Proof in the existance of God

[sagz4Christ]

I would like to know if that is where you lean, and also would like to hear alittle bit about why.

If, of course, that is alright with you...

Could you clarify this a little more, please, I don't know what you want to know.

You see how tired I am? hehehehe....after rereading what I wrote, I can see where you got confused. It has me wondering what I was asking for. I suppose I was just trying to "get to know you alittle better." Where do you live? What do you look like? What is your sign? HAAHAHAHA!! Just kidding around....

Nevermind about that last statement. You answered the main question about empericism. That is what I would like to focus on now.

You have conceded a SMALL possibility that there is a god who created things, but then you went on to say that there is no way to know if that god is the Christian God. I think you stated, "BUT" you don't believe the evidence points that way. You have asked for time and again emperical evidence and verifiable proof there is a God and that He created the universe.

This principle of verifiability goes hand in hand with the philosophy of empericism. I assume you are familiar with this principle? It is the scientific approach that says nothing is verifiable that can't be tested empirically, right?

I ask, and pause to make sure I am on the right track.

on to a different thought, back to our original line of thinking for a minute:

Just so you know, about the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, I am merely trying to give a good reason to believe that something other than matter an energy exist.  I know the Law doesn't specifically state anything about design, or order, but it states the opposite.  That things go from order, to disorder.

My reasoning is merely taking things back one step at a time.  Right now, I am not trying to bait you hook line and sinker into anything.  I am just trying to show you a reason to believe that something other than matter and energy exists.  We can go as slow as you want, and to be honest, I will need to go slower than you probably.

You know, that does make sense. I can see how you read it, but it's like using a screwdriver as a chisel, you should only use tools for their intended puposes, and the law isn't really meant for anything other than entropy. Going back is a whole different subject, also. Truthfully, that is an argument I've never heard the 2nd Law used for, and it shows that you have a logical mind.

Actually, I would liken it to looking at every aspect of a tool. Though a screwdriver is smaller and not as sharp as a chisel, it can fit into smaller spaces and can sometimes serve to pinpoint an area a chisel isn't designed to go.

Likewise, my use of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics (I just like the sound of that word...thermodynamics....anyway) is looking at where this supposed order comes from. As I stated earlier, matter an energy tend toward disorder. That means there has to be order in them from somewhere. Since they can't order themselves, and since nothing comes from nothing, something other than matter and energy must have existed to create matter and energy. This is the only logical way to account for the existence of matter and energy to begin with.

~serving Christ in faith

[Fovezer]

You see how tired I am?  hehehehe....after rereading what I wrote, I can see where you got confused.  It has me wondering what I was asking for.  I suppose I was just trying to "get to know you alittle better."  Where do you live?  What do you look like?  What is your sign?  HAAHAHAHA!!  Just kidding around....

I know what you mean, after this post, I'm hitting the sack!!!

You have conceded a SMALL possibility that there is a god who created things, but then you went on to say that there is no way to know if that god is the Christian God.  I think you stated, "BUT" you don't believe the evidence points that way.  You have asked for time and again emperical evidence and verifiable proof there is a God and that He created the universe.

Yes, I think it is possible that a god could have created the universe. Could it have been the Christian god? Maybe. Could it have been some other god? Maybe. Do I think the evidence points that way? No.

This principle of verifiability goes hand in hand with the philosophy of empericism.  I assume you are familiar with this principle?  It is the scientific approach that says nothing is verifiable that can't be tested empirically, right?

From M-W:

Main Entry: em

[Matthitjah]

Fovezer,

I am going to apologize for my last post.

You see this comes from a relationship with the Risen Lord Jesus Christ.

Charity doesn't come cheap. It is very expensive. It cost the blood of G-ds Son.

I will Pray for you.

Love is more than an emotion. It is an act as well.

So here is my Lords Love. I apologize if I offended you. I will not apologize for what I know to be true. I am not ashamed of Jesus Christ nor the Gospel . However I am ashamed of my lack of charity.

I have free will. I make a free will offering to my Lord Jesus. My opinion and my suppositions and my pride about fovezer I sacrifice Lord. So that this man might find Grace.

I pray that your free will someday will lead you to the Cross.

Peace,

Dave

[Fovezer]

I am going to apologize for my last post.

Thank you.

You see this comes from a relationship with the Risen Lord Jesus Christ.

I understand.

I will Pray for you.

This is actually offensive to atheists, because you are really saying, "I know the truth, and you are just lost."

I accept your apology and thank you for it.

-=Fovezer=-

[Fovezer]

Life from non-life was accomplished by Dr. Sidney Fox, in the form of protocells, and he was nominated for a Nobel Peace prize. Even the Pope found his work amazing.

USA scientist credited with discovering life's origins

[Dr. Sidney Fox's] Scientific Discussions of Evolution for the Pope and His Scientists

Will post more later

-=Fovezer=-

[artsylady]

Fovezer: I didn't see anywhere mentioned that he was nominated for a Nobel Prize.

Here's why he probably was not.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/...cs/v16n2_aw.asp

Fovezer: What kind of evidence for the God of the Bible would be acceptable to you?

Why do you get so offended when people say they'll pray for you, or insinuate that you are lost. If a Muslim told me he would pray for me, I'm sure I would thank them and secretly find it very funny. I'm wondering why you're so sensitive about this.

[WayneB]

My dear brother Dave,

God's grace is reflected all though your post. Thank you for inspiring me to be a better servant of our Risen Lord Jesus Christ. I also will continue to pray for and share my thoughts with our friend Fovezer.

Fovezer, I just stopped by the office and read the latest posts to catch up. I will post something tomorrow in response. I just couldn't pass up expressing my thoughts and how impressed I was that you don't hold grudges. Your response to Dave's apology and witness showed kindness and self-control.

Talk with y'all tomorrow.

God Bless,

Wayne

[Fovezer]

Fovezer:  I didn't see anywhere mentioned that he was nominated for a Nobel Prize.

"Dr. Fox passed away last year (in 1998). In his career, he held audiences with the Pope (to discuss evolutionary theory) and has been nominated for the Nobel Prize." (About 3/4 the way down)

Fovezer:  What kind of evidence for the God of the Bible would be acceptable to you?

Solid, empirical evidence. Evidence evolution is false and creationism as presented in the Bible is right, and.......I don't know. Whatever you got. Remember, proving the Bible as an historical document doesn't prove a god exists.

Why do you get so offended when people say they'll pray for you, or insinuate that you are lost.  If a Muslim told me he would pray for me, I'm sure I would thank them and secretly find it very funny. I'm wondering why you're so sensitive about this.

I'm not offended. I'm just saying that there are atheists out there who do get offended by it. I don't like the insinuation that I'm lost, but it really doesn't bother me.

[Fovezer]

My dear brother Dave,

God's grace is reflected all though your post.  Thank you for inspiring me to be a better servant of our Risen Lord Jesus Christ.  I also will continue to pray for and share my thoughts with our friend Fovezer. 

Fovezer, I just stopped by the office and read the latest posts to catch up.  I will post something tomorrow in response.  I just couldn't pass up expressing my thoughts and how impressed I was that you don't hold grudges.  Your response to Dave's apology and witness showed kindness and self-control.

Talk with y'all tomorrow.

God Bless,

Wayne

Thank you, Saved By Grace, for your kind words.

[artsylady]

Fovezer:

You said solid, empirical evidence.

You know our belief system. You know basically what the Bible says about our God. I really need to know what kind of evidence you'd like to see? Would the God of the Bible have to speak directly to you? You know that is not in his nature to talk to an unbeliever. So, could you give me an example of the kind of evidence that might satisfy you.