4_I AM THE GOOD SHEPHERD [John10:11,14]

Yes , Christ and all prophets are good shepherds. They have guarded their people from the snare of the Freat Wolf __ Satan and his kins.

(to be continued )

Take Care !!

P.S. I hope that my post won't get blocked. Muslims , Christians and Jews are to come together to better know each other . And every one of us is certain that there is One True Way to Allah. So, let us look for it ant take it before we rue the day we were born. may Our Creator,who wants our good, lead us to that True; safe Way. Aameen !!

[WayneB]

The other prophets were the bread of life, too : Adam; Abraham, Moses, Lot.......(and Mohammad! ).

Abdullah, NONE other than Jesus Christ claimed to be "I AM". Jesus spoke, "before Abraham was born, I am!"

P.S. I hope that my post won't get blocked. Muslims , Christians and Jews are to come together to better know each other . And every one of us is certain that there is One True Way to Allah. So, let us look for it ant take it before we rue the day we were born. may Our Creator,who wants our good, lead us to that True; safe Way. Aameen !!

Jesus Christ said, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me". Abdullah my friend, Jesus Christ was clear that there is ONE TRUE WAY to the Father and it is through HIM and no other.

Abdullah, as I wrote in my last email to you, which you never answered: Jesus Christ made it clear. He went to the cross willingly. He laid down His own life for all of us. It was the ultimate sacrifice. The greatest pain though was not the "torturing, goring, blood-spilling, crying" BUT rather it was the rejection of man and the separation from the Father. It didn't end there friend because through it all, Jesus conquered death and sin. He was resurrected and walked the earth for weeks after as witnessed by his followers, his half-brother James and many more. The greatest pain that God experiences is when we reject HIM. I pray you open your heart and mind to HIS truth and come to know Jesus Christ as Lord & Savior. You will have to set aside tradition and culture and may even lose some family & friends over it but Jesus made it clear... He did not come to bring peace! He stated, "But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven."

Jesus Christ is more than a carpenter, more than a prophet...He is God and His Word makes it clear. The questions for you is what or who will be your source of redemption? Your works or His?

May the Lord Bless you richly,

Wayne

[mohammad99]

The other prophets were the bread of life, too : Adam; Abraham, Moses, Lot.......(and Mohammad! ).

Abdullah, NONE other than Jesus Christ claimed to be "I AM". Jesus spoke, "before Abraham was born, I am!"

..........

Jesus Christ said, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me". Abdullah my friend, Jesus Christ was clear that there is ONE TRUE WAY to the Father and it is through HIM and no other.

..........

May the Lord Bless you richly,

Wayne

Hi Mr Wayne!

We have agreed to discuss now a particular point which is the alleged Divinity of Christ ( = Christ is G*d as you say ). But here you have brought in a new topic which is Crucification. I will write about 'Crucifiction' after we finish the first topic __ the alleged Divinity of Christ. Let us limit the discussion!

Jesus Christ said, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me".

This verse does NOT tell us that Jesus is G*d.

Yes, he was the Way to Allah because without him many people wouldn't have known the Creator.

*** Yes, he was the Truth because what he preached or did was the exact thing Almighty liked.

*** Yes, Christ was the Life because without his coming many people would have perished spiritually. We live the real Life when we manifest our allegiance to and bond to The One Creator.This is the real life that ALL prophets wanted us to follow. If we go on the steps of Satan and his army we are doomed; and this is the real Death.

*** Yes, no one could come close to Allah except through Jesus because he was the only saint person who knew and worshipped Allah the most. ALL prophets were the ONLY ways to Almighty because they were Allah's Chosen 'ambassadors' to their people.

It is very strange that the idea of Trinity / the Divinity of Christ was never ever mentioned by any prophet. And it is very stange too that 'Christians' ( as an Arabic saying goes) "twist the necks of a text " in order to prove something non-existent, illogical and undreamed of.

Mr Wayne,your interpretations of the verse are too far-fetched. If Chris was G*d , he would have said it plainly and publicly because the idea is a matter of Life and Death. He was not short of words.

Meet you soon incha Allah ( =G*d willing)

Take Care !!

Edited September 20, 2006 by mohammad99

[WayneB]

Jesus Christ said, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me".

This verse does NOT tell us that Jesus is G*d.

Yes it does Abdullah...IF you put the words of Jesus Christ in the proper context.

It is not possible to grasp the true meaning of the words of Jesus without putting them in context to Hebraic culture and rabbinic tradition. When we study John 14:6, we must consider the message as it relates to the Tabernacle of God...His dwelling place among men. Prior to the Cross, the Tabernacle of God was a man-made dwelling and only accessible to the Jew; God NOW dwells in every man who has accepted HIM into his heart through the Blood sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Praise God forever!

When Jesus said that He is the Way, the Truth and the Life, he was making it clear:

[WayneB]

Mr Wayne,your interpretations of the verse are too far-fetched. If Chris was G*d , he would have said it plainly and publicly because the idea is a matter of Life and Death. He was not short of words.

He did Abdullah. Why do you think the public tried to stone Him when he said, "I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I am!" [re: John 8:58] He was either God OR He was committing blasphemy!